Emerald

Member
 View profile  See their activity

  • Content count

    7,022

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Emerald

  1. Posted

    @Natasha Tori Maru It's definitely super important as we age to maintain social connection.

    Oftentimes, when we're younger, we can identify with being a loner or have a romanticized notion around hyper-independence. I used to do that as a teenager quite a lot, where I wanted to embody this notion of the deep loner that no one understands.

    But the irony, is that I was the MOST connected to others at that time. I could just convince myself that I was a loner because I really enjoyed my solitary time where I was just contemplating or painting.

    But then, when I was 20, and I was actually genuinely quite alone in the world to the point where, if I went missing, no one would know I was gone for quite some time. And I realized that I was only able to identify with being a loner type because I was getting my social needs met.

    So, that was quite humbling to me in that identity. Knocked me off my special loner identity high horse real quick.

    But social connection is something that gets more difficult to come by as we age.

    So, while we can afford to devalue connection in our youth (because of the greater abundance of connection opportunities), we can't afford to devalue it in our later years... or we'll end up isolated and in a very precarious position. That's doubly so if we need care in our old age.

  3. Posted

    5 hours ago, aurum said:

    That makes sense, I can see how that would be healing.

    I think that's where we're different though. Connection seems to be a higher value for you. 

    Connection is a basic human need, just like food and water.

    We're evolutionarily wired for it as humans have never survived in isolation at any point in human history prior to the past 50 years or so.

    So, even if one doesn't value it consciously or identifies as a loner... the need is still there, and the lack of it takes a toll.

  4. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    I just had another exchange on here about the importance of men integrating their Feminine side. And I figured I should better clarify what I mean when I say that.

    First off, it's important to note that you cannot add nor take away Femininity or Masculinity from yourself. They are basically the Yin and Yang of your personalties... and are innate to your core nature.

    You either have the option to repress and reject one or both. Or you have the option to embrace and integrate one or both.

    And if a man represses his Feminine side, his Feminine side doesn't diminish or go away. It actually comes through unconsciously to him... in its lower expressions, where a man with a repressed Feminine side might be more fragile, emotional, petty, bitter, catty, etc.

    Think about Incels. They are poster-children for Feminine repression. But you can see all of these Shadow Feminine qualities coming through in their demeanor, as they are possessed by their Feminine side... as that's what happens when a quality gets repressed.

    In contrast, if a man integrates his Feminine side he becomes warmer, more flexible, more socially adept, more attuned to his body, more mature, and more emotionally intelligent... as the positive expressions of the Feminine shine through. The positive Feminine is about softness, connection, people skills, connection to the body, and connection to the emotions.

    And when people think about some of these positive qualities like social skills and attunement to the body, they attribute them to being Masculine on a cultural level. For example, going to the gym is through of as culturally Masculine

    But attunement to the body and building more physical prowess is archetypally Feminine... and a reflection of Yin.

    And that's because the Masculine is more about abstraction and the mind and all things non-physical... while the Feminine is about concreteness and all things physical... including the body.

    So, it must be understood that an attractive guy is very well-integrated with his Feminine side.

    And one thing that I see is that, the more resistant a man is to the Feminine in himself and in general, the less whole he feels. And he comes across as nerdy and fragile.

    But the less resistance a man has to the Feminine in himself and in general, the more whole he feels. And he comes across as a lot more pleasant to be around and more attractive because he reads as more Masculine when he stops resisting these qualities.

    So, when I talk about men integrating their Feminine side... I think a lot of guys are thinking I'm saying, "Act like a woman" or "Be an overly-emotional wuss."

    But what I really mean is to drop resistance to the Feminine principle/Yin qualities and facets of yourself, such as...

    • Your body
    • Your emotions/feelings and vulnerabilities
    • Your instincts
    • Your intuition
    • Your ordinariness and human-ness
    • Your drive to connect and socialize
    • Your inherent validity on the level of being (separating doing from your sense of worthiness)
    • Your imperfections (and valuing imperfection in general)
    • Your sovereignty
    • Etc.

    So, integrating the Feminine is a subtractive process of letting go of resistance to the archetypal and energetic Feminine that's already innate to you... and NOT an additive process of making yourself behave in more culturally Feminine ways.

    And if you resist your Feminine side, it will stop your from connecting more deeply with your Masculine side... as the negative elements of the Feminine will possess you.

    If you don't believe me. Go observe a guy who's really anti-Feminine and misogynistic... and you will find him acting quite a lot like the stereotype of a scorned bitter woman.

    You can find a lot of these petty catty guys in the Red Pill community and on Incel forums.

  5. Posted

    1 hour ago, Oppositionless said:

    @Emerald 

    I feel like you're right 

    But a man can't go too far in the feminine direction either. His femininity needs to be grounded in masculinity . I think spiral dynamics stage green without orange or yellow creates unattractive men. 

    Also stage red can manifest as inceldom or cool alpha skater dude, it just depends. 

    Think about Feminine integration as being more of a subtractive process of removing the resistances to the Feminine... as opposed to an additive process where you try to mold yourself into the Feminine.

    That tends to be the main misconception.

    Also, you cannot be more or less Feminine than you already are... you can either reject and repress it and have it come out in toxic ways OR you can embrace it and have it come out in ways that enhance your Masculinity.

    The same thing is true with the Masculine. It cannot be added or subtracted... only repressed or embraced.

  6. Posted

    The thing he's wrong about is the "all women go for the top 10% of men" line.

    That's just not true. Most women want a regular guy that she can connect with and have intimacy with... who is a reliable, safe, and pro-social kind of guy.

    And probably about 60%-70% of guys are perfectly good relationship/marriage partners.

    However, I do think there's a sizable minority of men who just are quite repellent to women... not because of looks or their job or something (like Incels  think)... but because of their cold hard personalities and anti-social ways that makes it impossible to get the level of intimacy and connection that women need to feel good in a relationship.

    And society used to guarantee these guys a marriage partner because female sovereignty and female sexuality was heavily controlled by the state.... and they weren't as able to make their own money.

    And otherwise anti-social men with money were able to essentially purchase many wives and concubines from the women's fathers. (Also not a situation women chose... and thus not an example of female selection preferences)

    The same thing is true in Gorilla societies. The female apes are perfectly fine selecting a mate with a regular non-silverback gorilla if given the chance. But the Silverback guards the females. So, the females gorillas are controlled like territory/property of the Silverback to the point where they don't have the opportunity to mate with the other gorillas.

    So, it's important to differentiate between how women select based on personal preference... and how (historically) their fathers selected for them.

    But because of this set-up, women had to rely on a man... and society heavily punished women who were single or who chose to divorce. It was a decision borne out of survival necessity instead of genuine desire and preference.

    And I agree that a lot of anti-social men got to reproduce who wouldn't have otherwise gotten to because of their unappealing personalities.

    So, I do agree that it seems like the guys that are complaining about the male loneliness epidemic are really just guys who repel women with their cold and anti-social personality.

    A man without integration with his Feminine side comes across as nerdy, cold, hostile, misogynistic, and juvenile... and it's just off-putting to women. It honestly comes across as gross and off-putting, while I'm sure many men who operate this way believe themselves to be manly men.

    It's like imagining cuddling with steel... or a very prickly cactus.

    So, I do think that now-a-days, there will be a sizable minority of guys who won't "make the cut" in terms of marrying and having children. And the internet propaganda men consume just makes that worse.

    But honestly, I did just see a video of a guy who was considering leaving his wife for an AI voice... and wanted to divorce his wife and marry the AI.

    And these are the exact type of guys that women want to be rid of and would prefer singleness over having a relationship with that kind of guy.

    Women online say this often, men are not competing with other men. Men are competing with the peace women feel when they're single. And if the woman feels better single than in a relationship with a given man, that relationship should end.

  7. Posted

    On 5/30/2025 at 2:40 PM, Alexop said:

    Minute 17:00. In the feminist utopia: 40% of women exposed to violence. 

    That's probably on the lower end in terms of gender-violence if we're talking about that as a broad umbrella of gendered violence from sexual harassment, sexual assault, rape, domestic violence, etc.

    I honestly can't even fathom of being female and having never experienced some form of sexual harassment or being touched against our will, at the very least.

    And roughly 1 in 5 women are raped in their lifetime in the United States... which is 20%.

    But if we're including sexual harassment and domestic violence more generally, I'm sure that that rate goes up to 40% and beyond.

    You just don't have a clear sense of how prevalent the issue is. So, you think this is a "Gotcha Feminists!"

  8. Posted

    1 hour ago, Ulax said:

    I agree with some of what you say. But I think it does somewhat help guys with their issues. It’s not so black or white an answer as I think your comment suggests. 

    A lot of the hyper masculine stuff centres around taking more personal responsibility and taking action. And I think that can help people somewhat improve in things like dating and what not. On the other hand, it usually leads to a fragmented mind full of disowned parts of self and a certain narcissism that can make relationships difficult and lead to various serious emotional issues imo too.

    Certainly responsibility and action taking are positive qualities.

    I just don't see any evidence of this manly man stuff actually leading out to greater levels of personal responsibility and action.

    And these are things that I've learned in the process of growing up and developing a strong work ethic in my teen years, without any gender ideology attached to it.

  9. Posted

    39 minutes ago, aurum said:

    Frustrating, and also somewhat isolating.

    You grow beyond what people can understand.

    But then you find God ^_^

    I felt that way before I started my channel 9 years ago.

    It was this sense of having made myself into a social pariah whose perspective couldn't be understood (different in a bad way), as I didn't know anyone on a similar path to mine who had experienced ego de-centering and God realization. I had also gone through some major traumas around the same time.

    And it was in my first several years of motherhood as well, which was even more isolating. 

    The most lonely years that I had were between ages 20 and 26.

    But once I started my channel, I was able to find connection with other like-minded people who have had similar experiences and who value similar things. And that met that need... and also took away the sense of specialness that I was clinging to in order to cope with the isolation.

    It was a lot better to be an average member of a group of people who were grappling with similar experiences... than to be the "one special loner who's on some totally different level that can see so much that other people don't see." (different in a good way)

    When I was a high school teacher (from age 23-25), I used to have these fantasies about my colleagues recognizing the specialness of my perspective in some objective way... because it just wasn't getting any social outlet. So, impressiveness was the only form of connection that I could imagine getting.

    But in connecting with others who are similar, that exceptionality fantasy wained as my connection needs were met on more of an eye-to-eye level with people who are dealign with similar experiences and struggles related to the expansion of consciousness. And this dropped my feelings of alienation and specialness... which go hand in hand.

    Then, I could just have normal connections with people who didn't understand because I had those needs met elsewhere.

    And in recent years, things have come full circle to a re-integration of normal human ordinariness and folksiness... and an appreciation for the perspectives of average people.

  10. Posted

    12 minutes ago, aurum said:

    I will take that to heart.

    I want you to understand though, that's not what is happening from my POV.

    When you write something, I DO consider it.

    I read it multiple times, I pause, I think about it, I write something back, I edit it, I edit again, I edit it a third time.

    It's a slow, deliberate process. 

    It's also the case that SD Green arguments feel like remedial math to me. I lived it, chewed on it and moved on. I know the memes very well, including where they go right and where they go wrong. In that sense, I can see how it comes off as dismissive.

    I also don't always explain myself. I say things vaguely and expect people to think about them for themselves. But that vagueness can also seem like I'm not engaging with the argument, because I'm not explicitly answering the question.

    So that's my feedback.

    I understand about the Stage Green arguments feeling like remedial math. They're not sexy at all.

    They are useful because that's where society is in the process of heading, and people resist them heavily for this reason as they are upsetting homeostasis.

    But if you've gone deeper, they're not the most intellectually stimulating.... as they stick to a layer of systemic thinking that's more political and social than it is about the underlying emotional, psychological, and spiritual dynamics that makes systems run as they do.

    They're useful for the current era but a bit boring and under-stimulating for people seeking deeper answers.

    At age 23, when I first started learning about Feminine re-integration after I had my experiences of the deep Feminine, I began reading a lot of Feminist literature at first. I figured that would be a good place to look on the topic.

    But I found it didn't go deep enough... even though there were a lot of valuable perspectives. So, I had to integrate these perspectives into my framework to untie some of the internalized misogyny. But they were never going to bring me to the deepest levels of Feminine integration.

    And that's what led me to seek out deeper perspectives on Feminine integration and integration more generally, where things take on a more mystical quality... and focus on the integration of opposites and the sacred marriage between the Masculine and Feminine. 

    My Ayahuasca experiences have also largely been about the embrace of the Feminine.

    I have tended to think about Feminism in waves... and the past 10ish years has been 3rd Wave Feminism.

    But these other perspectives are some later wave of Feminism that society hasn't gotten to yet. Ultimately, individuals can dive deeply into integrating the Feminine and Masculine within themselves.

    But societally and collectively, it makes sense that Blue/Orange and Green are the ways we're thinking about these things. 

    It does get frustrating though when you've experienced something so much deeper than what's on offer.

  11. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    11 minutes ago, aurum said:

    @Emerald I will do my best to not assume my perspective is higher. But I’m going to ask you extend that same curtesy to me. 

    As always, I will always take your perspective on, on its merits... and I will challenge you where I see fit, like I do with everyone else.

    So, it's not about your assumption that your perspective is more accurate/better/higher than mine. That's just the nature of having a perspective.

    If you thought my perspective was more accurate/better/higher than your current perspective, you'd just change your viewpoint.

    So, I'm going to challenge you. And you're going to challenge me. That's not the problem, as that's what this forum is for.

    My issue is about you using dishonest debate tactics... like using Spiral Dynamics as a subtle way to put my perspective in a box and to subtly communicate "this perspective is beneath consideration because it's just Stage Green liberal tripe". 

    So, just think when you're using the Spiral Dynamics model... "Am I using this as a subtle way to discount the merits and straw man the perspective of the other person by framing them as Tier 1 and lower consciousness?"

  12. Posted

    59 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

    Pleasure!

    It is an aspect everyone should be driving into.

    In relationship to others repression is further revealed, also.

    There is a lot to gain from solo inner work. But there is a reason the polarity of masculine/feminine exists.

    I take pleasure in experiencing this inner friction as everything to me is a learning experience.

    Even suffering... especially suffering :)

    Absolutely, relationship with others (romantic or platonic) is such a powerful conduit for inner work because you can see so many reflections of yourself in another.

    One thing that's been really helpful to me is that I've been a coach for the past 6.5 years. And working with a lot of people, it's really taken so much of my own patterns and struggles up out of the abstract and into the real world.

    There's nothing more helpful to the integration process that recognizing your own patterns in another person.

    I actually just got out of a group coaching session for my coaching program, and people share a lot as a whole group and in breakout rooms. And it's awesome, because people get to experience so much mirroring on their patterns and their path... which can otherwise feel invisible without that mirroring.

    And yes, when it comes to Masculine and Feminine integration... there's a lot of friction and suffering there too. And the surface-level expressions and symptoms of this lack of integration can be frustrating.

    But it does make it a lot more interesting and mysterious at the same time when you see what the real under-lying drivers are to all this surface level stuff.

  13. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    1 hour ago, aurum said:

    That's mostly right.

    I keep insisting that I'm trying to show you expanded perspective, and you keep insisting that I'm not and that you know more than me.

    So who is right? And who is really the smug one?

    That's the core tension we have going on.

    My perspective has evolved a lot over the years, so yes it might come across as different interacting with me now.

    All you have to do is actually explain your perspective in detail without engaging in dishonest debate tactics.

    So not pigeon-holing my perspectives with empty appeals to authority via the lens of Spiral Dynamics... and trying to frame things in such a way that puts my perspective underneath yourself using your understanding of the SD model.

    It's just intellectually lazy to debate like that as it puts your debate opponent in the box of inferior perspectives that need not be taken seriously.

    But with this case in particular, you're just incorrect about integration... and thinking about integration as meaning only freedom with no constraint.

    You seemed to be interpreting integration as analogous to being a libertine or something like that... which is not accurate. You can be just as repressed if you're a libertine with no constraint as you can be being an uptight teetotaler. 

    So, this shows a clear lack of understanding about what repression is and what integration is.

    So, it's important to know when you don't know... instead of trying to grand-stand on topics you don't know that much about.

    If you'd like to learn more about the integration... and specifically integration of the Masculine and Feminine through a deeper lens, I recommend checking out the book Androgyny by June Singer.

    It's a dense read, but it was really helpful to me when I first started learning about Jungian Psychology and integration of the Masculine and Feminine... which helped me make sense of my experiences of the deep Feminine several years prior to that.

    https://a.co/d/fSkj60C

     

  14. Posted

    On 6/23/2025 at 8:12 PM, Javfly33 said:

    As long I focus completely on the pleasure of the woman as like my penis is a “tool” for her pleasure, I can last infinite amount of time. Because it becomes mechanical, pure, clean. it becomes like doing push-ups. Purely physical and mechanical. 

    However the moment I start to have “toxic thoughts”, (sexist), of dominating her or of “possessing her”, or of “fucking her like is my object”, etc… I tend to instantly or almost instantly cum.

    This is interesting. Basically this seems to look as like GOD rewards you when you behave good in your mind and punishes you when you behave bad (when you create toxic scenarios or thoughts about the woman)

    Honestly, you might just have a domination kink, which is fine. Most men actually have that to some degree or another. It's nothing to feel ashamed of... nor is it necessarily an indicator of your values in day-to-day life.

    And sex can be a great place to play with socially taboo things... if your partner is open to it. It can be excellent for self-exploration.

    So, as long as you see your partner as a whole human being in other contexts and she's open to exploring these roles sexually, it can be exciting and a lot of fun.

    For example, I tend to have a more submissive orientation to sexual encounters. And if I try to be dominant, I just don't enjoy it as much. So, in that context, I'm open to things that I'd never be okay with if somebody came up to me on the street and started treating me that way.

    So, context is key here... as it the level of trust you have with your partner.

    If some random guy runs up to me on the street and calls me his slut/bitch/whore, I'm going to want to throat punch him.

    But if I'm with my partner who I love and trust and we're in the throes of passion and he calls me his slut/bitch/whore, it will probably add to the excitement.

    It's like a play where you play the damsel in distress and he plays the villain that's going to tie you to the railroad tracks. And as long as it's just fun, it's perfectly fine.

    And as long as she's into it, it wouldn't mean you're a REAL villain. It seems that that's your fear.

  16. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    20 minutes ago, aurum said:

    You could say repression is most important to focus on, but only if you radically expand your definition of repression to include loss of freedom.

    Integration is largely about the integration of opposites along all spectrums. 

    So... it is the integration of expansion and contraction... and freedom and temperance... and limitation and unlimitedness.

    In fact, things like expansion and freedom are Masculine principled values... while contraction and constraint are Feminine principled values.

    A great artist doesn't paint a painting with EVERY color on their palette. They exercise limitation and only choose 2 or 3, because it helps their creative work come to fruition (which is Masculine expansion).

    So, you have to contract to expand... constrain yourself to be free... and limit yourself to realize your infinite nature in a meaningful way.

    And you must integrate the Feminine to have positive Masculine expression.

  17. Posted

    36 minutes ago, aurum said:

    I think I understand it fine.

    I'm trying to share with a perspective I've developed over the past five years, coming from profound insights into repression, freedom and authenticity. This is not something I'm just pulling out of my ass. 

    If you think I don't understand repression, you're welcome to share where I'm going wrong.

    Focusing on repression is fine as a first step, but it's not nearly enough.

    But you clearly don't understand what repression is and what integration means, since you described integration as "the foolishness of liberalism and Stage Green"

    And I just get tired of the subtle tactic you use to invalidate my perspectives to frame my views as "Tier 1 thinking and liberal ideological tripe that's not to be taken seriously" while you imply that your views are more meta and Tier 2 and higher consciousness that I 'just don't get yet'.

    And you rely too much on the Spiral Dynamics model as an appeal to authority to pigeon-hole your debate opponent's perspectives as lower consciousness and frame your perspectives as Tier 2.

    Let's be real and honest. That's what you usually do when you argue with me on here. And it just comes across as smug and un-earned. But that also describes lots of guys on this forum.

    You didn't used to be like this as much as you are now, so I think you're picking up on bad debating habits and certain logical fallacies.

    You're honestly being a bit of Dunning-Kruger on these topics, where you don't realize that you're not aware of what Femininity really is (as you said yourself that you only see it from the narrow lens of "What I like sexually/romantically") and you're not aware of what integration really means because you're seeing integration as confined to a single Spiral Dynamics stage when the whole entire journey up the spiral is a process of integration. 

    Now, there is more to knowing yourself than integration... but knowing yourself is definitionally not possible without integration.

    Repression is the lack of consciousness regarding parts of yourself that are in your blindspot. ( Side note: We also have a collective Shadow where certain people and perspectives are in that collective blindspot)

    So, you would need to focus on integration first, as you can't do anything to get to know these unconscious parts of yourself without integrating them first. And most people's Feminine side is deeply repressed. 

    So, we need to start at square one with Feminine integration... which is dropping resistance and "making the unconscious conscious".

    But you would also need to go through the process of individuation to get more in touch with yourself as well relative to the Feminine side or any other part of yourself that you might hope to integrate.

    So, it's integration first... and then practical exercise of these qualities in external world contexts second.

    For example, let's say that I grew up in a society that saw creativity as evil and as a "work of the devil". And any sign of valuing creativity in any way would get you shunned from society.

    We, that would very likely lead me to create an identity that's in opposition to creativity. And I would find ways to make myself unconscious to any tendencies towards creativity. That's what repression is.

    But let's say that I cannot repress creativity because it's so innate to me. Then, I would have to suppress it actively because I am conscious of it. It's not in the Shadow but I have to keep it suppressed.

    In this case, the integration of my creative side is (at least partially) the status quo for me.

    But because there is no external outlet for expression and practice of this creativity... I never get to know this creative part of myself beyond what I can explore from the confines of my own imagination, which only stretches so far.

    But because my creativity is integrated and I wasn't raised in a society where I have to suppress that creative drive, I spent about 7 years of my life primarily focused on creating art. And I went to college for it... and I was a high school art teacher for a couple years, even.

    And the development of that creativity and my authentic creative voice would not have become as known to me as it currently is if I just had it integrated but didn't take any action on it.

    But... if I have it repressed I'm going to be TOTALLY unconscious to it and disconnected form it... and it will come out in toxic ways.

    But if I integrate it, I will become conscious of it... and it's less likely to express in toxic ways... even if I don't follow a path of individuation relative to creative expression. But I am also more likely to try to seek an outlet for deeper exploration.

  18. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    9 minutes ago, aurum said:

    Not by a long shot.

    Focusing on repression is exactly the foolishness of liberalism and SD Green level-logic of authenticity as liberation. And it's exhausting.

    You seem to not understand what repression means.

    You're thinking of libertine behaviors and expressing things a particular way.

    But working through repression is simply making the unconscious conscious and integrating it into your personality.

    Here's a video about what integration means...

     

  19. Posted

    1 hour ago, aurum said:

    You can't become more yourself just by focusing on repression.

    Freedom is always highly constrained.

    Repression is the most important thing to focus on as it comes to revealing your authenticity to yourself.

    Consider a society that is highly shaming and repressive of sexuality. And a person goes unconscious to huge parts of themselves because of these societal standards.

    For them, focusing on ridding themselves of mindsets, beliefs, and aversions to sexuality will help them connect more deeply with those elements of themselves and to be more authentic.

    The same thing is true about the deep Feminine. Society hates it and lashes out at it every time it's seen.

    So, women and men have a very hard time integrating their Feminine side because it is so deeply resisted.

    And it cuts us all off from a major source of power and authenticity... and prevents us from maturing as a species.

  20. Posted

    7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

    I think you really rap on shit many women - myself included - go through. The programming to be 'useful' to justify your existence in society really takes you out of the feminine state of 'being'. All I wanted was to just be in this state in my formative years. I resisted much of my own femininity in an attempt to fit a masculine ideal. You are shown from adults, disagreeable behavior is more likely to get shit done - typically a more masculine trait. There are many examples to be found. Many women also fall into this internalized misogyny trap when they are exposed to the catty nature of teen girls. 'I'm not like them' - femininity into the bin.

    I think also women, before they mature out of this, go through a 'girl boss' phase where they really overcompensate with masculine energy. Using force and over-empowerment. I always read it as someone forcing themselves into a role (masculine) that doesn't fit, and as a result, way overcompensating as they aren't familiar with just holding strong themselves. 

    It's the difference between a simple toneless 'No' and a 'No' with an aggressive diatribe.

    I think men also sense/see this and it really gives them a bad impression of feminism.

    100%

    In a nut-shell, the Deep Feminine is about sovereignty on the level of being itself.

    A lot of anti-Feminine patriarchal viewpoints are about convincing people that they are not sovereign beings and need to match up to some external authority's standards to be valid and worthy of existence.

    And when you live in world that only values and understands the Masculine and we feel like we must "do" to justify our "being", there are no empowered expressions of the Feminine to look to.

    So, most women look to male role models... or women who have sought their empowerment through the lens of the Masculine. 

    I sense a change in this in recent years.

    I made a video about Feminine archetypes with the Feminine counterparts to "Kind, Warrior, Magician, Lover" (I also made a video about he Masculine archetypes), which are "Queen, Mother, Wise Woman, Beloved" to share more about the deep Feminine...

     

  21. Posted

    9 hours ago, aurum said:

    You nailed that one. That's exactly how I think about it.

    I understand men being punished for femininity, but I wouldn't think women would be as harshly punished.

    Look at something like Mormon society. It's not really "repressed feminine". It's more mutually strict gender roles.

    If you were born a Mormon, you would have had an easier time being feminine. Mormonism is like a feminine woman factory machine, to the point that the femininity itself becomes repressive:

    This is a good example of what SD Blue is like.

    SD Orange is more repressive of femininity I'd say.

    Even though both Blue and Orange squelch the Feminine, Blue is actually a lot more repressive to the Feminine than Orange is because of the narrow gender roles and lack of female individuation.

    And I've watched a lot of her videos. Her perspectives are interesting. I'm sure she would agree with me.

    I have a close friend who's ex-Mormon, and the way the Mormon society treats women just squelches expression and humanity altogether.

    It's more like I'd be blocked off from both my Feminine and Masculine side if I were raised Mormon... or in a traditional society, really. I'd have to become 10% of what I currently am.

    The more patriarchal an environment is, the more the Feminine is stripped from it... because the deep Feminine is a genuine threat to Patriarchy and the powers that be.

    That's why stage Blue societies draw a very tiny circle of acceptable traits for women, where the power of the Deep Feminine is stripped down to a very male-controlled version of motherhood.

    That's why we need to develop past all this hyper-Masculine polarization... so that society can integrate the Feminine as opposed to being hostile to it. 

  22. Posted · Edited by Emerald

    1 hour ago, aurum said:

    Honestly, I'm having a hard time understanding why you felt the need to do this. I don't think a woman has ever earned my respect that way. 

    It sounds like you felt the need to compete with men? Or at least be more like men.

    Reminds me of this xD

    You don't understand it precisely because you haven't grown up as a female child in a society where Masculinity and manhood is seen as superior... and Femininity makes you a target for being disrespected and disempowered... and resented.

    You just think about liking Feminine women (sexually and romantically) because that's the extent of your perspective as a man. And you scratch your head because you prefer it when women are Feminine, 'so why wouldn't women just do that if they want respect?'

    But most girls and women have gone through a similar phase with internalized misogyny and a desire to shed the female identity for in-group belonging with boys/men (or simply to avoid in-group belonging with the majority of women)... it just takes slightly different forms for different girls/women.

    And for a few months, at the age of 11, it was intense levels of stoic masochism and training myself to be okay with feeling pain... to prove to myself that I was different from other girls, who I saw as weak, stupid, and contemptible because of all the misogynistic perspectives that I held at the time that I picked up from pop culture, school, and the people around me. And competing with boys by trying to be tougher was a way to prove to myself that I'm different from other girls. 

    I had to find a way to make myself an exception to my own internalized misogyny that I had picked up from the world around me.

    That's usually the case for women in the throes of internalized misogyny where they have to find some way to differentiate themselves from other women in order to avoid the chopping block of their own hatred of the Feminine and femaleness.

    I did it through leaning heavily into my Masculine side... as did many other girls/women. While others found some other differentiation factor for creating a loophole for themselves to avoid their own internalized misogyny.

    Some girls who were more okay with coming across as Feminine would be mean girls who have several close-knit female friends... but decide that she and her female friends are the only loophole women and that all other women are bitches and lesser. These women tend to avoid their own internalized misogyny by scapegoating women who are not in their in-group.

    Either way, the desire is there to say, "I'm not in the same category as most other girls. So, even though those other girls deserve the misogyny and disempowerment, I do not because I'm different and better."

    And there are many expressions of this "not like other girls" phenomenon... which comes from living in a society that doesn't value femaleness or Femininity in a real human way.

    But mine in particular was about differentiating my identity through seeing myself as more Masculine and proving to myself and others that I'm more Masculine... in order to go into cognitive dissonance that my deep hatred of girls/women and Femininity didn't apply to me (when it very much did).

    And also to convince myself that society already sees me as different than other girls, so I won't be judged or disempowered as often (which was a huge cope, but I couldn't even bear to acknowledge this).

    Ultimately, the deep Feminine can't exist in a society that only values and understands the Masculine. That's why everyone in society (men and women) are heavily suppressing their Feminine sides... as society isn't developed enough for it.

    It's like trying to grow a plant that only thrives in acidic soil in basic soil.

  23. Posted

    20 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

    @Emerald Hey I completely agree with you.

    I'm not against urges or fapping at all. I touch myself all the time without porn. It's awesome

    In fact, believe it or not, I'm not even against porn. I personally think porn is beautiful (too beautiful!).

    What I'm against is the unconscious habit loop of needing screens as a crutch for your masturbation. And then furthermore not being self-honest that you have a dependency on screens. It's this lack of self honesty which creates further isolation and fragmentation and tangible societal harm down the line. believe it or not, this is becoming more and more the norm. You really think young guys jerk off with their eyes closed, indulging in rich vivid imagination in 2025?? they can barely get off tiktok.

    The problem is that pure, genuine urges for release and pleasure are merging and defaulting into digital hyperreality, a supernormal stimulus that is addictive by definition.

    I only sound anti-porn because I'm purposefully beating the drum on how reward mechanism hijack is built into porn by default.

    The only point I'm protesting is the idea that porn is benign as though it were just another youtube video that you could simply turn off and choose not to watch. This misunderstands what porn actually is to a young lonely horny man.

    I am pro fap.

    As long as it's coming from that place, I see no issue in it.

    I just have experienced that sometimes the driver towards NoFap or anti-porn perspectives comes from shame in the sexual instinct.

  24. Posted

    19 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

    could it have a genuine emotional function?

    I'm not convinced that masculine rites of passage can be entirely chalked up to neurotic archaic arbitrary convention

    maybe the feeling of being a man and not a boy is something that a male needs to distinguish internally to have healthy emotional self esteem.

    And this distinction is only made through wrestling with the tangible, material, and physical with real stakes on the line.

    I've never heard of a boy becoming a man through passivity, abstraction, and non-consequence.

    Rites of passage are necessary in society. And these rites of passage do require struggle and the crossing of thresholds. And there are already plenty of them that most people experience (first kiss, driving, graduating, etc.)

    We just don't think of these are rites of passage because they're so mundane and baked into our society... as all rites of passage tend to be.

    But some are more specific. I'll share one that I've participated in personally that was a lot of fun.

    For example, there's a fun and common rite of passage in the South where the adults take the kids out in the woods to go "snipe hunting."

    And snipes aren't real. But the kids don't know that.

    And the adults tell you about how scary the snipes are and how they're attracted to the color red.  

    And in the middle of the night (prime snipe hunting hours) they lead the kids out into the middle of the thick of the woods where there are no clear paths.

    And the adults tell the kids that they're going to go to another area of the woods and scare the snipes their way, leaving the kids totally alone in the middle of the dark woods. And they usually have the kid either having a red shirt in their hands or some other red sack to try to catch the snipes.

    Then, the adults start shouting and acting like the snipes have gotten to them... and that the snipes are coming.

    And my Uncle Joseph and my 2nd cousin Tim took me, my cousin Tyler (my uncle's son), and my 3rd cousin Colby (Tim's son) out deep into the woods to go camping and snipe hunting.

    Colby had already been snipe hunting, so he knew what was going on... and just kept his mouth shut.

    But my cousin Tyler and I were led out into the dark woods. And Tyler was made to take off his red shirt and use it as a snipe catching sack.

    And I was a bit older... like 12. And Tyler was 9. 

    So, I was scared myself but Tyler totally freaked out because he was a little kid.

    But his fear put my mind more on consoling him than on the snipe attack (and I was just imagining them as little kiwi birds that live in the bushes anyway). My fear was more about being in the middle of the dark woods and not seeing the spiders that might be crawling on me... as I had already had to brush 3 off of me earlier that day.

    But it's little things like this... or even more universal rites of passage that help a kid face with the requisite hardship to strengthen themselves for adulthood.

  25. Posted

    9 hours ago, aurum said:

    Well we are just going to disagree on this.

    It has not been outgrown.

    If you can't understand why men need and even want that kind of pressure, you can't really understand masculinity.

    I can understand and relate to wanting challenges and pressures to prove your toughness and increase your stress and pain tolerance.

    But putting it through the lens of this conformity to societally prescribed Masculine values seems to lead to less resilient, more socially stunted men who feel fragile in their Masculine identity because they are being expected to conform to a stereotype of Masculinity that's unrealistic and isn't even a communal pro-social stereotype... and often extracts value from community instead of adding to it.

    If you can show me any evidence that men trying to conform to the socially prescribed Masculine standards in modern day adds value to society more than it detracts, then I'll reconsider. But for now, I see this drive to create a Masculine hive mind as a net negative for community that prevents male individuation.

    Just look around you and you'll see the scourge of Masculine social conformity at play... squelching the real thing, which can only be found in true individuation from the herd. You can even find this on this forum, where the attachment to conforming to Masculine standards is preventing many of these guys from being authentic and developing themselves.

    But there are some values that guy friends hold each other to that are valuable. 

    When I was an older child and younger teenager, I went through a 5-6 year phase where I would challenge myself to match up to many of the standards put on boys around tolerating pain and remaining stoic because I saw it as a necessary challenge if I wanted to be treated with respect. It was easier to be respected and valued back then if you had a Feminine appearance but had a Masculine personality... as women were seen as superior-looking and the male personality seen as the superior-personality type. So, there was a lot more social respect in coming across for a woman if you were a pretty girl with Masculine preferences.

    But despite the protective reasons why I was doing this, it strengthened my resolve in many ways in holding myself to these standards of stoicism.

    And when I was about 11 years old, I had this whole phase where (at summer camp) I would challenge other kids to scratch their nails down my arms as hard as they can in order to prove to them and to myself that I wouldn't flinch.

    And it was a matter of great pride to show that I could tolerate any amount of physical pain unflinchingly. And it was a very physical summer camp with lots of physical activity. So, I was getting hurt often (accidentally). But each wound gave me an opportunity to show my toughness and stoicism.

    Like once, this really mean kid named Calvin and I were playing indoor four square or something like that with other people in the summer camp group.

    And we both ended up jumping for the ball and we ended up colliding with each other and falling and sliding for many feet on a hard linoleum floor. And it hurt SO bad... worse than any of the other injuries that I ever sustained there.

    And Calvin was crying his mean little eyes out. And I wanted to also. But instead out of pure resolve, I swallowed the pain and pretended I was impervious to what happened... and took the opportunity to rub it in Calvin's face that he was "crying like a little girl when it didn't even hurt".

    Then, when I was about 13, my friend Cecilia and I invented this pain-tolerance game that we called "Buddy, Friend, Pal."

    And in the game, one person would start and say "Hey Buddy" and punch the other person on the upper arm (hard) but pretending like it's a light and playful punch that you'd give to a friend that you haven't seen in a while.

    Then, the other person would answer back and say, "Hey Friend" and punch back on the arm. Then, the original person would say "Hey Pal" and punch back. 

    Then, we'd just go back and forth coming up with as many synonyms for friend as possible... like "Chum!" "Dude!" "Bro!" "Partner!"... landing a punch with each new synonym for friend until we ran out and started saying insults.

    And Cecilia and I would do this as a pain-tolerance competition... where we had to go along with the ruse that we're just old buddies lightly punching each other in the arm as a gesture of endearment. And the challenge was not to flinch or let on about pain.

    And whoever flinched first was the one to lose.

    Our upper arms were totally black and blue after a day or two of playing the game. And our parents got upset, so we had to stop playing.

    So, I can see the value of guy friends putting these types of pressures on each other... as it helps you push the boundaries of tolerance and face into pain and fear with the help of social pressure.

    And if all this Masculinity driver was only towards things like this, it would be fine. But all I see when I look around is a ton of insecure men who feel like they have to mold themselves into being someone else.

    So, I think it's time to evolve past the driver towards socially performing an external gender role for the sake of social conformity... and instead to tap into the real Masculinity and real Femininity underneath all these rules.