Forestluv

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Mu!

I would imagine scuba diving is more dangerous than psychedelics.

Studies have consistently shown that psychedelics are amoung the least dangerous substances to the user and to others. Alcohol is amoung the most dangerous, An example of one such study below. In general, people should be far more concerned about alcohol consumption than psychedelic consumption. Furthermore, clinical studies are consistently showing statistically-significant positive effects for psychedelic therapy. Regarding relative experience: most people that do an Ayahuasca retreat think and feel it was the most profound spuritual experience of their lives. Of course, precautions should be taken when introducing psychedelics into one’s spiritual paractice - yet percautions should also be taken when one adding yoga or running into one’s spiritual practice. Regarding my direct experience: I have drank alcohol over 50 times, I have run over 50 marathons and I have tripped over 50 times. I would put the danger level of psychedelics closer to the dangers of marathon running than alcohol consumption.

IME, spiritual practice + psychedelics has led to more progress in two years than 20 years of spiritual practice without psychedelics. I’m curious about your direct experience with using psychedelics for spirituality.

Sounds like a good trip in which you entered a nondual state. Psychedelics can be a powerful spiritual tool and can be difficult to integrate. Regarding dosage: tolerance skyrockets the first day. Although you only did 20ug and didn’t feel anything, it knocked the 2nd day effective dose down to around 110ug.

I’d do 100ug.

Depends on your intention. 100ug is a standard dose for novices.

I like Sakura’s chakra control

For me, that type of energy often boils down to subconscious insecurities.

Nice report! It sounds like a profound trip with ego death and rebirth. I’ve had similiar blackout periods during peaks. I get bumned out because it feels like I missed something. Yet, awareness while coming down is really insightful into egoic structure, empathy and oneness.

@MM1988 This gets to the heart of choice. As you said, sometimes thoughts just seem to appear from nowhere. Yet other times there seems to be a “chooser” in control. I’ve done meditation sessions in which I look for a “chooser”. I haven’t found one. Also consider: if brain activity scans could identify your thoughts before you were aware of them, would that influence your view?

@Joseph Maynor I general, I’m getting a sense of how people *should* behave. A sense of rules to act the “right” way. That’s just what is arising in me. You may not intend it that way, yet I can see how someone would be impacted that way.

I know you are very introspective and do a lot of self inquiry. I’m curious: from where do these *shoulds* arise? Are these *shoulds* objective and universal?

@Misagh From one perspective, spirituality is like fluency in a language. I’m a native English speaker and it’s pretty obvious to me that I’m fluent in English. Moreover, I’m fluent in “proper” English. The assumption that my form of English is “right” was a barrier to exploring deeper levels of English. If I’m already fluent in the “proper” form of English, then other perspectives of English are incorrect and don’t apply to me. Challenging and letting go of this belief opened up a whole new world of experience with English. I’ve traveled to many countries and have been exposed to various dialects and forms of English that I never knew existed. My favorite is a Kriol English spoken in the villages of Belize. It is sooo beautiful. It flows like music. You may be fluent in a form of spirituality similiar to how you are fluent in a form of English. If you want to stay within your form of spirituality, fine. Just like it’s fine to stay with one’s form of English. Some people fluent in a form of English have no interest in learning another form - that’s great for them. Other people want to explore various forms - that’s great for them. Just consider that each of us may not be fluent in all forms of spirituality - just like no one is fluent in all forms of English. When someone presents themself as *My form of English is the only form of English and it applies to everyone*, they may appear naive to someone fluent in another form of English. This is just the one perspective - it’s not the entirely true. Yet neither is any other perspective. You will likely get varios perspectives that may be helpful.

That’s a good point. My job security allows me to pursue spirituality without stress. It’s easy for me to say all we want is in the moment, because I have an easy life now. Regarding success: I earn an average salary in the U.S. More important to me was job autonomy, security and time off. I’m liw stress and have a lit of time fir spirituality. Yet what is “success” depends on the person.

Yes, Wiber is stage Yellow. It is a very high level. But it is much easier to claim Yellow super status online than it is to claim a UFC belt.

A couple years ago, I had the same question. I was debating wether to grow my own shrooms or go with 4-Aco-Dmt. I read a good amount of discussion on a few forums - looking for people who had experience with both. In the end, it seemed like differences reported were mostly subjective and that the two are very closely related. I decided on 4-aco for the convenience. It’s worked great for me. There are many different research chemicals with moderately different effects. For me, a variety of psychedelics have broadened the direct experience

It doesn't seem like you have direct experience with deeper levels. You speak through ideas and concepts, not through direct experience. Ideas are no substitute for direct experience. Some 5-meo-dmt would dismantle your entire fortress. Just me 2 cents

I think SD is a fun game. A puzzle or like figuring out WWII strategy. It’s got some good life lessons but nothing that couldn’t be taught outside a hierarchy. Stuff like rational, relative and systems thinking is often philosophized outside of SD. But when we add in a hierarchy and some egos - watch out. At first, everyone wants a Turquoise ribbon. Then too many people have Turquoise ribbons and they aren’t so special anymore - so let’s create new levels - coral and teal. Now *those* ribbons are special - until a bunch of wannabes claim them. I think some guy has come out with six new higher levels. For some people, it’s like a game of candy crush. “I gotta reach SD level 42 before my sister does! She’s gonna be so jealous!” ?

@Misagh You just double-downed on coceptualuzing. It seems like you believe them. Reagardless of how nuanced, deep and sophisticated the ideas are, they are just ideas. Journey to the place beyond language and thought. A place with no distinctions. When you return you will realize all these ideas have no more relevance than a bird chirp. You will smile and know a new freedom.

I think it would be funny to make certified Yellow level medallions.

Indeed. It begs the question: what is of value? Is Yellow level thinking of more value than champion-level UFC fighting? Who is a greater genuis Mozart or Einstein?

Below is some of my contemplation related to Ken Wilber's concept of pre/trans rational fallacy. Imagine experiencing a mixture of sensations within your mind-body. This isn't standard emotions. It's more nuanced. Is a sense of wonder an "emotion"? Are intrigue and intuition "emotions"? And how does one describe wonder, curiosity and intuition as a single integrated experience? Language is highly evolved for reason, yet poorly evolved for post-rational experiences. When we introspect, we may struggle to make sense of an integrated experience. A person may ponder: "I think I feel intrigue, but not really - it's more like wonder. Yet are those different? There is a sense of innocence, would that make it more like wonder? There may also be some intuition, but I don't really understand what intuition is. Maybe I should just call it an energy". With logic, we can describe gravity and send shuttles into outer space. Yet in spite of our intimate relationship with our personal experience, we are unable to use logic to describe our integrated experience of a few sensations. How might an integrated sensory event be experienced and expressed within a trans-rational consciousness? A rational person can only reference a pre-rational consciousness, since they have not yet transcended rationality. A rational person may think of a pre-rational child in a candy store - the child has a combination of excitement, urgency and desire. The child does not think about this rationally - the child simply experiences and expresses this combination of sensations. This is easy for a rational person to imagine. Thus, they may assume that a trans-rational expression would simply be the pre-rational child expression. Yet, is this the pre/trans fallacy eloquently described by Ken Wilber? (linked below). For example, a rational thinker misunderstands the trans-rational Buddhist view of emptiness as meaning a pre-rational sense of emptiness. A rational thinker assumes a pre-rational understanding because they have not yet transcended rationality. As western culture evolves toward a trans-rational consciousness, perhaps we will be more open to learning from other highly-evolved cultures and mystics that have existed throughout history. Perhaps new words will arise to describe integrated experiences, such as the combination of wonder, intrigue and intuition. Perhaps, a dozen new words for intuition will arise to communicate the various nuances and subtitles of intuition. Or perhaps a trans-rational consciousness will go beyond thoughts and words. This may involve a higher level of awareness and depth than that of a pre-rational child. This could be expressed to others via energy, motion and empathy. Perhaps the receiver will have an empathetic knowing without the need to interpret. To a rational thinker, these ideas are irrational "whoo whoo". Yet in a trans-rational collective consciousness, it is easy to imagine. You may say I'm whoo-whoo But I'm not the only one I hope some day you'll join us And consciousness will be as One Imagine there's a trans-rational consciousness. It's easy if you try.

@Misagh These are great concepts. Be aware they are just concepts. Be aware if you believe them to be true. When you do, let go of the attachment so you may expand.