Forestluv

It’s not a psychedelic thing. I was just using that as an example. Neither of us is right or wrong - we are just on different “wavelengths”.

Of course. When direct experience of actuality is revealed, the self will try to claim some ownership and identify. This is commonly seen with psychedelics in which one jumps up a conscious level or two temporarily. When the minds drops back down a conscious level, the mind may identify and contextualize it. That is a totally normal part of the integration process. To discard the higher level direct experience without integration is absurd, ime. I would have discarded 95% of my expansive insights. There is no problem with a mind-body feeling pleasure - when there is awareness of the psychological movement. And concepts are often useful after a direct experience. Notice how connected aakash and I were regarding the direct experience. Words helped us connect the direct experience. Words can be very useful. And sometimes it’s fun to celebrate a breakthrough and have fun with it. Getting too serious about being spiritually correct can be a hindrance at times.

Different things. What you say has value, yet so do these other “realms”, insights - whatever you you want to call them. Calling it Turquoise makes it a bit easier to communicate in certain contexts. Notice how aakash and I connected here. Regarding your point, it’s not so much learning and knowledge, it is attachment to knowledge that is the bigger issue - especially when that knowledge attachment is within the psychological self.

Haha, yes. But we can say to each other “psst, psst. . . over here. . .” As well, you won’t be able to explain it to someone in their logical terms. Notice how the two of us are using words to connect with each other on a nonverbal direct experience. Notice how that won’t work with beings that don’t have the direct experience.

@Aakash Getting the first good look at a Turquoise room is the toughest. You may start to develop an intuitive sense when one is around. Intuition is a core Turquoise mode of being. This is why observing attachment to thoughts is so important - even subtle attachments. They are distractions from developing other modes of being - like the intuitive mode. Without thought attachments, intuition (and other modes) are free to develop.

@Aakash ??? Yes. Fun stuff, isn’t it? ? Yet it is only one room. There are many other Turquoise rooms. I’m still discovering new ones.

@Aakash You just entered a Turquoise room that you were wondering about last week. Welcome. ?

Very nice observation. Grade A awareness ?

Then why call it the the feeling of “I”. Are you trying to explain the essence of an illusory “I” in general?

I agree with your last post and see a lot of value in it. Yet on this point, that is not what I am speaking of. Yes, it can be seen as a concept and yes it is a concept. Yet it is also a non-concept in the present moment. The pure awareness without concepts is certainly “prior” to concepts, yet what I am pointing to is not quite that. One might think “We’ll that’s just another concept” - and yes it is. Yet if a mind becomes fixated on that conceptual component it will not get the direct experience of the non-conceptual component. The mind may think once again “we’ll thats just another concept” and will not be able to receive the direct experience. The only way I know here to transmit is through words/concepts. So if one dismisses it all as concepts there is no vehicle to transmit. That is why I’m saying the direct experience in the present is so important. In real life, it may be possible to transmit non-verbally and non-conceptually. Yet I haven't developed those skills well and I certainly wouldn’t be able to do it non-conceptually on a textual forum like this. That’s why I avoid pointing to this on the forum. It’s clear that my efforts here will fail. It can lead to confusion and be distracting. In real life, I think the chances are higher to stimulate the direct experience in another, or at least plant a seed. Person to person includes a much wider range of communication modes. Yet the only people I’ve met with understanding in this “facet” are those with prior direct experience, which is extremely rare.

This is a very common question with meditators. Ime, trying to stop thoughts is counter-productive. Notice if you are getting immersed in thoughts. When thinking arises, do you find you self immersed in thinking and “snap out of it”? Or are you an observer, just observing? Imagine you are meditating in silence and then road construction noise started outside. This would be distracting, yet would you find it bothersome? Would you consider the sound impulses in your brain to be “chaos”? How could you sit in peace with this background noise? Perhaps consider thoughts to be background chatter or a storm that arises. Calmly recognize that a storm has arisen in the mind. Your awareness does not need to go outside and engage in the storm. It can go deeper inside. There, it can look outside the window and observe the storm - in peace. As well, it can be aware of things inside your home while the storm is ongoing outside. After a while, you may not even notice the storm, or the storm will die down. As well, you may get curious how the storm arose. Where does this storm of thoughts arise from? Just keep coming back inside to home and observe - whether or not it’s stormy outside.

From a physical perspective there is no boundary that separates your body from your environment. It is just a subjective sense and idea. If you look very closely there is no separation with the body and environment - it is just a practical concept that comes in handy to function in the world. When we look closely, your body is a continuation with the environment. There is no separation. It just feels that way and the mind has been conditioned to believe it. That is a deeper question. The mind may think: “OK, I am not what I have been calling the “body”. Yet I am something. And that something is dependent on what I call the body”. It certainly seems that something will end when the body dies. What ends? It’s a question humans have pondered for thousands of years. The deepest truth is revealed in your own direct experience, not what someone else tells you it should be based on their direct experience. Others have value, yet your direct experience is the deepest.

If you are a collection of neurons, are you also the cells that communicate with those neurons? For example, blood vessels supply oxygen and nutrients to your brain. Are not these blood vessels also your body and you? Don't worry about right and wrong. What does it seem like to you?

How is the bacteria in your gut not your body and “you”? That bacteria is communicating with your brain and influencing your thoughts and emotions - like neurons in your brain are influencing thoughts and emotions. Are the neurons in your brain part of your body and “you”?

@Aakash Could the ego be trying to take ownership of a feeling by labeling it the “feeling of I”? Seems like a sneaky way for the ego to keep itself relevant and in the game.

Are the billions of microbes within your skin also your body? Also consider that the bacteria in your gut have a direct pipeline to communicate with your brain. They influence your brain’s activity, thoughts and emotions. Your brain also sends signals to your gut to regulate that bacteria community. Are these bacteria part of your body? Do you identify with these bacteria as “me”?

This is so true. I lived with local families in Honduras and Guatemala for a month - immersed in their culture and learning their language. Beautiful people with other perspectives of life. I highly recommend it.

The passage on Love and Sorrow is so profound. It helped me grow through a few difficult times.

@Anirban657 Where is the exact point your external environment ends and your body begins?

I have no recollection of anything during the main peak time. Perhaps there may be some subconscious effects, yet I don’t resonate with those trips. They are still intense tho and take time to recover.

@kieranperez “Can you elaborate more on what you mean by this and what you’re referring to?” I was referring to the development stages of medication, therapy and spirituality. Many wealthier countries such as the U.S. have invested enormous amounts of money, time and effort into the development of prescription drugs. It’s got conflict of interests with profit motives, yet a lot of resources have been put into research and design of medication. Therapy also has a long history and has the support of academic institutions and health insurance companies. The health-care industry is fueled by medication. . . Psychedelic research is lagging way behind - mainly due to its schedule 1 status, social sigma and restrictions on research. As a researcher, I can easily order enough Mercury to wipe out everyone in the town I live in. I could have it by next Thursday. Yet I can’t order a tiny amount if LSD to make a single fruit fly trip. I would have to secure a large grant and go through a couple years worth of approval applications and then comply with draconian oversight. Then a single hits worth of acid would cost hundreds of dollars. There is a lot of resistance against psychedelic research. The first cellular biology article just came out last summer. Regarding my comments on how far a person can fall and still protect the ego, I didn’t phrase it very well and I appreciate your thoughts. There are a lot of mind’s that have undergone trauma, injuries, have biochemical imbalances and abnormally wired circuitry. That’s a heavy burden to carry and I don’t have direct experience with that. I’ve had fleeting episodes, yet not at the level I’ve seen in others. Sometimes I rely too heavily on my own direct experience and unintentionally neglect to include the direct experience of certain groups. My comments didn’t properly include a portion of the population and I appreciate you bringing attention to that and offering your own direct experience ?

That is so awesome to read. You are radiating and I can feel it. Nice work and thank you for writing a trip report ? ❤️

30mg plugged. I have a tight window of whiteing out at breakthrough, yet I held on to this one and it was extremely powerful. And I was somehow able to integrate it.

That’s a good question. It’s been a while since I was in that dynamic. I’m trying to remember what it was about them. I think it was complicated with various aspects - in terms of just the narcissism, it had something to do with seeking attention and approval from them. I remember them manipulating this - like really badly. I remember wondering a lot if they really cared about me or not. Also, there was an aspect of suffering to them I wanted to help. I wanted to help them see within themselves various blocks and defenses so they could heal inner turmoil. Yet they had no interest in looking at this and used as a weapon. In a weird way, we also had a type of magic. As unhealthy as one side was, the other side was unbelievably beautiful magic.