theleelajoker

Me: recommending a book that shows how easily (parts of) the brain fools us when building models. And how we stick to it despite overwhelming evidence. (Watzlawik is also a good source) You: "my model is correct" 😂😂😂

Book recommendation: "no self, no problem" from Chris Niebauer. Part of human loves COHERENCE, not truth. You see what you want to see.

😂😂😂 Thanks for making me laugh. But I don't identify with this. NOT AT ALL. I'm unique, with a unique perspective of life. Same as anyone else. Who is this so called majority of NT people? Where is this so called NT society with different neurological processing than the so called ND's? I don't care much about some YouTube videos or similar, I focus on my direct field of experience through interaction. And when I do, and I go out into the world, all I see is unique individuals. Talk to those "NTs" and I'm pretty sure you'll loose these labels and categories.

IMO, this thread is mainly a collection of projection, generalizations, categorization and labeling. If it's helps anyone for now to better accept him or herself, so be it.. But I'm betting my ass sooner or later you'll recognize the dead end you put yourself into. Why? Because you label people NT or ND...but where's the line? When do you stop being X and start being Y? If you act like ABC in 8.658 cases out of 10 times to degree if 76° or more, in at least 13.7 categories out of 23.4 over a span of 3.76 months? And even IF I take this halfway seriously, you are telling me there are only NDs and NTs lol? What about ND1 and ND2? Or actually, it's ND1.1 and ND.1.2 and ND2.1 and ND2.2. But only Sundays, and only if it's the third Sunday in a month. You are just creating stories to justify the way you are. Wake up, accept yourself, move on.

@Zenterus I like your two posts in this topic. Guess it will help others to see the traps of pick up mindset, too. One thing I want to add: You say there are emotional wounds that are hard for you to get to IME, pick up mindset, and strategies and gaming about human interaction are often a result of 1. You know strategize again with 10 points above. In a different, more loving way towards women - but what about yourself? Drop ALL concepts. Drop ALL strategies. It's all mind stuff. You don't get to your emotions that way. I recommend 100% improv mindest. 100% going with flow of interaction. Good luck!

+1 Sums up pretty much my experience. The deeper I go into the rabbit hole, the more the conditioned self I uncover and the more freedom I am able to gain

Yeah that seems to be the case. But don't know what the point is you want to make re this ?

Just assume you know nothing, don't believe nothing but your own experience and every day take an explorer mindset and find out what's true for you right now in this particular situation. Be prepared to change that "truth" fundamentally the next day. Repeat.

Can't say for sure how it is for others, but I pretty much with @Hojo : Don't do anything about it, go through the experience. In the end was good for me to go though a very tough period. Don't know if you can awaken without going through the "negative" emotions. I could not experience significant changes before I did. Also, I would not make it so much about ND or not it's just a story. People experiences reality different, that's it. Rest is a story from a voice in your head that's not "you"

Yeah, agree. I came here to make a joke "if you're struggling with pick up - then stop doing pick up " Which is more or less what you're saying 😅 The distinction hot/not hot girl, success/no success costs lot of energy. A guy many years ago had a great little trick. He told me before going out together: "Tonight , you and me, we smile at everyone we make eye contact with. EVERYONE. Young, old, man, woman, your type, not your type, doesn't matter." Also agree with @aurum - being strategic with time is valuable additional step.

Ok. Point taken. But then I wonder: if that's your POV, that reality can not be described, then why bother to participate in a discussion about description of reality at all?

You can make that point with ANY answer, no matter the content. Language is conditioned in a way that one word 1 or symbol 1 must be explained by another word 2 or symbol 2. But how you then define this word 2 with word 3 etc etc Descriptions are, like ultimate causality, limited and their coherence dissolves at some point. Any description is in the end BS. John Lilly once said he starts his workshop with "everything I say is a lie. Because it's not the experience itself." Let's switch symbols. Let's call reality now "tomato soup" and circular now "butter" and answer we call "horse" So your point is that breakingthewall's horse regarding tomato soup is butter. Don't mistake the map for the territory. Look where the finger is pointing to, not the finger. Part of us is addicted to words, concepts, thinking. As Ralston would say, just stop doing that.

Funny, I also thought I should have done military service. Did civil service, but I think I would have benefited more from temporary military service. I regret not being more confident about what I want in life. Too scared, too shy, too insecure. Not telling the girl that I like her, not risking that action in business, not opening my mouth when I felt like speaking up.

Funny how you phrase it, with naming "chronic stress". Fits perfectly my experience. There was a time last year where my activities did cause tremendous stress over ~ half a year. I suffered a lot and I couldn't meditate more then few minutes after a sth you might call destabilisation, breakdown, identity loss, dark night of the soul or whatever. Part of me had to die for others to emerge. Was no fun lol People knowing me literallly asked me "is what your doing actually good for you?" At first, the answer was clearly "yes". I wanted to continue this path. And I did. Something dep inside told me to go on, don't know what or why After a while, I said yes but was kinda lying to myself without fully realizing it Then I realized slowly that I was lying to myself. That my curve of well being took a sharp downward turn in the last months. I went to my personal rock bottom. Lowest point of my life. I asked for help. Literally and metaphorically. I received it. Now, everything makes sense. I reap the benefits of the whole development curve. My life quality is significantly better then 1 year ago and increasing. Won't go into details, but now I (believe to) understand the process I have been going through very well. It seems quite simple once I started to see clearly. The error is IMO to believe that "survival" and "tattiwigwanda" are different directions, or conflicting goals, or different priorities. I am 100% convinced that once you crossed the Rubicon, and you see reality as it is, it becomes incredibly and undeniably clear that's the VERY SAME THING. I dare to bet that once you can only intuit what I am pointing at you'll laugh out loud at the absurdity of separating these two concepts in the first place. Once I crossed a certain line, my attitude towards myself and my interactions with people change TREMENDOUSLY and irreversibly. And what's survival about? How you relate to yourself, and how you relate to others, and how these to relations are expressed within your chosen environment.

Ok

"Just because the rabbit screams louder then the carrot, it doesn't mean it's more alive" 🥕 Not saying it's true. But it's one way of seeing this topic.

For me it was always clear that my efforts - you can call it "spiritual work" or "tatawiggwanda" I don't care about the labeling - are directed towards personal well-being. I did not attend Vipassana retreats to "awaken", or to find God. I attended them first and foremost because I had the impression that they increased my quality of life. Finding an unexplainable "something" you might call God happened as a side effect. Whoever put the idea in your mind that you have to "neglect your psychological well being for spiritual pursuit" is IMO an idiot.

+1 Fits my experience. Your mind filters automatically what it considers relevant. Relevance = what is required now, what is useful, what is applicable, what can be integrated. I re-read a book currently that I read about 2.5 years ago last time. And I'm thinking "oh shit how could I not get this back then? How could I not see that? The information was there, right in front of me"

You would not offer it at least once? Gently asking without expectations?

Why not ask him? Hi Bro, I would like to introduce you to krya yoga. 1) how interested are u in this? If yes: 2) From your POV, how do I do the intro best ?

I sometimes feel the same - as if life creates situations to test me No matter what it really is - the way you contextualized it seems super helpful and constructive to me. "Emotional regulation challenge" and "feel and let go". All the rest is just a story. Crazy how much more control I experience in my life by simply letting to of control. Experience it. Stop creating stories or expectations. Feel it. Move on. Repeat. The funny thing of course is also that the "life of testing me" is also a story. What's happening is simply "A situation occurs. This situation causes an reaction that I can observe within the framework of my body"

Back then , I was too tired to structure the information in a high quality manner. Typing on cellphone did not help either. Summarizing and paraphrasing are HUGE re right understanding, 100% agree. Once I could see the patterns, it's crazy how dominant thinking, labeling, categorizing is in our culture. Watching Joe Hudson in action doing coaching also left a giant impression on me. With a lot of love, and charme, and care he cuts through that. To paraphrase him in simplified way: "I'm gonna stop you talking right here. If you continue this story, you just gonna make it harder for both of us. Ok you say you feel XYZ (anger, sadness, incompetence,...) How you know that?Where you feel that in your body? Ok, Feel that. Love that part. You can't ? There's resistance? Ok, feel that. Love that resistance. You say don't know how to do that? You say you can't because reality is XYZ? Stop creating that story. You know how. You just did it. Stop the story, stop labeling, just do it."

A user recently wrote sth like "if you believe that Leo is a highly evolved human then he successfully fooled you" (I would add - you successfully fooled yourself) Drop this assumption you wrote in bold, and then suddenly everything makes sense. He portrays himself in a certain way. But (almost?) nobody knows him in person, we only known this public image. And in public you only show what you want to show, right? Just from time to time, the mask of this carefully created image of "I know, I'm so smart, I'm so evolved etc " slips. Looks at the actions, not the words. Again, then everything makes sense. Also, Leo makes all this big metaphysical and ontological claims, a lot of them based on... sample size of one person and "truthful" psychedelic experiences. Typically experienced people dealing with consciousness warn about the risk to make such claims. They get humble and say that they see high possibility that these high state experiences only project what they want to see - God, infinity, love etc etc - and not the "truth". See also split Brain experiments that emphasize get limited explanatory power of subjective experience. But it's necessary for Leo's identity of superiority and "knowing " to make these claims, to portray him as "more awake then anyone else " etc etc. So much pride, so much tension, so much ego. Personally, I wouldn't even trust him to tie my shoe laces.

@Natasha Tori Maru pretty much concept or labeling vs. direct experience and egoic structure driving this, yes. Information for the sake of information, pathological thinking in form of labeling, desire of control disguised as "understanding", egoic identity forming through subjective "truths". Could have been more short and precise in last post 😂 @Xonas Pitfall tell the hot witch seductress to bring her friends, there are more use cases for them

This gender stuff seem to be a core believe of his identity. These core pillars die hard. More open minded social interaction especially with women might change his mind, but for this one would need to interact IRL and expose oneself to certain situations that have been avoided. How practical it is that "superior cognitive thinker" traditionally live isolated, isn't it?