Leo, do you think that Democrats should support right-wing economic policies?

[Basman]

6 hours ago, kbone said:

@Basman

Puritanical tendencies likely persist in US culture via values like self-reliance, moral rigor, and a strong sense of community that is often rooted in religious beliefs and the subsequent moral compass. So yeah, they often come across as thinking they know it all or are in the right (i.e., so competing ideas must be defeated), hehe. These values have been secularized and adapted from perhaps their Puritan roots, influencing American social and political life to this day. Interestingly, the individual achievement born of the sub-structure of such beliefs provides the basis for the resistance to social change that challenges the aforementioned established value system, which often take odd forms, to be sure. All-in-all, culture changes quite slowly anywhere you go, and each have their own unique stylistic tendencies that must be negotiated in one's mind if one travels to or live within it. That's kinda snorta wat the 'culture shock' models refer to when talking about adaptation. But, yes, ANY large group of 'others' with highly salient cultural features can be annoying, hehe. It's just how mind works: point of views congeal, preferences take form, arguments/blame arise, things are taken to the Nth degree, etc etc.

I'd add a lack of education to the mix as well. Americans are hardly taught how to think (as opposed to what to think) and aren't cognizant of how to control for bias.

[Joshe]

9 hours ago, Basman said:

I'd add a lack of education to the mix as well. Americans are hardly taught how to think (as opposed to what to think) and aren't cognizant of how to control for bias.

They aren't taught how to think because there's a strong demand to not think.

Here’s what might explain it:

1. Thinking can easily lead to uncomfortable questions

• “Am I living the right way?”
• “What’s the meaning of what I’m doing?”
• “Why do I believe what I believe?”
• “Could I be wrong?”

1. These aren’t just abstract questions — they threaten someone’s identity, worldview, and social standing if pursued deeply.

So for many, it’s easier to avoid the questions entirely than face the possible upheaval. 

2. Some People Don’t Know They Can Think About Life

This sounds insane, but it’s real.

• If no one models introspection…
• If your culture prizes obedience over understanding...
• If school teaches memorization, not inquiry…

Then you might go your whole life without realizing that thinking about life itself is even an option. 

3. Social Survival Prioritizes Conformity Over Thought

• If thinking leads you to a conclusion that deviates from your community, it could cost you belonging, status, or safety.
• In many environments, especially working-class or high-surveillance ones, thought is seen as deviance.
• > “Just do what you're told.”
• > “Don’t ask questions.”
• > “Stop overthinking it.”

Over time, this shapes brains that reflexively suppress depth to maintain stability.

4. For Some, “Life” Is Just a Series of Tasks

High-NFC people see life as a system to understand, optimize, and align with deeper principles.

But many see life as a treadmill: work, eat, sleep, maybe entertainment. 

So, on summary: Its either:

• Not rewarding
• Not modeled
• Not safe
• Not relevant

There are more of them than there are of us. 

[kbone]

@Basman

Sure, if we're talking about stereotypes, one could say the quality of education is sub-optimal in most cases. I've seen some more optimal outcomes and many sub-optimal cases, though a lot of it seems to be the dance that is typically required of the teachers, the students/parents, and how the system tests for 'mastery'. And, of course, there's typically a large disparity between public and private schools.

As for controlling oneself for biases, yeah, there can be a purddy strong pull towards being opinionated in the realm of social discourse, in general. Some people are more well versed in scientific rigor and may only stick to facts, in which they can come across as cold and/or unwilling to enter into simply 'opinionated' debates. Others may be unconsciously following unwritten 'rules' of social discourse in which one is taught to not discuss religion/deeply held beliefs with people they don't know (that might include speerchuality). Yet others, might be quite open to such discussions, have very little rigor with respect to their own cherished beliefs, be confrontational toward 'facts', and be very unaware that they, like everyone else, have their own opinions and experiences from/through which they are interacting. I do see that on occasion, and once I get a whiff of it, I smile inwardly or outwardly, poke around a bit on perceived edges, see what becomes of the convo, and may or may not bow out altogether. No biggie.

I tend away from unchecked stereotypes when talking about cultures involving millions of people, especially ones comprised of multi-national and/or multi-cultural constituents. It helps keep the mind's biases in check as one comes more 'naked' to the interaction. It's more like a curiosity, rather than a judging, pegging, and an eventual evaluation, which may come later, but usually in introspection.

[Breathe]

On 5/7/2025 at 5:01 AM, Emerald said:

When you have a very sophisticated and well-funded propaganda machine at your disposal, you can change people's views very quickly.

Well, that's something different entirely, but even so, a well-funded and sophisticated propaganda machine that's actually effective would take years to develop. We're dealing with people who people who have been severely brainwashed. It's not just a matter of changing a person's views, it's a matter of deprogramming and educating them.