Only that which is unborn will never die

[Someone here]

Awakening to the facet of immortality and who you actually are Is very simple imo and can be done with simple logic. 

Only that which is unborn will never die . Is this clear ? Because if it dies then it wasn't eternal. It can only be eternal if it had no start in the past and therefore infinite amount of existing has already passed and it doesn't die .

So ..again..only that which was unborn shall never die .

Let's investigate what that "thing" is .

Think about it ..What was born ? 

The human body ..This person that you appear to be ..this whole universe with its origin via the big bang. Etc

All these were born ..so they will vanish eventually sooner or later.

And What was never born? What didn't have a beginning and cannot have an end ?

You should immediately see that it's Nothing . No thing . Only nothing is eternal. And therfore your true nature is nothingness. 

I hope the point I made is clear .

If you guys have any questions or objections go ahead. 

Thx. 

[Thought Art]

Logic this. You can make a sound logical argument but it doesn’t bare awakening and realization. 
 

Even saying it’s nothing because it’s unborn and doesn’t die is a finite take, a partial perspective and lacks the nuance of actual realization into immortality, infinite and reality being consciousness. 
 

Consciousness is reality, immortality, God, Truth etc. It is also “born” in finite ways when it’s taking the shape of something that is “born”. 
 

Consciousness isn’t really nothing. But it’s also not different from nothing. 
 

There’s a sneaky duality between something vs nothing in your logic as well. Which, consciousness explains very well.

Edited April 4 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

@Thought Art I don't claim to be awake . plus i clearly stated that this is a logical deduction and not an awakening to immortality. 

[Thought Art]

Enjoy your philosophizing 

[Someone here]

Just now, Thought Art said:

Enjoy your philosophizing 

Sure 

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Consciousness is reality, immortality, God, Truth etc. It is also “born” in finite ways when it’s taking the shape of something that is “born”. 
 

Consciousness isn’t really nothing. But it’s also not different from nothing. 

Consciousness is nothing .

[Ishanga]

This has been around for thousands of years, its a simplification for sure, but the essence of it is true, but at the least your saying that there is a No Thing (Shiva= That which is Not or Brahman "Ultimate Reality"), which is non physical in nature, and that there is a "Thing" or physicality as well, with No Thing or what in the west they are calling Consciousness (in the grand sense, not individual consciousness or wakefulness)being our fundamental nature or essence...

Now, how to experience this as a individual with a Body/Mind complex that identifies heavily with that complex, there are many ways to get there...Psychedelics are like a window, they allow You to take a looksee then bring You back to normal Awareness/Perception, the other ways allow You to over time stay there while being Embodied!

As well why did creation happen, why did it go from NO THING, to Some Thing?

Edited April 4 by Ishanga

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This has been around for thousands of years, its a simplification for sure, but the essence of it is true, but at the least your saying that there is a No Thing (Shiva= That which is Not or Brahman "Ultimate Reality"), which is non physical in nature, and that there is a "Thing" or physicality as well, with No Thing or what in the west they are calling Consciousness (in the grand sense, not individual consciousness or wakefulness)being our fundamental nature or essence...

Now, how to experience this as a individual with a Body/Mind complex that identifies heavily with that complex, there are many ways to get there...Psychedelics are like a window, they allow You to take a looksee then bring You back to normal Awareness/Perception, the other ways allow You to over time stay there while being Embodied!

As well why did creation happen, why did it go from NO THING, to Some Thing?

Yes nothing new under the sun . What I said is spirituality 101.  But I just thought about it carefully this evening and I thought I would share.  It's simple.  No mental gymnastics are needed . You can easily discover this fact .

As @Thought Art said..something and nothing are the same thing . Its ALL nothing but with different densities if you will.  The dream state is less dense than the waking everyday world . And the deep sleep condition is even lesser in density. 

Nothing doesn't become something. 

Nothing =Something. 

Again think about dreams at night..are they nothing or something?  I'm waiting for your answer to this question but to me the answer is it's both .

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes nothing new under the sun . What I said is spirituality 101.  But I just thought about it carefully this evening and I thought I would share.  It's simple.  No mental gymnastics are needed . You can easily discover this fact .

As @Thought Art said..something and nothing are the same thing . Its ALL nothing but with different densities if you will.  The dream state is less dense than the waking everyday world . And the deep sleep condition is even lesser in density. 

Nothing doesn't become something. 

Nothing =Something. 

Again think about dreams at night..are they nothing or something?  I'm waiting for your answer to this question but to me the answer is it's both .

Well there is lots of ways of expressing it, that is why I always say we are not able to directly discuss or use words in relation to Spirituality (which is the science of No Thing/Consciousness), but we can talk/discuss around it...

Existence goes from Subtleness to Grossness, before Subtleness is Consciousness/No Thing,  then creation, the smallest atomic particle or before that, then everything comes from that, Big Bang or whatever, then there is Us and life on this planet...What they call as Atman, is the individual soul or seed of this No Thing within all of Us, it is like the saying "A Drop of the Ocean is the Ocean itself", same applies with Atman, Brahamn or No Thing, its just we are individual bodies and minds with atman as our core nature and existence, we just have to realize it!

My dreams are not as real as my everyday life, but they are real in a way..Everything in the end is Subjective, You only experience life within Yourself, in Deep Sleep you don't experience anything so in a way then there is no existence, that can be said to be true from a Subjective POV, but objectively we know that things still exist, but this is a mental construct of sorts or a paradox...

[Thought Art]

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Consciousness is nothing .

It's not nothing.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Well there is lots of ways of expressing it, that is why I always say we are not able to directly discuss or use words in relation to Spirituality (which is the science of No Thing/Consciousness), but we can talk/discuss around it...

Existence goes from Subtleness to Grossness, before Subtleness is Consciousness/No Thing,  then creation, the smallest atomic particle or before that, then everything comes from that, Big Bang or whatever, then there is Us and life on this planet...What they call as Atman, is the individual soul or seed of this No Thing within all of Us, it is like the saying "A Drop of the Ocean is the Ocean itself", same applies with Atman, Brahamn or No Thing, its just we are individual bodies and minds with atman as our core nature and existence, we just have to realize it!

My dreams are not as real as my everyday life, but they are real in a way..Everything in the end is Subjective, You only experience life within Yourself, in Deep Sleep you don't experience anything so in a way then there is no existence, that can be said to be true from a Subjective POV, but objectively we know that things still exist, but this is a mental construct of sorts or a paradox...

Thanks .

Well..There is an old Buddhist saying " form is empty. Emptiness is form". 

It's basically pointing to the collapse of the duality between somethingness and nothingness. 

I've realized it many times.. That something and nothing are identical. Not on psychedelics. Just by observing my experience of reality and contrasting it against a dream state .

The mistake is thinking that "nothing" is some blank black void somewhere. 

No.. Everything we are experiencing all the time is precisely nothing.  It's completely hollow and unstable. No different than appearance of a Dream. 

Even scientifically speaking.. If you break down the atoms that make up the universe.. You will get waves of energy. Break down the energry and you get nothingness .  We know now through quantum physics that the universe is literally made out of nothing. 

[Ishanga]

The biggest gripe I have with ppl around here is this denial of Creation, and Absolutism its all or nothing..

Your using a material object to post and reply and participate in this forum, but Your denying the very thing Your doing and using, too insane for me lol!

[Thought Art]

@Ishanga No, forget particles and big bangs. That's all back story. 

It's really just consciousness. It's not nothing.

It's just consciousness and God. All this other stuff like "It's nothing" or "It's particals and big bangs, and then people and then this" is all back story and dream stuff.

 

Edited April 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The biggest gripe I have with ppl around here is this denial of Creation, and Absolutism its all or nothing..

Your using a material object to post and reply and participate in this forum, but Your denying the very thing Your doing and using, too insane for me lol!

(I may have misunderstood you lol)

We are not denying Creation, but you are not grasping the paradoxical nature of Creation which I for one, point too.

The paradox is profound. 

Leo explains it better than I..

Something like God had to create itself before it existed. Because, even non-existence and before God was always actually a part of God. God created itself with literally nothing. God had to create itself before it existed. God Created itself.

This stupid buddhist framing of "Nothing".. Yeah, thats nice but it's just a facet. 

Pointing to nothingness I think it important. But, when you look at your hands and the room you are in, which is this. Which is something, i guess you could say... The actual qualia and subjective experience you have is God. It's not nothing. It's God. God is a shape shifter. Compared to an object it's nothing because it has no finite qualities, except paradoxically when it does. 

So, you could say reality is nothing, but nothing is paradoxically something. 

Edited April 5 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The biggest gripe I have with ppl around here is this denial of Creation, and Absolutism its all or nothing..

Your using a material object to post and reply and participate in this forum, but Your denying the very thing Your doing and using, too insane for me lol!

No one has found creation..it's just the five sense giving you input from what seems to be an external world .

People  have seen, heard, smelled, touched and tasted. Then added the idea and names of things to make "sense" of senses.

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

It's not nothing.

It certainly is radical. But Stacking labels onto nothing.. and it still ends up being nothing. THIS is utterly unknowable.It can't be pinned down because it's already everything & nothing.  

Its like trying to sit on a cloud..or catch a fart in the wind.

[Thought Art]

@Someone here Yeah? Well, look at your hands. Look at the room around you. 

You're just ignoring what is obvious. Consciousness.

Ironically, labelling actuality "Nothingness"

Edited April 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

This stupid buddhist framing of "Nothing".

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Something like God had to create itself before it existed. Because, even non-existence and before God was always actually a part of God. God created itself with literally nothing. God had to create itself before it existed. God Created itself.

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

It's not nothing. It's God.

You fail to realize that this is a koan you've created, which points to nothing.

Sound of one hand clapping.

Sound of a tree falling with no one around to hear it.

Sound of God creating itself before it existed?

[Thought Art]

@Osaid Consciousness. Pure Being. Now. 

You could say it's nothing. But, You could say it's something.

You could be wrong, you could be right.

You Are. 

Edited April 5 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Someone here Yeah? Well, look at your hands. Look at the room around you. 

You're just ignoring what is obvious. Consciousness.

Ironically, labelling actuality "Nothingness"

Like you said: something = Nothingness. You just need to recontextualize how you view physical reality (aka consciousness) to realize first-hand this Truth.

I'm not saying consciousness does not exist . I'm saying consciousness is nothing.