theleelajoker

Nope. Harmful narrative created in your own head IMO. Pointing out the dangers of projection, showing how one can hide behind seemingly meta analysis instead of acting in your direct field of awareness and thus avoiding confrontation. You say you want just to know if others see things like you, and if they don't, then "they are triggered" or "they are protecting women". Whatever, live your life

Always wanted to be free. Always wanted to know how the world works. Studied economics. Felt like that became a dead end. With nothing better to do, entered a corporate career track. Few years in, got a gf from underground techno scene, started backpacking, visited my first big festivals (Ozora). Tried psychedelics stronger then weed then first time. Felt like "what the fuck am I doing here?" and "Oh shit what is this that I am suddenly feeling?". Soon after, I quit my job, my relationship, my flat and left with a one way ticket, not knowing if I ever return to my home country. Did Vipassana first time 2019. Changed a lot. Continued doing it, and combined with personal growth, psychedelics, traveling, it changed everything. Often felt that the "thing" that is most in my way is myself. So I looked for solutions for that. Came to the conclusions that the solution does not seem to be that much in the conscious, not on the surface but somewhere deeper. This year I realized that all I ever thought about life is wrong so I am adapting to this recognition. Other then that, I got again and again incredibly fucking lucky, with life gifting me situations, people, opportunities.

Is this how you experience reality? That's how your life looks, almost no thoughts / fears? Or are your questions based outside of direct subjective experience?

Yeah I have been complaining a bit above, but it's actually a good filter, too. Makes it more and more clear what's important for me, what works, what doesn't

@SchizophoniaInteresting take btw. I get you right, you're saying it's about taking responsibility for your experience vs. seeing yourself as victim?

Ok. 1) Not having the same observation you are having. 2) Among an infinity of topics to report your observations, you choose THIS ONE. What's the real reason? Many things are big part of our life.

@OBElerTwo things I wonder: First: Why does it matter so much what general "women" do or don't do? If you want to have a positive impact, then why not talk to the women in your direct sphere of influence instead posting here? Or establish an organization to help women develop their potential, or whatever...don't know where you are going with this. Re some random women in the links above, your post won't change anything, will it? Second: I see enough men in my city, in my circle of people sitting around smoking, getting drunk, talking tits and ass, and other BS. You can ALWAYS pick examples where human do some stuff you don't think it "good" "right" "productive" etc. As far as I can see it as of now: You experience - at least to a large degree - what you project on others via believes, thoughts, actions, your energetic structure. Don't know how exactly it works. But I have a lot of discussions with a lot of women about a lot of abstract stuff, truth etc. The more I dive into these topics, the more I talk about it , the more it happens. Yesterday afternoon I met a woman I now from school, we spent most of the time talking about abstract things. Last night I was out in a club, met a girl on the dance floor, we later talked. She talked about a hike she will be doing, on her own, one week. Because she wants to experiences solitude and silence. Since she was interested in silence, I mentioned Vipassana, she was very interested and asked me very abstract, very pointed questions about absolute silence, reflections across humans, the point of absolute stillness she wonders about etc. There was another one, same club, same night, I talked to while waiting in line, we talked about existence and the choices you might have or nor have in existing. Discussions like that happens a lot to me, not long ago another girl explained to me her perspective of the dimension of time, how she thinks we humans experience time, how she can dive into time/space dimensions during certain experiences etc. Thursday I'll meet with another woman, she's has been doing a lot of Vipassana and want to dig deeper, we first meet at mediation event and then catch up later. I could go on, just giving examples that it happens regularly for me and that there are - in my field of awareness - plenty of women talking about truth, idealistic things, etc etc. And before you say "it's your area it's not happening where I live" - naaaah, happens everywhere for me. Recently, we had a discussion in another thread, about how awaken you are due to psychedelics, and how you see how reality is created..can't you see how you have an impact in creating the kind of people you are meeting in daily life? They are not fully external and independent from you, so if you only see women that are not interested in these things, and I see a lot of them...how come? It is really that "women" are like that? Give it a thought, that's all I can say

Haha No I just change my baseline of expectations

Possible. Can't rule that out. Have seen situations - with me or others - where I think the interaction was clearly as you said, coined by "how do I now not hurt him/her?" But doesn't not seem likely in most cases I'm talking about. It's a different vibe I believe to perceive. Would apply if the woman was not good with setting boundaries or standing up for herself in general. To avoid the situation you describe above I often give explicitly the option I think the person is afraid of. So I give options "we can do x, or y or z". Could be that even then, the woman is afraid to say what she really wants. But then there's nothing in the world anyone can do for her (or him, as you said it goes both ways) Addition: sometimes it just feels that the nervous system is set on "flight" from old experiences. Been there myself.

Yeah. Don't know either. Weird, funny, mysterious, entertaining, frustrating and wonderful amazing thing, this life stuff.

Too complex to make conclusions from my experience to how it might be for you. Infinite variables. But for entertainment purposes only, that's my experience: I could feel a huge difference starting with the first retreat (10 days). Most impact faded after 2-3 months , but some stuck forever. Like breaking the ice, but not swimming in the frozen lake. Not yet. But now I know there's water beyond the frozen surface. Some differences after second retreat, but nothing that jumped out in daily life. Dipping my toes into the water. Probing. Third and fourth retreat was in rapid succession, and this was like jumping in the frozen lake, and diving to the ground. Social anxiety, for instance , after the integration of last two retreats is very close to zero almost all the time Other things are still ongoing but trending in very good direction.

Again I think there is a misunderstanding. First, change of mind is one thing. What I mean is a that I get from the other person a sense of being torn inside. Once I know the baseline of a person, it's relatively easy to feel if a person is 100% behind some actions or if there is inner conflict. Choice of words, talking speed, tone of words, eyes, body language. Are there assumptions I take? Sometimes more, sometimes less. But massive amount of hypothesis testing in professional and private life give enough data to know I'm far more often right then wrong. And it seems this inner conflict mentioned above can be solved (or greatly reduced) by becoming more present - unfiltered feeling, seeing, sensing and interacting with what is around you right now - instead continuing the past by projecting past experiences on the present surrounding. Second: it's in the context of dating, but I have the same impression with men. Just not with dating because I'm hetero. And third, regarding the blame game: For one, every experience takes two to dance, right? So I wonder if I could do, or not do something different, also I ask sometimes to learn. Don't know what I don't know. And well, everyone is a reflection of me, too. That's why I believe to see the mechanism so clearly. I still experience it too sometimes, just different, in different situations. So I wonder sometime what would happen if I was present all the time and if my life was never full of inner conflict, if I never carried the past into the present, or never think about the future. Would such interactions like the one im describing disappear from my field of awareness? Don't know yet but I m getting closer to finding out.

Vipassana retreats. Nothing helped me more re interactions and anxiety, nothing helped me more get out of my head. It's not that it's all gone suddenly in one big bang, it might not be a straight path, it might take a while, it might take a while to integrate, you might change in a way you never expected. But if I had to name one thing for me that helped me with the things you mention above, it's Vipassana retreats. And I would do them again knowing what I know now and feeling what feel now.

Ah misunderstanding No I don't remember that sth like that ever occurred. Definitely not the norm. When it gets that far you vibed together, she feels safe and comfortable, and both just enjoy the experience. What I'm taking about is what happens afterwards. You meet another time, and in my perspective everything is fine. I'm the same guy from a few days ago, and she's the same. But the wheels in the mind start working and I (believe) I can see how suddenly there is contraction in interactions, Iess freedom, more thinking, more fear. But it's not about me being a threat to her - she already been with me so there is a level of trust established. And she decided to meet again, so there is at least some interest, some attraction. But there is an inner conflict. There is doubt, fear, a signal that seems to tell "get out of here as fast as you can". And this is what confuses me because it has IMO NOTHING to do with the present moment. It's all projection on me, personal fears, thoughts about future or some strategy how to handle men and how to make them do sth. And all I think is: Ok just stay, let's go for a drink, a walk, a snack, whatever, come back to the present moment and you will see that you're fine. It's all good and every part in your body except for this signal shows that you subconsciously know that all is fine. All you need to do is not make up an artificial reason to leave. Again, this is not what happens every time. Many women, many situations, many different patterns. But I have seen it myself a couple of times and I have been told stories where I (believe to) recognize this pattern, by my female friends or when my gf talked about her female friends. They then tell some strange reasons why they could not spent more time with this guy and don't see that actually it's just this fear they create themselves by not being present

Ok get it. No doubt lots of emotions and can't know how it for women obviously. I can only share my observations and interpretations. And in this context then also important to remember what you mentioned before - recognizing and showing gratitude when guys treat you well. And gratitude just means for me not to project negative expectations and ideas about him leaving, it's only about sex for him, he's not serious, he doesn't want to see me again etc on the man. That's it, just don't be in your thoughts & fears but give it a fair chance.

Definitely there's part of me that simply doesn't like things going my way But it's too dramatic the way you describe it IMO. And instincts are one thing, but modern society is not the same as animal life. It's about balancing the animal instincts with a certain awareness about what is possible now. Life allows us to be present and have a eye on the future at the same time. Rhetoric question: How many men have you been with (out of professional life) and how often did you get pregnant? Not everyone wants children, and certainly not at every life stage. It's too simple to put everything on pregnancy + everyone can be dumped by everybody any time, there's no guarantee, you have to take some risk in life. Plus, you have an influence re how successful the relationship will be

Forget about all strategies on how to achieve XYZ. Stop looking for a solution, a puzzle piece. Talk to people. As authentic as possible. Say you're shy if your shy. Everyone is in some way or another. I met girls that became interested in me a day where I felt so shitty about myself that I barely could leave the house. Women even got interested in my when I was an unattractive teenager with bad skin. Why? I don't know but I never followed a strategy on 'how to attract women" back then. Stop projecting like "I am XYZ " or "women feel like ABC" about me. Some time ago, I talked to a girl in a restaurant, sitting alone on the table next to me. Later she was like "why you approached me?" I told her it went, and that I had a doubt because why should a beautiful woman like her be interested in me and not in 1000 seemingly more attractive guys? She smiled. "You wondered why you? Well, why not you?" Turned out she really liked me since she saw me, and I liked her. Bottom line: thoughts can become assumptions, projections. They need to be tested. At least 99% of time, they're wrong and / or incomplete

Thanks for this little view into female thinking. Seems valuable in some aspects - boundaries, independent - but others stuff seems harmful for me (depending heavily in context of course). Don't chase? Why not I think it's shows great maturity if a women do actively express what she wants instead of acting like a teenager girl. Of course, chasing in desperate context is not good. And not being too available - this is one of the greatest mindfucks I have seen with women. She's lying next to me, I can see she likes me, she even says so, I feel she loves spending time with me, I can read her body language, she wants be hold and cuddled....and then I can see her eyes narrowing. Her forehead becomes tense. Her breath changes. And then something like "I need to go, I have an appointment, I need distance etc etc" is happening 😂 I can literally see the wheely turning in her head, I can feel she's taken out of the moment, I can observe how - consciously or subconsciously - a concept, a strategy is a remembered and implemented. Huge turnoff for me. It's the equivalent to pick up bullshit on the females site and a disqualifier for long term relationship. We are having a good time? You feel good? I feel good? There's no reason you need to leave except your mind telling you to not be "too available?" (In other cases, it's likely fear of intimacy). Ok stay and let's enjoy the time together. Nothing lasts forever. There will be enough separation because of friends, works, hobbies etc. We feel good in this moment, let's have a good time now

Yeah funny would love to hear what women think and say in these discussions 😂

I have seen and heard it a lot. Lots of friends/ acquaintances are involved in this, so literal pick up with coaches, podcast, books. And going beyond literal pick up, almost everyone likes to get laid right? Could be reflection of me, since it's all within my awareness, but women and how to get laid is huge topic across almost every man I know. And online, and in media, and in movies, etc etc Can't say with say certainly about women, but men SEEM to be almost equally important for them, as far as I get this information from females friends and my gfs or sister. Likely different intentions, different content, but still about men.

Nice text with good examples

I agree on the transactional that @Princess Arabia mentions. It's always an exchange of SOMETHING. Can be something material, with money being the most flexible & smooth good to trade. Could be a buying a dinner, or preparing dinner for someone, then we move towards providing a service. Can be emotional, for instance, this person makes me feel good, makes me accept myself more. Or simply attention given, understanding, listening. On a different level, it can be an energy exchange, where we don't really know what's being exchanged or how we just feel a certain way. And it's kind of contradictory, we do create all feelings in ourselves but still we kind of need others, external stimulus in this reality. Hugging myself is not the same as cuddling with a woman. And the smell, touch or taste of a woman is something that I did not find a substitute for. Damn those pheromones Regarding ethics, I think it's much more about HOW EXACTLY you do it vs. WHAT. So I believe there can be win-win situations, but I also believe it can become a mental/ material prison depending on the background of the persons involved. I also think escorts can in some way be a little bit like a therapist, just spending time and giving attention.

Hm I can somehow relate. Not the first part, but the theme of "meet a girl we have great time emotionally, physically, doing stuff, getting along well and then suddenly she's not interested in spending more time" Personally, I am not so much into the "guys are like X and boys are like Y", for me that's one thing to get some grounding. Making up as little stories as possible. Yeah the bonding can happen if you're open, but time will show that you will bond with more people. It's less about the others, and more about you IME. The activities you mention all already good things IMO. For me, it's about building a system: Physical: Get in your body, and get the stress out of your body. Breath work, yoga, pilates, basketball,sauna, meditation, singing... whatever works for you. Feel whatever is there, don't push it away. Do things that calm down your nervous system. Cuddling is great but you need a human or pet for this Mental: being aware, being present, seeing your thoughts, learning to better steer and concentrate your attention. I better recognize when I am outside my current field of awareness, or in the past/future. One thing I do for instance is telling myself "relax", silently in my head as much as possible. No matter what I do, cleaning, writing this text, sports, interactions with others... whenever I notice I'm not relaxed, I do this. Another thing is telling myself that I don't need person XYZ to be happy, but in a positive way "Right now I have everything I need". Last girl I saw, she gave me a nice warm feeling in the heart area. But it was still my body, my feeling, you know? It's still created inside me. The whole mental part, John C Lewis Lily would probably call it "reprogramming" of your Bio computer. I think @Hojo recommend here once re karma - simply don't react. Stay relaxed no matter what and karma will leave Social: 1) Meet friends and people that you're not interested in romantically. 2) Practically, there is an infinite amount of wonderful women. Yeah so if she doesn't want to be with you - her choice. You're great the way you are and if she doesn't want to be with you, and you stay cool with it, reality will put you into touch with someone else that is a better fit. Don't search for it, but be open - you enjoy the process of finding your match as much as the (potential) result. Smile, interact, relax stand for what is important for you. If she doesn't appreciate you, is she worth your attention? If things start like that, how would a relationship continue? Journaling: just started, seems a great tool. Hope that helps. Some things work better sometimes, then less another time. It's a process for me. In any case - enjoy brother, be happy

Hmm seems we are generally aligned. Maybe some difficulties with words, with language, who means what with what term. Recognition, intuition, sensing, knowing, feeling, being aware, ... pointers that try to describe sth that is hard to describe for me. Also, English is not my first language so subtle details in meaning can be hard for me.

Yes I think we have some similarities re these interactions My experience align with the variations of interaction that you describe. Happy when people come back with a smile And slowly I'm more or less becoming ok with first becoming close to people and them then becoming distant. Or with them not compatible at all form the start. And it's ok with acquaintance or stranger. But has veen harder for me to find the right girlfriend because the shift from them literally saying "this is great love being with you" to "ok I need to be alone" is different when I build trust myself over months. And the shift happened in a very rapid and surprising way. Gonna think about the intensity you learned to tone down. One the one hand, makes sense. On the other, I don't want to be someone I am not. What I see is that adults are often same as kids - strategies of maximizing attention. Some strategies are healthy, some are less. And if you give honest attention to people without them needing to use their "unhealthy" strategies, that's of course very welcome by the human organism