Frylock

We need to abolish these stupid terms like "incel". When we bring light to this kind of thing, it only builds momentum. That type of cult thinking and poisoned hivemind just needs to die already.

You're still not explaining what type of behaviors you're actually doing. Don't be a cold fish. That's a reaction, and not the way to go. But don't be needy and overbearing, and give your loyalty before anyone has done anything to really earn it.

You don't have compassion and support for yourself. You can't expect it from others if you don't have it for yourself. I think there's something skewed in how you're going about "giving compassion". This could mean anything. Are you being needy and overbearing? What exactly are you doing, and expecting in return? Being ice cold and detached is a reaction. Observe your behavior and respond and calibrate accordingly before reacting on negative emotions.

I don't get it. What are you needing from women that you can't already give yourself? If you can't have compassion and love for yourself, then you can't expect to share it with others and also be able to get it in return.

There's a myth that your gotta be aloof and full of yourself so you can get women. Yes, you can attract women that way. But it's so surface level and basic. The men who I have seen succeed the most with women are highly empathetic, loving, and self-aware and don't bullshit themselves and others. But they also know how to apply pressure and escalate, which are things assholes also know how to do which "nice guys" don't, which is the most important aspect for seducing. Women go for the assholes because they're the only ones making a move. But deep down, a man who is also empathetic and soft but knows how to be assertive is what most women really want. Sorry.. I just see the "Be detached! Be uncaring! Be confident and full of yourself!" thing thrown around a lot. And while it means well and is a counterbalance to the nice guy tendencies, it's also very misguiding and not the be all. Women will see through it after a while, and I think it's misguided advice.

Women do want nice guys. Women do not want men who can't apply pressure or know how to make a move; this isn't exclusive to nice or mean. For someone who has supposedly slept with 200 women, you sure seem ignorant to the actual nuances of attraction.

Women don't flock, period. Unless you're famous or something. The arrogant guy just knows how to make a move... but a humbled guy who knows how to make a move is just as effective and isn't shunned simply for being a grounded person.

You don't need to be a self-absorbed arrogant asshole to make a woman feel desired. You said it yourself: you were respectful but still know how to make a move. I've already said those are key elements. Being a self-absorbed asshole and thinking that's the lone attractive quality that makes the difference is absolutely, completely wrong. You still have to approach and make a move, clearly you're forgetting that. No one just flocks to you because you feel arrogant. And no one truly likes to be around selfish people, man or woman.

The two I would most recommend by far are James Marshall and Tony Solo. They distill the message of pickup beyond just surface level, especially Tony. It has much more to do with inner game, meditation, awareness, and spirituality. They're also good to learn from if you tend to be more introverted and low energy, like me. Learning from them has provided me the biggest leaps when it comes to attraction. Corey Wayne is good for basic ideas and principles, but I'd move on to Tony Solo and James Marshall for a much deeper and psychological understanding.

Empathy alone won’t attract girls, but it will boost a man’s perceived value. Empathy is just being able to realize the person's headspace and being aware of her surroundings and mood. Women greatly appreciate a man who “gets” them in that sense. A man who is able to correctly perceive emotions and respond accordingly to a woman and her emotional needs will be perceived as a higher status male, and shows that you have calibrated social acuity. Those are attractive traits to have in a partner. The idea of “being confident” to attract a partner is also a bit misguided. No one is 100% confident all of the time. Even when I’m in my peak states and success is happening for me, I know that things can change on a dime. Even when I’m talking to a girl, I might not be feeling good inside. I might be nervous, or feeling down about something. But the core confidence is being able to accept whatever happens, being able to be present and observe what is happening in the moment without reacting to it. Even in states of not feeling good, if you’re present with it and maybe even call it out, then this is genuine.

Great sex and attractive personality traits aren’t exclusive to assholes. Again, the main difference is that assholes know how to apply pressure and physically escalate. If a guy can’t do those two things, then he’s not getting any women. Putting on an aloof facade because you think it's what women want, or that you have to be some kind of comedian entertainer, is horribly misguiding.

Don't rely on it. It's a market heavily favored in the girls' power. Near impossible for any dude to date "up" on those things.

Looks do matter, at least to some degree. Regardless of the amount of physically attractive women dating less physically attractive men (men do this too, you know), looks are still important if you want to go out and attract new partners. Looks will get you in the door, but of course you have to have more substance than your looks. If you're all looks and no substance, no one wants that. This doesn't mean you have to be a model. More important than anything else is your style and the way you dress. Women understand that we're in a social matrix, and a man who has a good sense of style (not necessarily fashion) and gives off a particular masculine archetype are going to do more for her emotions than some average looking dude wearing a baggy tee and cargo shorts. I've had women approach me and compliment my style far more than any physical trait I was born with. So yes, looks matter. But more important than that is how you make the woman feel beyond just your looks.

It's a cult that promotes free thinking and self-reliance, which ironically is uncultish. It's a counter cult? Anti cult?

The older people in my family, and my friends who are older (when I say older, I generally think 50+ years old) have pretty much been the same for most of their lives. Still going through the same life worries, still closed-minded, still spiritually "poor" i.e. not very high on the conscious scale. This worries me in a way. I can't imagine going another 20, 30 years with very little actualization growth in my life. And yet most of the people that I know, from my perspective, remain in the same rut for the rest of their lives. To me, that seems like hell. I don't want to be stuck in neutral. I know it's not my place to judge others and where they're at in life. But still... I feel bad about how stunted and closed minded people are for very long periods of time.

Yeah. I just want to make a difference in every girl's life that I have had relations with, no matter how small. Or even just people who have opened up to me. I'll never be able to save anyone, or vice versa. But I can operate from a place of unattached love and compassion. That just feels right for me.

I recently came across an old lover of mine. I used to really like this girl, but she had addiction problems and would go AWOL with some bad people. Anyways, she was opening up to me about her current boyfriend... how he doesn't care for her despite her trying to be his everything. How he's unkempt (barely showers), lazy, and how she tries to "fix" him. She showed me a picture of him, and he's a grotesque overweight man. She said he's been talking to other girls behind her back, and that broke her. Here you have a very beautiful woman, with an unattractive man with not many redeeming qualities at this point, and she's pouring her heart out to me and crying, saying how he doesn't love her as much she does him. This really fucked with my psyche. I know both men and women make the mistake of trying to "fix" someone, because of some disturbing emotional needs, insecurities, etc. She told me she dated down because it made her feel more valuable. I don't know... this just really disturbs me. I guess because I don't look for a partner to fix, or one to fix me. I think that's such an unhealthy balance. To see an old flame of mine so heart stricken, completely unable to see her own value, beauty, and worth... it was heart wrenching for me. But that's just the way it goes I guess.

What are some ways to build up mental toughness? I hate to say it, but I'm mentally weak right now. So far, I know doing the following things on a consistent basis will help me become stronger: -Meditation -Cold showers -Spending time in nature -Working out -Pickup/social freedom exercises Any other ideas?

Pretty much everyone has bad experiences with rejection. But I will say, those reactions by guys were over the top and childish. Hopefully men in their 20s aren't going to act like children, and if they do, they're just stupid idiots not even worth the time.

I don't know why women feel like the guy always has to do the initiation. Out of the few times women have approached or initiated me, I greatly respected them for it. Any normal guy should too.

Probably. I'm going based off exactly what she told me... that she thought she could fix him. I don't know the dynamics more than that, but that's just unhealthy and disempowering. I hear you. I only ran into her at a house party, so I doubt I'll see her again. I do give people who open up to me the time of day. Not for any selfish or white knight reasons... I can never "save" anyone from their pain. It just doesn't work that way. I just needed to share this, get it off my chest. I've never seen someone devalue themselves to the degree that this woman has, and since I have that old connection with her, it does disturb me in a way. I'll get over it... I just hate to see this kind of thing.

Anyone else snicker when you hear someone say that? Ain't nothing is serious.

Most times this is said, people aren't in critical danger. Even then, nope.... Still not serious.

I don't think enlightenment means total "fuck you" to society and our systematic ways. You can still have a family, love one another, and enjoy life for what it is.

Isolation gives you time to reflect, contemplate, slow down, and look at life objectively without being caught in the whirlwind of social games. This is why it can be helpful for self-development, so long as you have some basic level understanding of awareness and introspection.