Nahm

@allislove Oh stop. @roopepa No. The perspective of the inquiry has an a priori misnomer / assumption / illusory hindsight hijacking & projection / misunderstanding at it’s origination, or presupposition. The enlightened one can never experience itself because it is the infinite enlightened one. Remembering, or self realization if you will, is not some kind of reward, achievement or accomplishment for someone, which required or requires ambition, dedication, practices, trips, or anything else whatsoever on someone’s behalf - but conditioning (and really, ignorant yet innocent spiritual propaganda) and the believing of, make it seem so. You are the only authority. If you’ve overextended there, reel it on back home. The enlightened one can stop thinking & speaking from the perspective of ‘a separate self’ anytime it wants. Silence is always an option. ‘It’ is already and always aware of these thoughts which seem to veil itself from itself leading to the circumventive belief it could experience itself. It is aware of this idea or conceptualization of itself without exception. It is felt. There is literally no one nor no thing preventing this whatsoever, in either case. If there is, or if it seems there is rather, the enlightened one is doing / believing / saying that - right now. So ‘it’s’ not saying ‘that’… it’s whatever’s being said now - it’s ‘this’ - not a ‘that’ (some thought or experience in a past or future). Again, not believing / saying this is always an option. Sometimes ‘that’ (the separate self with a past) arises from a hindsight hijacking after a glimpse, a glimpse being that there is no second separate self and there never was, and the ‘hijacking’ essentially being the believing of the yet to be inspected beliefs / thoughts resuming such that there is a separate self who is the one who had the glimpse, or, ‘experienced one’s true self’. Aka ‘the knower’ or ‘spiritual ego’. Those are pointers, not separate entities the enlightened one actually becomes. ‘It’ is that thought, not “that entity”. The enlightened one does by never doing, there is no ‘forgetting on purpose’ for some ‘reason’, be it a problem or “infinite time”. This implies there is some afterlife, some other realm, etc, which sucks in some way compared to ‘this one’. There are not these two ‘places’. “That one” is “this one”. You can be, do & have anything you want, and you are right now. ‘And here we are’, as they say. There is absolutely NO ‘catch’. No ‘you’ can not and does not lose no “thing” - you - awareness of ‘thoughts’, stops believing the thoughts that there are or were separate things. The “suffering of infinite being” narratives like loneliness, some desire to forget itself etc, is innocent egoic ballyhoo. Love does not have an opposite. Love does not “think”. Love be’s thoughts. That you are separate, and or not loved, loving, and love itself, is the only relevant delusion. Delusion is not cognitive because there is no separate mind which could be deluded. It is felt. It is feeling (unconditional love) ‘saying’ - I’m right here. Had you said, “there seems to be this & that, right & wrong, loss & gain, losing & winning, pain & pleasure”… the answer would be simple - those are thoughts, not separate things. Not even separate experiences. But when you included “here I am”, that is a belief of identification. Take a look… where exactly ‘you’ believing ‘you’ are? “Not there”, perhaps? Here & there, also thoughts. Thoughts are things, and you are all “things”, via vibrational appearance. You are nowhere right now appearing as somewhere. “One remembers” is only a pointer. There is no one which remembers. Remember = already are the enlightened one, not - remembered you are the enlightened one. It really is the darndest ‘thing’. One who experiences can not, because that is a thought, a belief. The enlightened one is. In the concession sense, to “the one who recognizes”…recognizing nonsense via the ever present infinite sensational guidance of feeling / unconditional love. The guided is the guide. It’s not possible because there is not that separate self. That there is one which remembers or one which awakens or awakened and comes back again is just a thought. Repeated, a belief. Shared, self image. Heard & believed, a dogma. It’s a thought which arises in the ‘only time’ there ever is - right now - and is believed. Careful not to rope DMT into such a belief as well, as that could be very confusing. In the strictest sense, all so called experiences are the whole of experience, and all experience is in actuality the enlightened one, and psychedelics have absolutely nothing more to do with enlightenment than a mailbox. Paradoxically, a psychedelic will not help a who realize this, but they do help God spot beliefs rather easily. No because there isn’t that one. This is your place man. This is your reality. It’s ALL you. Playing could loosely be said to be the whole point. If there is suffering, you’re doin it. If there is seriousness, you’re doin it. Never someone else, regardless of how it may seem or what might be believed. You’re already playing right now, we are already the enlightened one playing together right now. This is it. This is what it looks like. Try to ‘not play’, and you’re playing ‘not playing’. There is no “I which is afraid”. The thought doesn’t make sense (feel great) because it is nonsense. Always listen to the guidance of feeling well and above what anyone says / what you think or believe. Let it go. How? Focus on anything else, and or ‘reach for a better feeling thought’. You (the enlightened one) have a thought, you don’t like how it feels, you believe it anyways & play the separate self, the knower, the one who is right, the one who was wronged, the one who was or is hurt, etc, and you make up that there is “fear” to label & suppress away the very emotion / feeling / guidance sought - and thus you create suffering (and a bit of karma to purify / empty out). No one else feels this suffering, only you, literally & absolutely. (Some tones here are for desired effect)

The loop factor is self referential thinking, or, thoughts about a ‘my self’. Awareness kinda can’t do anything with these thought because it is already its infinite self, vs a ‘thing’ or object. Meditation is the settling, or quieting of thought activity, which happens naturally, relaxed, effortlessly, and is not a ‘doing’. When there is no thought activity about any separation, it gets obvious quick that there is no ‘you’, as in a separate you. Awareness literally is appearing as the thoughts. Without the activity of thoughts, there is just (a more obvious) awareness. The One and only awareness. ?

That’s a HUGE insight imo. Establishing the intention, feelin it, and letting it go… then it can be.

@Meliodas If you listed very specifically the data needed you might have more luck with volunteers pming you. At least people would know what data you need.

@Javfly33 Aw my man I feel for ya. Kinda going at it the hard way. You’ve got to align your behaviors and actions with your intention. Feels great and is effortless.

The belief in an afterlife, namely a hell or hell realm, is the belief you are separate of this hell or hell realm, and is precisely how you create and experience the suffering, or, the ‘hell’.

“Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division.” - Jesus

Let what you desire go from mind earnestly, genuinely, actually. (By instead focusing on feeling & perception). Then, as reality, unencumbered by dualistic thought activity, You become it. Notice thoughts about you getting whatever, and choose instead to Love that very whatever, regardless of you ever getting it or not. You could consider both letting the activity of thinking go, via meditation and or focusing on feeling & perception… and also inspecting the thought activity, spotting subject-object thoughts and self referential thoughts. These are like corks being plugged again & again into the lamp you are rubbing, which holds the genie, which is already being all which you desired / desire / ever could or will desire.

Why >>> dream. Dream >>> why.

Sometimes what’s accepted is what’s projected. Who is it up to… pressure, hostility, etc. It is either of the flashlight, or the light on the wall… but of course, the only reality of the light on the wall, is the flashlight.

@Holygrail How many ego’s you figure there are?

“If someone gives you a gift, which you refuse, to whom does the gift belong?” - The Buddha

@QandC I might have misunderstood. I thought you were currently experiencing this. What was the catalyst when you were 17 and experienced it?

@QandC I don’t mean this flippantly or anything… but would you then say that you’re feeling great, typically and there is suffering of the mind… or that you are not feeling great typically, and in that sense the suffering is felt?

@math159w is the life purpose course a "waste" of time and money if i'm pursuing enlightenment? Imo, no, definitely not a waste by any measure. This is just one opinion, but I’d go so far as to say do it right now - don’t think about it, just take the course. Get started, by ‘getting out of your own way’. You’re going to earn / make income, that’s not really in question. What’s in question is wether or not you’ll discover your unique gifts and talents and pair this with the income avenue accordingly. What enlightenment work has to do with this (or doesn’t) depends solely on what ‘enlightenment work’ is to you, what your idea or connotation of it is. It is likely that is basically care for the body mind / well being, practices like meditation, yoga, breath work etc, nondual theory, introspection & expression etc, and possibly retreats, trips, etc. In that light I would consider a different perspective… I’d reframe ‘enlightenment work’ to ‘my betterment of life work’. If a facet or component of ‘enlightenment work’ does not serve your life, if it is adverse - I would stop and give long consideration to why you’re even doing it. Then you will likely see that the reason you are doing it is because it does serve your life, as it can never ‘serve enlightenment’.

Sorry to hear. Would you say the suffering is of the mind / thoughts… or that the suffering is more in feeling or felt?

Understanding paradox, as not to be roped into a one-way thinking is key. As an example… Most Effective Attributes to Reach Enlightenment Curious to hear from some of you enlightened beings as to what you deem to be the top attributes/qualities to reach enlightenment. While I'm not levitating yet, there has been healing, growth, and clarity in thanks to the list below. (ranked in order) 1) Awareness (Contemplation, Introspection) 2) Open Mindedness 3) Discipline —— Enlightenment isn’t reachable, thus there are no attributes applicable There are no enlightened beings, because enlightenment isn’t reachable by individuals regardless of attributes 1) Awareness isn’t an attribute, if it were awareness would be aware of ‘it’, which nullifies it as an attribute. 2.) If open mindedness is an attribute, to whom or what is this attribute attributed to? The awareness aware of the thought ‘open mindedness’. 3.) If discipline is an attribute, to whom or what? What is disciplining? What is disciplined? —— If you find this comment triggers, or swings the pendulum in extreme fashion, or if projection upon one arises such that the implication seems to be suggestive of swinging the pendulum one way… inspect what arises, as the awareness of the thoughts.

Like Mandy said, if I might, don’t assume a metaphysical explanation is needed, change perspective. Might help to choose a specific example of a limited resource, and play it all the way out. It’ll circle back, or go straight to, depending on perspective, to changing perspective.

@Godhead I’d say it implies it yes, but the second without the third leaves the second out of context… with the third going on to say that it is not desire in and of itself which is or is the cause of suffering, but clinging / thought attachment in regard to ‘separate things’ and seeking fulfillment in that way.

Got a reference / resource on that?

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It’d be most beneficial instead (just opinion here) to go outside, breathe it all in and notice - that / this, is flat out fucking impossible. Every single explanation is absolutely wrong as in not it. Kensho might be a thought, sure, but Kensho can not be thought.

@RMQualtrough Might sound redundant or even critical, not meant that way… if everything is said to come from nothing, or if nothingness is a foundation, then these are properties, features, facets, aspects, etc, and nothing is no longer nothing, but is now misappropriated as “that which” is two, -and- has properties, features, facets, aspects, etc. (As pointings of course, great, no ‘issue’.) If there is one thing in or by which infinity resides, then there is either not that one thing, or there is not infinity, or there is neither… but by definition there can’t be both. Yes on the “deep sleep” pointing. When one is “awake” God is asleep, so to speak, so all “awakenings” are seen as delusion / duality. That appears to be a very ‘way down the path’ comment or perspective, but that is the ‘sneakiness’ (if you will) of now, or we might say, of now vs experience, in the opening the door sense to identifying by “a past” or “a future”. Because deep sleep is being said to be a property of nothingness, which is then no longer nothingness. Even ‘literal’ upon nothingness implies a ‘not literal’. Otherwise, if I am caught up in language here and that is precisely what you’re saying, then just - yep. Because ‘it’ is never things, ‘consciousness’ is kind of the ultimate pointer, such that consciousness can inspect and realize there is no actuality of separation / things. Also, consciousness, or awareness, points to the most prior, and then the label also goes. What is or would therefore be aware of awareness, or conscious of this consciousness (minus the dualistic implication via language there). Also - the instant consciousness realizes it is consciousness which can never come, go, awaken, fall asleep, yada yada, eternity is ‘realized’. Even ‘the underlying’ must go. It is not possible to have mind before matter. Matter = Mind. Mind = matter. ‘Matter’ is just a thought, a label. Inevitably, so too is Mind, as in finite and or infinite. Points back to the ultimate pointing of “consciousness’. Again though, might be saying the same thing here… and also, me saying whatever seems to be being said must also be ‘seen through’ / cancelled out. Not a word of it is true. It’s literally being made up ‘on the fly’. Edit: reply to your last comment… there are no “humans”…there is no “relative viewpoint”… there is no “void”! That is all consciousness… and even that label (consciousness) must go.

But even by inference… what literally does not exist (nonexistence) simply isn’t, and can not even be inferred. “If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, did it make a sound?” Points to that the tree, ear & sound are all (equally / parallel) vibration. There is no duality of observer / observed. There is no ‘the two together’, the seeming two are One. Same factor… there is no observer, only the thought that there is. Scrutinize direct experience… is that thought - ‘that there is an observed’ - that very thought ‘itself’… is it ‘observed’ in any separate manor really? Is there a separation of any kind present? Is there the direct experience of a ‘dormant observer’ in deep sleep or an aesthetic? Or is there the hindsight thought / assumption that there is? Not that there is a separate body mind, but analogously… if the body mind so to speak, RMQualtrough, right now appeared as John Doe… the thought might arise ‘for’ ‘John Doe’ - where did RMQualtrough go? Another approach… what you’re saying about deep sleep and an aesthetic isn’t evidence for an observer which is dormant, but is evidence that there really is no ‘time’. No time passed… but if it is believed time passed… then the mind if you will, fills in with an explanation, for that which is unexplainable & being the very explanation and mind it’s arising in. If nothing is said to have a property it is not being said to be nothing. What is not two of course can not - does not even know - ‘sleep’. Asleep & awake are a mental duality. All “awakening” and or “awakenings” is / are mental duality, thought attachment, monkey mind (a bit extreme language for emphasis). Finger & moon situation. God be’s by not being and sleeps by not sleeping. Also, if it is said awareness comes and goes in any way or manor… and that is based on direct experience… then what is being said is that awareness is aware of awareness coming & going, thus awareness doesn’t / isn’t coming & going.