mr_engineer

I think it could work if both sides are being intellectually honest. It is true that both sides are partial. So, if both sides are intellectually honest, it is not possible for both sides to stay stuck as they are! Cuz they will have to see information that they were previously missing, which they necessarily were, because their perspectives were partial. A reasonable Tier-2 person will close their mind in a debate only if the other side is totally full of shit, i.e. there is no kernel of truth in what they're saying. Such a debate must heat up. This will happen if and only if one side is being intellectually dishonest. So, if I were a mod, I would moderate for intellectual honesty rather than the style of communication. The problem with this is that you will only get information that you ask for, i.e. information that you know that you don't know. But, usually, there's important information that's subconscious, i.e. that which you don't know that you don't know. If the objective of the forum is to help us raise our level of consciousness together, wouldn't this be important? I would argue that everyone who's on here wants change. You don't watch Leo's hours-long videos, which are very challenging to the ego in and of themselves and then come back here for seconds if you don't want change! Please, @Leo Gura, give us that much credit. Having said that, the reality is that we are influenced very heavily by a Tier-1 world around us. So, there will be people who will come in with the attitude of 'This is what I think. Change my mind', Steven Crowder style. They're essentially asking for a debate! I understand what you're saying and I can do this. But, I think that a lot of people simply won't be able to figure out how to meet these standards of communication because of what I'm saying here.

It sounds like you've had problems with your parents, which is why when things started to go well, the unfamiliarity of it intimidated you. It sounds more like your negative self-worth sabotaged a good relationship for you and you let it. And, I think you're going to regret this for a good long while. 'Something was off'. If you'd been a little more patient, if nothing else, this 'something' would've shown itself and clarified itself for you. And, you would've learned a thing or two from this experience. You don't sit alone in a room and learn about relationships, you need to be in them to learn about them. What makes you think that you couldn't have done all of this while being in a relationship?! Self-actualization doesn't have to be done alone in a room, it can be done out there, as a social activity.

It's because you're not taking every individual woman so seriously anymore. Good mindset to be in when you're sleeping around. However, things may change when you start trying to get into a relationship. Because what your girlfriend thinks about your looks and personality will be everything. And, treating her as 'disposable' will turn into a cope. I'd suggest you work out those insecurities before getting into dating, honestly. If you want a smooth journey to having a relationship.

Here's the thing, though - if I just wanted to deconstruct myself, I could just sit alone in a room and contemplate, right?! That would do the job. One of the big value-points of this forum is that we get to deconstruct each other, knowingly entering the room with this attitude. This is something unique that your forum offers that almost nobody else offers, precisely because you know and talk about Spiral-Dynamics. And, the way this is achieved, correct me if I'm wrong, is through debating, right? The debates here tend to be of the highest quality I've seen. This is how we help each other deconstruct ourselves through this forum, so to speak. Through debating. If I'm making an ego-post, I want someone to debate me and prove me wrong! (Unlike other echo-chambers out there, who can't pull this off cuz intellectual-honesty isn't a value of theirs) Because if it's coming from ego, there's something wrong with it. The way I even know whether it's an ego-post is if it gets proven wrong! My point is, I'm not fully able to put my finger on how to practically embody this posting etiquette. If you could shine more light on this, that would be appreciated. Thx.

Maybe you need to do better than 'any good girlfriend', then. What is unique about you, that they should choose you over other girls that also offer this? Them being resentful is not your fault. If they want someone else, they should go get them. But, from your perspective, you can change the situation by competing against other women for him. You do that, they'll value you more! Cuz value is relative.

@Tyler Robinson What do you have to offer to a guy apart from your looks? This smells of them only valuing you for your looks. And, once they get you, they got the validation of being with a 'hot girl' and it doesn't satisfy them once, so they chase it again. You may want to look at issues with codependency and self-worth in order to break out of the pattern of attracting these kinds of guys. Cuz they will also be narcissistic and ask you to abandon your boundaries to be with them. Making promises that they break.

That's even dumber. I keep bringing this up cuz when push comes to shove, a stupid person is going to hold you back. That's shallow. Change the crowd you hang out with. Go to New-Age communities. The women there are truly embodying their femininity. That's low in self-awareness. Go for women who kinda know themselves, to have some compatibility. If you don't do that, they'll sabotage the relationship unconsciously cuz they're codependent and resentful. I'm telling you, don't deal with people who don't respect you or else you'll resent them and then you'll curse them, which isn't good long-term. See the harsh realities about people but don't demonize them for it. They're unconscious and they have their own struggles.

Then they're educated morons. A degree does not prove your smartness! Especially in today's times. In fact, some argue that not going to college means that you're smarter, cuz you didn't take on the debt. See it as incompetence on their part to show up on time and stick to their word. They can't stick to their word on a date, how are they going to do so in relationships?! Really, their bad.

@StarStruck Go for smarter women, raise your standards. Someone who flakes on you doesn't respect you. And you should pick up on that before asking them out. They're generally not going to have good communication-skills either, which is why they break their word. Cuz that's what we're really talking about when we talk about flaking. Never put up with this behavior. She flakes once, you delete her number and forget about her. No time for morons. And have a similar attitude towards other bullshit manipulation-games and 'shit-tests'. It's all stupidity. Cut it out.

@Antor8188 Depends on whether they're running in the rat-race. If they are, then it'll take the form of 'hypergamy', where they're looking for the richer guy. This tends to be a complaint of Stage Orange guys who are materialistic themselves. But, if they're out of it and they see that materialism won't make them happy, if they're spiritual and they have an understanding of femininity and they're able to embody that, they won't be selfish. This is not very different from men, honestly. Everyone who's running in the rat-race is fundamentally selfish.

@onacloudynight Society is pretty much on the verge of collapse anyways. So, it's understandable that you feel the way you do, it's not your fault. People will get karmic return for what they did. You can leave that to the universe. You don't have to be the one to 'do justice', so to speak. Focus on yourself and you'll be fine. I'll be the first one to say this - given where society is headed, it's hard to not be angry, honestly. A big point I'll make is - put the blame where it belongs. Don't buy into this conditioning that 'you are to blame for everything', because you're not. And, apart from yourself, extend this support to other innocent people who are not to blame. Don't blame the wrong people. There are people in this matrix who are in the matrix and are 'just doing their jobs' (or 'just following orders' as the Nazis said). It really is like a video-game, with the NPCs, with everything. If you start to see it that way, things become a lot less serious.

If you're older, meetup.com is a much better alternative.

What do the SJWs really want?! Someone said they don't want to suppress healthy masculinity, right?!

Feminists have one job, which is to bully teenage-boys and suppress their masculinity. And they're starting to fail at even that now!! Because content teaching about masculinity is available online. And they're too slow to cancel all of the content-creators. Their karma of cancel-culture will catch up with them pretty shortly, in that case! Cuz this time, they'll be the ones getting cancelled.

@John Paul @Aiwass @hoodrow trillson I love your excuses. Just brilliant. Beautiful. To anyone watching this discussion - you can't make this shit up!

The part where he talks about how the 14-year-old wouldn't get bullied by his sister into not being masculine because he was practicing stoicism, was the best. Makes me feel hope for the future. This video has the solution to feminism. This is how you beat feminists! And reclaim your masculinity from them. 'I tried to bully him into stopping, but he's learned to be stoic from the videos. What do I do?! He will become a man now, and that's inherently toxic!!'

Because he's not complaining about her. He's saying 'yeah, she has these character-flaws, but we all have them and I can handle them'. Well, good, then! No reason to change anything. There's no absolute 'good' or 'bad'. I'm looking at it from his perspective and forming my attitude accordingly.

There are dangers to dumping a neurotic, messy woman, actually. You don't want her to turn into a psycho ex or something, you want to preferably end it on good terms with someone who's going to take it personally. And, you have entanglements with such a person, you definitely have dysfunctional patterns to work with that are keeping you stuck with such a woman. You could be a high-value person, for sure. But, the relationship is a mess! And, the priority should not be to replace the person you're with, it should be to fix the relationship. Or else, you're not, in fact, going to get another high-value person. The next person you'll get will be even worse, in fact, if you don't change yourself first. This is what it takes to make changes. That's why, my suggestion is that if you're comfortable and you're not bothered by her neuroses, it's relatively trivial shit for you to deal with, don't unnecessarily do anything to rock the boat!

Breaking up and finding another woman is a very, very tall ask in terms of lifestyle-change. So, if she doesn't bother you, why change anything?! Things just look comfy right now. Think about making changes when shit hits the fan. The reason for this is that you need to have a justification for her too. If she does something nasty/despicable because of her issues, or if you're able to pre-empt some bad shit happening as a result of her issues, focus on resolving those first. Then, think about breaking up. Because then, you'll have the right rationale/justification for doing so.

Okay, I will shut up now, cuz I don't want to be shadow-banned. But thank you for proving my point about cancel-culture. 'Political nonsense' At least, come up with a better excuse. Come on, Leo. You can do it. I'm a scientist. Show some respect to my credentials. And prove to me that you don't ban reasonable opinions by credentialed people, will you?! That's how you prove to me that this isn't a shadow-ban threat. You use the shadows of owning a forum, I use the shadows of owning credentials.

Those who did prove it, those who did leak information, got cancelled and silenced as 'conspiracy-theorists'. I know how the scientific-establishment works, how they create in-groups and out-groups. Right now, they have such a stronghold on everyone's minds that they can cancel anyone just by showing their credentials! They're spending millions and billions of taxpayer's money to fight each other and divide and rule the world. But, when it's time to fill their own pockets, they unite! And keep in mind that it's their armies doing the fighting. They're sitting pretty in their castles as billionaires!! The whole 'enemy' thing is in theory. In practice, everyone else who's an elite is their friend and ambitious middle-class people are their enemy. And they want to exert control over the lower classes by abusing the government. So, they're coming up with tricks to destroy democracy. They're professional marketers, brand-managers of billion-dollar companies. They're very good at what they do. In a war, they have to be partisan and pick sides. But, in business, if you fairly lost a vaccine-war and you complain about it, no one's going to listen to you. They lose credibility when they lose the vax-war! And they also understand this. Business comes first, nationalism comes second. They won't throw stones on other people's houses when their own house is made of glass. Anti-vaxxers do show evidence. The scientific-establishment just refuses to accept it! And they use brute-force to cancel anti-vaxxers, which is why you'll never see it on the mainstream. Alt-media has answers on this front. They're doing everything you're saying they could do. This is a very, very partisan environment. The alt-media, which has been heavily cancelled, shines light on this evidence. The elite are going to try to destroy the evidence of their own wrong-doings. But, they'll let go of people personally attacking them, because no one takes that shit seriously!! They don't care about their image, they only care about the image of their actions. Which they want people to trust. This is how they maintain their power. A big hint - look past your materialist-paradigm. There is no one materialist-paradigm, everyone has a different materialist-paradigm. But, the education-system and scientific-establishment is not conscious of this, which is precisely why they currently believe in indoctrination.

Pfizer revenue 2021 - $81 billion Sinopharm revenue 2021 - $77 billion. Reason - it really doesn't matter to most people which vaccine they get. What people end up getting is pure hit and trial at the end of the day. They're not reading WHO articles before getting them! They're looking at social-media disclaimers saying that 'all vaccines are safe and effective' and randomly selecting any vaccine. I'm not making a demand. I'm making a point, that what they've said isn't that outrageous. They're not saying that the Chinese vaccine is trash, they're just saying that theirs is better. And that this is not a legitimate foothold for anti-vaxxers to defame them. So, they're being sophisticated in their marketing/competitive-strategy while shielding out anti-vaxxers!

They didn't call the Chinese vaccine total trash. This is not something that anti-vaxxers can work with, honestly. It's surface-level tussles, it's not an all-out war to crush the competition. The people they really want to crush, are the anti-vaxxers. Cuz if the anti-vaxxers are proven right, that's an existential threat to their business. So, you do everything in your power to cancel anti-vaxxers. This is not just for this specific industry, this specific crisis or even this specific class of people. In any business competition, an unwritten rule is that you protect the fundamental image of the product itself first. Then, you compete based on your quality vs their quality, your price vs their price. You try to give a better deal than your competitors, but you don't attack the fundamental image of your product just to destroy competition.

@zurew https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/safety-of-covid-19-vaccines WHO says that 'Vaccines have been found to be safe and effective in people with various underlying medical conditions that are associated with increased risk of severe disease.' This is the disclaimer that all of the social-media giants give when anyone talks about the vax. They're talking about all the vaccines here. Not just Pfizer-vaccine. Why?! Because they don't want to overtly promote the brand, saying that 'It's our vaccine, not their vaccine'. Even if they're the market-leaders. Why? Because the priority is the image of the 'vaccine', as a product. They know that there are conspiracy-theories floating around and they feel the need to give out this disclaimer to people who are skeptical or 'vaccine-hesitant', as they call it. This is how they branded their product in this marketing-environment.

@zurew They did not want to give anti-vaxxers a single foothold. They wanted to present all vaccines as 'safe and effective'. As I said, they would want to maintain the image of the product way more than competing against the West. If they published something against Pfizer-vaccine, would Pfizer stay silent about their vaccine?! Pfizer would pay anti-vax researchers to publish something on the Chinese and Russian vaccine! And, everyone would suffer as a result of it. They understand this, which is why they don't engage in this competitive behavior. The elite-class protects their own. This is not unique to the elite-class, even the middle-class and working-class protect their own.