Nahm

How’d I know you’d say both? First, scenario A, your own death. What happens? All is revealed, you are all, you always were, you are perfect, infinite. The life you just lived was not a life you just lived. It was nothing at all. Literally. Like when you wake up in the morning and recall a dream you had, but it fades away quickly. What was it? It’s gone, and it’s nothing. What is a dream really? Well, while the dream was occurring it was a dream. Once you woke up though, it’s as if it never did occur. It was Nothing. What are you really? Infinity. It’s crystal clear. It is what you are, so really, you can’t even say “it’s clear”. It IS you, and you have always, eternally, been you. Scenario B, someone else dies. What happens? This scenario is harder to grasp I would assume. Not sure. So Jim is living, and Jim experienced that his close friend Bill died. What happens to Bill is scenario A. So, what happens to Jim? Two scenarios: Jim is asleep / has not realized no self / Oneness (let alone infinity, God, etc) (delusion / ego / etc): Jim suffers big time. Jim suffers the loss of a “Bill”, via the thought stories which support that there was a “Bill”, a separate entity “Bill” who Jim no longer has around to be with. Jim also suffers via the thought story of what became of my buddy Bill? Did Bill slip into nonexistence? Did Bill go to hell? Did Bill fall into limbo? Purgatory? A dead mindless void? Jim is awake / has realized no self / Oneness (not necessarily enlightened / liberated / self realized, self actualized, etc): Jim knows who Jim really is. So Jim knows who Bill really is. Jim knows fullwell who Jim and Bill actually are. From direct experience, I’d say Jim experience a bodily sensation which would be pretty tough to decipher, as to wether it is pain or sorrow. Jim morns like everyone else does - but without the thought stories, without the suffering.

@AlphaAbundance Me too, severely. What’s great about not suffering is not suffering. If your scale is based on 0 - 20 and suffering is 10 - 20 range, and joy is 3 - that is not actually joy. That is “joy” experienced through a thought story. Like how a tiny bit of light might be shining through a window that is 99% draped. Something terrible is observed, “joy” instantly goes from 3 to 0. JOY is no drape at all. Every cell is elated! No line between where a body ends and bliss begins, the body is bliss! THAT is JOY. Something terrible is observed.....JOY sky rockets!! There is no drape, all is illuminated! No more RE-ACTing, (repeating). Over and over, never ending - RE- JOY-cing. Around here, “seeking” has a microcosm definition based on the existence of and defeating of, an “ego”. So consider a meaning for “seeking” as more broad than this forum, spirituality, etc. More broad than “beating an ego to death”. If only for this post / explanation, let’s define suffering as experiencing a thought story, and seeking as trying to experience reality as it is (Actuality). Using a similar scale analogy.... Person A: Suffering is 5. Seeking is 5. Occasional joy. Person B: Suffering is 1. Seeking is 1. Occasional joy. Person C: Suffering is 10. Seeking is 10. No joy. BUT...Though Person C is suffering at 10, they are also seeking at 10. Person C ain’t messing around here. Suffering to Person C is not a game, they do not take it lightly, they don’t have time for wasting. Person C isn’t “meditating once and a while”. Person C isn’t “considering trying psychedelics”. Person C WILL END THE SUFFERING, NO THING WILL STOP THEM. So eventually, Person C awakens. Now, Person C .... Person C. Suffering 0. Seeking 0. JOY, &. RE-JOYcing. *Again, keep in mind that living life via a thought story is suffering. “Can you describe it?” Yes. Reality as it is. No thought stories. When one ignores sensations, thinking then supplies a thought story to accommodate the ignore-ance. Thought story “makes sense” of the experience, but does not include the simple fact that one has ignored the sensations. Why not? Because it’s thinking. It is not sensations. Thinking has no need for concern of sensations, nor concern of the avoidance / ignore-ance of sensations.

@AlphaAbundance Are you asking about your own death, or someone else’s? That distinction is absolutely critical.

Suffering. How is this still a mystery?

He has yet to face his sensations. Likely due (unfortunately) to pretty severe childhood traumas.

What is your intention? What do you want?

@theking00 If something is infinite: Does that include all things? And could there be something separate?

Do you figure God is infinite & unlimited / All That Is?

@JakeR “superposition” ?

Don’t make the same mistake yourself.

This is a tough way to address your beliefs and work through that armor. You don’t have to be this tough on yourself. You could do it like people regularly do, in therapy, or talking with someone who can listen, and wants to help. Not sure this is going to help you, publicizing your outbursts and making accusations like that. You know people made threads, and you read what they said. What you don’t see are their intentions, or what they actually did or didn’t do. For your own well being Mikael, make the distinction between what you’re experiencing, and your beliefs.

@Paul92 “Where do I start?” That’s the best question you could be asking right now. You’re trying to start at self realization and work down so to speak, and finding out that does not work at all - because you just have a bunch of thoughts and ideas about self realization. Let it go already. When you want to, stop trying so hard to be right, and start being happy. “How can I return to normality” = I’m overthinking and lost in thought stories, how do I realize I’m just sitting here and I’m safe, and fine? None of this depression is about existentialism. It’s about your perspective on yourself, and your life. Write on paper about how you’re feeling. Start therapy. Get a massage. Try Reiki. Go to a Meet Up with people going through similar things. Get outside and breathe. Call up a friend, or family.

@UDT If you’re making a lot of money doing something, you can start your own business doing it. You can grow it and replace yourself. Then, you can do the work. Caves are nice too.

In a way so you can truly understand it....?

@Shaun Cool. ??

@Key Elements He pointed to your thinking, you said it’s your experience......?

@Shaun Can you let it in? I can ‘send’. Willing to open, to see ?

Perspective is such power. Love.......Shit.. Forget about it. ? ♥️ ♥️ ♥️ ? “Orange is young and full of daring - but very unsteady for the first go round”.

@Highest ???????♥️ ?

@Highest ?? (???♥️)

It is easy to underestimate our own devil. It’s intolerable to questions like, “Did you experience being a guy who had his head cut off?”...no. You are experiencing a thought about a guy having his head cut off. Why are you confusing the two? It’s actually so you can pretend, so you can suffer. I am not telling you to stop.

Same thing. First one you’re aware is on you. Second one, you’re blaming God, unaware it’s the perspective you’re choosing.

Sounds like you ‘get’ something, but don’t want to share it because it’s very personal, so you express it using art. If that’s what you’re saying, I get that. I just can’t ‘get’ references to your actual experience as a communication, without any communication of details about it. That’s fine though. It’s intriguingly lovely I suppose.

@Key Elements Sorry, I am confused, and assuming I just am missing something. Are you saying don’t pursue self actualization, suggested practices, psychedelics, etc, (“methods”), but rather just live your life purpose and enjoy the unfolding of the realization organically? Are you asking what good would it be to realize you’re infinity, as in what impact that has on the rest of this life, including life purpose? (And that it would sometimes be realized but missed, but found through thinking?)

Watch out for that stuff. Our suffering is self imposed. MAybe contemplate beginnings & endings.