snowleopard

@Phill Be a clear and constant example of the change you desire to see ... like the northern star, ever-silent, others will either seek it out and follow it, or not, if they are so inclined.

@Shanmugam Thanks for playing ... And now, switching dreamworlds, some self-identification as some body in need of a sleep is slipping in _/\_

@Shanmugam Your answer was clear ... and your command of english as a second language is admirable. These queries could be considered as simply rhetorical, but can there be a state wherein all one sees in others is an individuated expression of Awareness -- for lack of a better name for that which defies all names -- self-identifying as something else in lieu of that?

You seem to have mistaken me for 'someone' who is looking for complete answers

@Ibn Sina There will always be something to offend, until the fixated self-identification as someone who is offended falls away.

@Shanmugam Rephrasing the question, would you agree that so-called enlightenment is the falling away of all fixated self-identification, not only the 'someone' who is not getting it, but the 'someone' who is getting it? As well, does there not seem to be in these discussions a lot of self-identification as 'someone' who is subject to the judgements of other self-identities?

@Shanmugam Can there be a falling away of all fixated self-identities, such as someone who is subject to not getting it, and yes, someone who is getting it?

@Kevin Dunlop As long as there persists a exclusive self-identification as someone subject to 'bad times' from 'out there' then this will seem problematic. As that self-identity reactor is dispelled, so will its interpretation of 'bad times' from 'out there'.

@Shanmugam Then the nomenclature an enlightened 'person' would be an oxymoron, as a 'person' can only be in relation to 'other-than-person', aka a duality -- however illusory it may be.

For the philosophically inclined, some may find this discussion worth a listen, touching on how psychedelics and idealism inform each other. https://thethirdwave.co/bernardo-kastrup/

@MarkusSweden As nothing is precluded to the self-perpetuating Dream, as it conjures up any individual, and the illusion of time, why couldn't it play out countless variations on any given theme, in perpetuity?

Given the apparent demise of the prevailing patriarchal paradigm, now beckoning an alternative mythos upon which to base a newborn collective ethos, this interview with Kavitha Chinnaiyan, author of Shakti Rising: Embracing Shadow and Light on the Goddess Path to Wholeness, may be of some interest, if so inclined ...

Emptifullji

For the sake of this relational experience, the apparent Divine individuation into loci of Awareness may well be our destiny. However, I'd suggest don't even succumb to a fixated attachment as some 'authentic' self-identity ... or even 'enlightened' for that matter. These are just further handicaps to freedom. Ironically enough, even attachment to identifying as 'someone-who-is-liberated' is an obstacle. Ultimately abandon all such fixated self-identification. This does not preclude Divine individuation, it just frees it up to serve the integral function it is designed to serve, without the burden of having to be a 'better' exclusive self-identity vs all those 'lesser' ones -- just masks to be donned and discarded depending on the situation, without the notion that the dream is not a dream.

@MarkusSweden I like the idea of being flexible and adaptable with the role-playing. It feels so much more freeing and creative. There's nothing innately problematic with that. What seems problematic is fixated, exclusive identification as that role. Maya can just be Lila dancing at the masquerade ball of emptifullness.

@egoless In ontology, at some point, one has to draw the line at further reduction, otherwise it just becomes a problem of infinite regression. Even if the model is materialism, there has to be some baseline, some principle source that doesn't come from some other source -- although materialist physicists really have no idea what that is exactly, having reduced it to a wave function within a quantum vacuum, nothing more than a mathematical deduction. In Idealism, that principle source is Mind at large, or Cosmic Consciousness. It is called the ontological primitive. In spiritual/religious terms, this then becomes the principle Being, which goes by various names of choice. It then depends on which metaphysics is preferred. However, again, no name can really suffice here, except insofar as it must be named to talk about it.

Go with whatever name for the unnameable you prefer ... as long as one knows 'that ' which is being referred to ... at which point call it the cat's pajamas for all I care.

@egoless As it has no point of origin or causation, how could it not exist? It's All that is, ever has been, ever will be. To ask why, is to assume that it once didn't exist, and somehow came into existence. It has never not existed. 'Why' is forever a moot point. Better to ponder what can appear from it.

Thought of suicide is an attempt at avoidance. There is no avoiding or escaping from this 'dark night of the soul' -- not even in death of the body-form. The soul will remain, and its shadow will follow it. The darkness is an invitation to investigate it. The more it is avoided, the more insistent it will become, until it is investigated full on, no matter how the body-form may be disposed of. Let the shadow be the guide to the light which exposes the segregated self-identity at the source of all suffering, so that it can be dispelled. Then the body-form is no burden, but just a suit for exploring this relational experience, shadow-free.

@Nathan The path to freedom is the unentangling of the apparent exclusive segregated self-identity and its various chains of attachments. Meanwhile, life will kick its sorry suffering ass from path to path.

@Galyna The present is the only moment there is. It is inescapable. Can a moment be found that is not present? Any thought or feeling about past or future can only be happening or felt now. Any absence of such a thought or feeling can only be absent now. It is sheer emptifullness.

@solr If one is aware of such negative behaviour and yet still indulging it, then it would seem that there is still some deeply buried shadow/fear issues that need to be resolved. In this you are far from alone. This process is unavoidably painful and emotionally disturbing, and extremely difficult to face without some effective healing modality. While psychedelic-assisted modalities can be very effective in facilitating this process, there are certainly other ways and means to investigate, and each individual may find one or another more uniquely suited to their situation. However, there is no way or path to bypass this process. I can only suggest that you search out and explore the various modalities, until finding one that works for you. As always, do careful research, and seek support from those who have gone through the particular process. This is not something to be undertaken in some cursory way. Above all, keep an open mind and heart, and know that the freedom of Love is not only possible, but ultimately one's only destiny, however long the road may seem.

I can now see what Emerald meant by saying that 'patriarchy' is one of those trigger words that gets folks riled up. I suppose that the more apropos descriptor might have been to refer to a shift away from a yang-oriented paradigm. This was not meant to imply that yin is better or more preferable than yang, but rather that one can tend to be in a more emphasised aspect or phase, at any given time, and to suggest that it is the natural way of phenomenal systems to alternate between the two poles of the yang-yin dynamic. And thus, it is just this intuitive observation that the social paradigm is currently shifting from a yang orientation to a more yin-based one, while at the same time being entirely interdependent. However, the notion that this is a good or a bad thing is highly relative and subjective. I have no vested interest in prioritising or privileging or protecting either integral aspect.

What about the problem with dreaming that the dream is not a dream?

@Leo Gura Yeah, it's just this intuitive perspective. I could be misreading the situation. We'll see.