India-Pakistan Conflict Mega-Thread

[kbone]

2 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Yes its a historical perspective you quote, but there's a critical disconnect here. Pointing fingers at other regions while glossing over the present actions of the nations involved is not helpful. Conflict is not unique to any one region. Europe, BRICS, South Asia, America, every region has war and violence in its past. The question is what is being done now to prevent the cycle from repeating? Otherwise we just repeat repeat repeat because you are focused on the past, and we already know the past.

Yes, Europe learned the hard way, but it wasn’t war that taught respect for borders because people can repeat war forever; it was the aftermath that brought respect. Institutions like the EU, linking their economies together, and diplomatic agreements or treaties created cooperation despite those tensions and pressures you describe. This isn't about one region being more moral, better or advanced; it was a conscious shift of focus toward prevention rather than escalation.

India and Pakistan get the same choice now. They either go through a decade of bloodshed, or invest in a similar framework that changed Europe. Dialogue, Cooperation, and linking their economies together. Strategy not ideology or idealism. If people want that border gone, it starts with that.

Deflecting to conflicts in Ukraine or the past wars Europe avoids the core issue: Why is a shared border still a reason for conflict between India and Pakistan? Until we focus on the real root causes of a conflict it just persists. Here mistrust, yes some historical focus germane to the local area, integration, and political brinkmanship, the cycle will persist. That’s a failure of leadership, accountability, and vision to create something better.

That's purddy dang good.

[kbone]

@Ajay0

https://www.crisisgroup.org/asia/south-asia/india-china/334-thin-ice-himalayas-handling-india-china-border-dispute

https://www.crisisgroup.org/asia/south-asia/india-pakistan-india-pakistan-kashmir/pulling-india-and-pakistan-back-brink

 

Case(s) in point...

Edited May 16 by kbone

[kbone]

On 5/15/2025 at 7:06 AM, BlueOak said:

There are a few things here.

Have you seen how fractured europe is, and how they are not constantly fighting each other? I mean there is one region in the Balkans where Russia likes to stoke trouble, and some localized issues each country faces, but for the most part we don't resort to violence. So the argument that a border on a map makes people violent never sits well with me, it's an excuse and a poor one. The people there are adults, they need to act like it, take responsibility for their own actions and stop looking 70+ years into the past if they ever want to move forward.

Then we get people saying let's dissolve borders, which while it can work, its as arbitrary a solution as making the border in the first place. Its avoiding the pressures causing the issues, the usual looking at the symptom (or a factor here) not the cause. I'm just going to say it and not sugarcoat it for all BRICS members or supporters. I don't go to my neighbour when he's doing something I don't like and tell him that we don't need this boundary or kick in his door, I wouldn't do that even if there were no police looking over my shoulder. I work it out or I live with it. Boundaries always exist, they'd exist even if we dissolved the map line, and although the expressions of violence would lessen in magnitude (a good argument), the pressures causing these issues would not disappear.

Now people will come back with all the difficulties, and i'll say YES. Its not easy. But war isn't the answer either. This goes for Russia, America, India, Pakistan, and anyone else who picks the path of a large mobilization or military action. I am not a pacifist either, and don't say violence isn't an option, but airstrikes or missile strikes over the border on a neighbouring nuclear power would be bottom of the list of things I'd be doing. - It all comes about because once again, people have been socially engineered to be authoritarian, right wing and frankly bloodthirsty, so they need large-scale scale overt 'solutions' that all they do is make these problems WORSE not better unless taken to absurd extremes.

I do like your balanced approach and the wisdom you provide for others to attempt (hopefully) to rise above the level of (the) conflict.

[zazen]

It’s a shame that Hindutva India chooses to emulate the most psychotic country in the world - Israel. Denial of investigation, collective punishment, vile comments, viewing Muslims as invaders to their land, terrorist rhetoric projected to an entire group, media echo chambering and troll armies online. Many Israeli twitter accounts spewing Zionist talking points have been busted for being Indian lol

They also have a hubris stemming from some sort of complex - and can’t assess what’s rationally in their own countries interest. Not being in good relations with al your neighbours and focusing too much on pleasing the US is dumb. It’s misaligned to geographic reality.

This is a large account with a comment mocking collective punishment:

 

Similar levels of psychopathy as Zionists.

@Ajay

This guy has some of the best analysis on geopolitics especially in the military domain: 

The threshold for war has been lowered to a dangerous level ie every time a terrorist attack happens India can just strike Pakistan. But a terrorist attack can happen independently of the Pakistani state / even if it could have origins or operated from there by non-state actors, that can’t justify two nations at a state level coming head to head.

Tick tock ..

Edited May 20 by zazen

[Rafael Thundercat]

https://overland.org.au/2025/05/the-imperative-to-condemn-and-the-politics-of-appeal-from-palestine-to-kashmir/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAachEMrGndMVbV_n-G42ds-LiZalCp8dDu1pR0t6RiMN4hnmmFqHlmo3IbSrdg_aem_sGOuUBG1hE3llvxp8OH79w