zazed

It's being moved by the enormous possibility of us. Myself i burst out in laughter often when watching particular insightful teachers/moments. It is best not to expect anything, or to try to interpret any experience. It can lead to nothing. The thing trying to understand is the human brain, and the human brain cannot become enlightened anyway. You already are enlightened. You cry because the body did so, because the brain was moved by some interpretation, it was reality then. Your true self just experienced it, it didn't mean much to it, nothing really does. There is no need to understand anything. And if you are tired of reading and learning, then you are closest to realizing enlightenment. Because you stop the searching and are easier able to just exist. Most people are doing to much, doing less is better. Mindfulness and/or self inquiry, 24/7, is what you should try to keep up all the time. Being mindful is close to being enlightened, because what is mindful, is consciousness. Consciousness is always there, by being mindful you become aware of the watcher. It's easier to understand what you are not. Sight, smell, thought, emotion, voice, hearing, body sensations. Basically everything you are aware of, you are not. You are that which is aware of everything, except itself. By being aware that everything you are aware of is not you, you can be aware of your true self, and become enlightened. Perhaps you already are enlightened, but are waiting for some epiphany? Personally, i think enlightenment is rather bland. It's just 24/7 awareness, uninterrupted identifying with consciousness on a deep level. But its not something miraculous, you could even miss it. Tho, that is just my perspective, perhaps i am just seeing a little part of it, and have much growing to do.

One does not pee, the peeing has us...

@Shin the body experience happens in consciousness. when you feel something, don't do anything, not accept, not reject, just be awareness and be conscious of where it goes. consciousness is conscious and aware always, it is conscious of reality, which the body and brain and senses are just a part of. any experience in this reality consciousness can perceive, but not interact with. @Shin that ghost may be consciousness, which is what you really are

@Shin fascinating. Thanks for sharing. who is it that is afraid, and who is it that would die, and who is it that hears the question? these are not all the same who...

I agree. We already are enlightened. Still many people have lots of mental self-identifying going on, and are just shy of suicide quite often. Being able to just live and enjoy the party is what enlightenment is. Regretting the past, fearing the future, or wanting to go to the future for escape of the now, are all signs enlightenment has not yet happened. Most people cannot so quickly let go. If you live life as simple and joyful as you claim, i would say you already are "enlightened"

Be sure to do self-inquiry at the same time. Who is this who's face is burning off, who is feeling this intense burning pain. You will realize you are that which is aware of the burning, and you will die an enlightened Buddha.

You have just convinced yourself you are. You never were this, it's the illusion. Next time you think something you don't agree with, feel free to say : "fuck it you old bastard, i'm not listening to you anymore!" And then ask yourself "Who said fuck it to whom now, and which one is really me?", and no answer you will find... (I tried hard to use explicit language too, did i succeed?)

Do it from when you wake up, until you go to sleep. I'll get distracted, but i always try to do self inquiry, 24/7. If i'm not talking, and not doing something that requires full attention, i'm doing mindfulness basically. Driving the car, cooking, walking, waiting, listening to people, being bored. I drive my car without music or any distractions now, to practice mindfulness. Even when re-reading my posts here, i practice self-inquiry and/or mindfulness. The mind seemingly has 2 modus operandi during a day: 1. Doing something active, usually the mind is quiet or so focused on the task, that there are no garbage thoughts. -> For example, i'm learning a musical instrument, and i'll think nothing while practicing, it takes my full awareness. -> many types of 2 can happen between the focused moments (taking a break, or when getting frustrated) 2. Doing something inactive, like driving/cooking. That's where the mind of most, goes off into stories about past/future, to "entertain" itself. -> it's easy to practice mindfulness here, and also most rewarding. These "empty" moments are the most poisonous to one's being, because they tend to fill up your mind with the most destructive thoughts, if your not mindful. In fact, i meditate or do real "work" very rarely, aside from reading and watching YouTube (hours daily) What is the purpose of meditating 7 hours a day, when once you step in the car you're frustrated, shouting at traffic, and constantly worrying about next week? I meditated maybe 3 hours this month so far, and i have made great progress nonetheless. Because i pay attention to it all day, my mind is quieting down greatly.

This is normal. Be aware of your thoughts wandering, do not identify them, do not force them away, let them be. They will diminish on their own. First you must come to a realization what your thoughts are, and how they are not you, because you are watching them. Self inquiry, or study of the mind, is what mindfulness should be. I can highly recommend the video @Dodoster linked

It's the illusion of personality. It is something indeed, but it is not you. Thought processes create more thought processes, memories color thoughts, this is what appears to be us, what appears to be a personality. We think, therefor we are, is the illusion here. You can use it to predict others behaviors, and it defines how you react in most situations, if you are unaware. If you are convinced these thoughts and ideas have merit and meaning, and they are yours, you will get in all sorts of trouble. You will want to defend them, you are hurt if they are wrong. You also create your current behavior based on your past behavior. A powerful force is the expectancy of others in how you are going to respond. In this way they have power over you and you behave according to their expectations, within a certain paradigm of memories you have of yourself. Have you ever noticed, how on vacation you can behave quite differently with total strangers? It's because you lost a big part of your self(people who know you) on vacation, there is less expectation to conform to what others would expect of you. Some things are harder to let go than others, i am introverted, but it's a preference of this brain/body, and i am not shy(which is a fear), just introverted by choice. Many people may think me quite extroverted in social interaction, and i can enjoy it, but i like my solitude given the choice. This is not how i started out, i was very much afraid to be social, tho i did not admit this to myself then. But it's not really a core anything, it is an amalgam of various things happening. It appears as personality, and yes, even masters still have it. These masters were born in a culture which shaped them. You see this in the clothes they choose to wear for example. But i would think if you spend a longer time with them, their personality would either be strange and fluid, unable to pinpoint, or very peaceful, open and unclinging. So what we truly are is what is watching those thoughts, if you look closely, you will realize that there is something that is aware of the thoughts, something that never speaks, but sees it all, silently. That is you, and the "watcher" can dismiss thoughts as unimportant, if it is aware enough. Or ask yourself, "who is it that is perceiving these thoughts about myself?" Or go further and ask yourself "Is that me, this thought?" when something troublesome appears in your thoughts. And you can do what Leo calls going meta, and ask "Is that me, asking; is that me, this thought?". This will bring you in a strange mental questioning loop, which will make you start questioning "what exactly are thoughts?" and "What exactly is me here, where is it?". Or just stop thinking entirely, when the looped questioning becomes boring, then you end up just being, without any desire to do the next thing, or thoughts about the previous thing, just full & empty being. If you do this in a social situation, when someone is talking, you are no longer an introvert, you forget you exist even. There is no you to be quiet, you don't think before you speak, and you don't really care about reactions, positive or negative, because they float away in time.

@Martin123 I love that pic, where did you find it, what school/teachings/teacher is it from?

what is the ego but memories of the past haunting our thoughts? I experienced it then, so it must be so. Who!? being was being in the past?

i think it means there may be one experience, but it's so unexplainable that it is explained in various ways because each brain/body explaining it, is explaining it from it's limited perspective.

We are consciousness, just being aware of all these thoughts. When we think we are our thoughts, we have a seemingly fixed personality. But its just random thoughts, you don't have to identify with them, nor agree with them, nor act upon what they are telling you.

@Dodoster procrastinating is where i do my best work

I'm not sure about it. I also don't think it is required to have a belief about it. Perhaps my brain/body would be comforted having some certainty it exists. But if trying to embrace no-self, or being, then what is the purpose of comforting the self. So i'll just let my brain/body fear death, and i'll wander of without it.

That is a beautiful thing. I did this a very long time myself, and there is nothing wrong with this. For myself, i found it easy to self-indoctrinate. I've been certain of a lot of crazy stuff You are actually starting to convince me to perhaps investigate this perspective deeper. So Rupert is back on the playlist tonight, with some of his thoughts on these topics This would be a contradiction of most what they are saying, and they are not saying they are speaking from enlightenment. They may have lost their sense of self. And as such are very open and non egoistic, this comes over easily, you can feel it. So you can trust their hearts yes. But if we can agree that, consciousness is consciousness, and that it means being fully aware. Then we must also agree that consciousness does not speak. Oh how easy it would be if our consciousness could just reveal itself. Here I am, this is me, your consciousness. Consciousness does not speak, it is pure perception, pure being, now. So their brains/minds have to make sense of all they are feeling, seeing, and the way in which they are aware. As such it is an interpretation done by a lesser entity. Still, i watch a lot of their talks, i watch Rupert or Mooji and especially Paul every evening. Yes they are enlightened, so their brain works better than most brains, it's not without merit. I think Paul implies he can barely explain it, and that the one explaining is not him, in some of his talks

This is a good question. Perhaps i'll believe it one day. I believe awareness does not believe anything. In that sense it is irrelevant what my brain believes Just sitting here, i can be aware, i do not need to think or believe to be aware, when i'm aware, then i'm aware. That is all there is. I cannot prove or disprove this non-dual end point, perhaps i can someday realize it, if i don't i'll never have proof either way. I also admit, Rupert sometimes goes into what i would call hocus-pocus land, and that's when i zone out Over time, i have gotten a natural aversion for anything too far-fetched, seen many new-agey tropes that pulled me in when I was younger. I've had my fill with believing things without proof, and I've had some minimal proofs so perhaps i have some luxury of not needing to. Perhaps one day i will experience this one-ness, and i'm only just discovering this being. Possibly, i would not experience it as one-ness. It's not as if being comes with a manual, it just is. I've felt things resembling oneness and connectedness with everything, but i don't label them as implying everything is one. Consciousness doesn't talk back, so the things teaching us, are the human brains of all these teachers, trying to make some logical sense of something incomprehensible. Do you really fully trust their mortal brains to do a good job of that? I don't trust my own brain to make sense of it, but hell, it's trying it's best, and probably failing, and that's ok. In the end, it matters not. The only thing that matters is being consciousness. This is what they mean, when they say, "all this is just a sign to consciousness, it is not consciousness itself."

Dodoster, funny thing is, i follow non-duality now, and it has given me these insights. I follow Rupert Spira, love him, and especially Paul Hedderman. Paul says often, you can't use the Buddha to seek the Buddha. You can't use light to find light. He also says awareness can only be aware of that which it is not. And i agree, it is my experience. But you have to realize, it is a very fine line here, it's almost both correct in a way. And it is not explicable in words, the nuance is so tiny. In a sense both statements are correct. But I've found the way Paul said it, very helpful in my realization of awareness. This is why i stand by my interpretation of awareness cannot be directly aware of itself (added a word here). Awareness is aware of itself in a sense, but it cannot directly perceive itself. It is aware through the perceiving of that which it is not. This i have truly felt and seen, and am quite certain about.

I was more aware, that instead of contributing to the discussion, someone was just making one liners, claiming these words were wrong without adding to it. It's hard to discuss dogma, if one is saying "The world is like this, you are wrong". It was kinda sad, when i noticed this conversation devolving into a circular discussion. Go back and read again, if you'd like. Being enlightened does not mean you cannot think anymore, one does not become brain-dead and blind... It also does not mean, you can't tell anyone you disagree with them. This body was thought English in school, that is how languages work. Should we replace everything with one or we or it? I can mean many things in English, it can refer to the body. The I referring to the body is the mind, so I can also mean the mind in English. What I really is tho, is the one perceiving both these things. My true self is pure consciousness of my mind sharing about it's interpretation of consciousness. This is consciousness aware of mind talking about consciousness. It's perfectly ok, and no contradiction The I who is talking then, is the brain making sense of consciousness, and trying to use its knowledge of English to communicate. No Buddha can be consciousness speaking or thinking, because consciousness doesn't form words and sentences, not with it's voice and not with it's mind. Consciousness doesn't speak English, English is thought in schools...

@Prabhaker I think we can agree to disagree. I'm just sharing my experiences, there is no purpose to trying to prove each-other wrong. There is no reason for anyone to even agree here. What you say is not my experience, perhaps because I've never taken to these "everything is one" statements. It's too dogmatic for me, and i abhor dogma. I would be interested to hear in detail your experiences or ideas. I am not at all interested in you saying my experience is wrong I didn't ask for teaching, i just shared my views.

Not to you as consciousness. It's kind of irrelevant, because you can only see the brain-interpreted tree. You can never see the tree as it truly is. The concept of trunk, leaves, tree are thought in school, consciousness does not know about them. A baby when watching a tree, knows nothing, it doesn't even know it's green (because it hasn't been thought the names of colors). But it still perceives something right? What exactly and how? The body watches the sun rise, it has eyes. Consciousness watches the sun rise within the thoughts of the body. In this way you are one with the sun, more or less. An enlightened person does not really care about the exact definition of the external universe. You are not separate from the sun when you are seeing it. When not seeing it it does not exist. This body is not the sun, because that would be ridiculous. You clearly follow a certain school, and you truly believe it all. Which is fine. It not inherently wrong, but i think you are literally interpreting things meant as metaphor (perhaps details lost over the ages). I believe nothing, i only see what i can see and know, and i read a lot and assimilate what is useful. I'm fairly certain I've been able to be consciousness more and more, but i might be in some kind of self-deluded mental state, which is probably more likely, but honestly does it even matter?

This is my experience. This body is watching the sun rise, but the fact it is the sun, and that it is rising, is a fact known by my brain. Consciousness is aware of this happening, but it is happening in my thoughts. As such the sun is rising within me. This is not my experience. It's also a bit to hocus pocus for me. In a sense it is true. If i imagine me expanding my cosmic-body in my thoughts, i will be aware of this, and it will be true to my consciousness, like everything else it is aware of. My experience is much simpler... Perhaps incomplete.

So kind of you to assume I am talking about a state of being tho. I did not have this only when meditating, i walked around like this for hours this weekend, and even in this moment. I am talking about all the stuff happening when walking around, stuff you cannot avoid even if you are enlightened, if you want to live. Like just now i was checking my fridge and thought briefly "i didn't want to cook", then i thought "it doesn't really matter". At the same time there was this perception of these thoughts that was really me. Like i'm an action figure being dragged around by consciousness, but that is also incorrect to state. The action figure still speaks, it's alive, it still has problems But I have no problems, i'm just perceiving this monkey's problems, this monkey that happens to be at the center of all that i can perceive, and this monkey even thinks it is me sometimes, funny... This is what my consciousness would think, if it could think or communicate its thoughts.

Your entire post resonates with my exact experiences. In my experience, you become aware of your thoughts stopping. And there is nothing left, there is this great emptiness. But it is intensely aware of everything happening to your body and around it via the senses. In this way you become aware of that what you are not, which is at that point everything you are aware of. You are aware of being aware of not being what you are aware of.