Razard86

You said: Some of this is true but it is important to distinguish between primitivism and pre-history. Many ancient and non-Western cultures also practised monogamy: Hindu India, Traditional China and even ancient Egypt largely practised monogamy (of course the realities of sexuality are always more complex and some people within these groups practiced polygamy). Be careful with the words you use, you said some of this was true....which parts are the sum. Humanity started as hunter-gatherers. Tribes were formed through marriage. As a result if an individual obtained a lot of money, then they would get many wives. But what many feminist teachers won't tell you, is that there were two Matriarchal Tribes in Africa where the women were in power and had many husbands and right now in the present day Africa there currently exists a Matriarchal Tribe. I believe they still practice polyamory as well. Now you are using judgmental words calling something primitive. What makes something primitive? I could call bread primitive, prayer primitive, meditation primitive. So explain what makes something primitive? If you say age, then you are not realizing that the foundation of all that we have is built on the old. Notice how as history moves....the new eventually seeks out the old. If that were not true, then why are so many rich celebrities seeking out retreats to engage in ancient traditions. If you pay attention Modern Society is crying out for help and as a result they are going back and researching how ancient people lived because in their eyes 'This ain't it." The people doing this are rich, wealthy, and famous. They have reached the highest heights of the Materialistic, Capitalism's totem pole and are not satisfied. The new will seek the old, the old will seek the new. There is no separation and both are needed. Your logical mind creates this divide through your preferences and stops you from seeing the truth. You said: Some might find it offensive but polygamy generally goes along with a primitive mentality: worship of the totem, pantheistic naturalism, a cult of the body and of matter, paths towards transcendence which are hysterical and Dionysian - often involving the rhythmic convulsions of dance, sex or ritualistic drug use - a feminine spirituality emphasizing the Earth and the Mother, and so on. Polygamous promiscuity can be witnessed even in the West, particularly today given the neo-primitivism of modern Western man. Polyamory isn't promiscuity. Promiscuity is irresponsible sexual behavior and usually under deceptive terms. Also Monogamy has not worked sufficiently if you study divorce rates, and the amount of cheating that has gone on. What you don't understand is it takes a greater form of love to build a polyamorous society. Monogamy is a more selfish form of love and it actually creates more conflict. It is harder to share something you love, it is also harder to trust what you love with others. If you were to enter into a polyamorous society that has figured out how to make it work, those people would be more giving than those in a monogamous society. In fact if you study history the most violent groups were those who practiced monogamy. So explain to me which is the primitive one if you want to use that word. The more loving and accepting society, or the more selfish and violent one? Forgive me for pointing out that your argument here is very narrowly Stage Green, appealing to the wisdom of the primitives as opposed to the domination and oppression of the modern West. This too is a bias. Also, Stage Green should remember that polyandry (a woman having multiple husbands) was much, much rarer than polygyny (a man having multiple wives). Of course, though, you might be right that the traditional monogamous family has exhausted it’s utility. You bring up Spiral Dynamics and you have no clue how it operates. You sitting here talking about Stage Green? Listen closely so I can help you understand....based on Spiral Dynamics....polyamory is going to return. You are talking about bias? I literally told you I have a preference for monogamy. So who is the biased one? The one who prefers monogamy but can see the value in polyamory? Or the one who demonizes it and likens it to what they call primitive culture? You are stuck deep in dogma that predates your birth and you don't even realize it. Again if you were paying attention to how human history works you would realize that polyamory is going to return because it takes a higher expression of love to both create a polyamory society and maintain it. You think it primitive because you are selfish and have fears. Monogamy is the desire to possess someone. True love allows someone the freedom to come and go as they please. It allows them to act and accept them as they are. You don't even realize how silly it sounds to demonize polyamory. Couple of reasons. 1. All distinctions of family, friends etc. is just delusion. You cannot claim to come from the same ONE source and claim only one is your family. ALL is your family. This is so obvious it make no sense to try to argue otherwise. That means all those distinctions are delusion!! Even if you don't believe in all that and believe in evolution. All life would STILL COME from the same source and thus....its connected. You cannot escape this connection. 2. So if everybody comes from the same source and is family, then why should you care if your lover sleeps with another lover. They are your family. Now if you both agreed NOT to do that, then it is different. But why would you want to limit your partner's desire to express their love? You want to limit it because you are selfish. This selfishness has been normalized so much that you defend it. But when you look at it from the Meta perspective...its laughable, its childish. 3. A polyamorous group would be greater connected, because they have all bonded with each other at the highest level. A group like this can actually achieve collective telepathy. You see you don't even understand the true purpose of sex. Sex is the union of not just body, but your entire being. High Conscious people have the best sex. They LITERALLY BECOME ONE. So picture a group of highly spiritual people who have done this, they will have the highest union. This actually USE to be case for those "primitive" groups you refer to. They got conquered and killed off to small numbers by those oh so advanced selfish, killing, monogamists you refer to. Those same monogamists who lie, cheat, still, kill, suffer from mental illness, and then kill themselves. Issues that those primitive societies you refer to, barely had.

You literally have not explained how monogamy is wiser. You just said if you want to be in a specific relationship it is wiser. I said explain, not state your belief. Notice, you cannot explain to me why it is wiser. That means it is not your belief but something you took on. A belief is only yours when you can explain why you believe in it. I already stated that entire cultures functioned and they even prospered on polyamory. The only reason monogamy is more common now is because many European cultures have conquered the World and forced their values on to the world. I can make many arguments as to why polyamory is actually a more inclusive form of love and thus more representative of unconditional love than monogamy even though I too have a preference for monogamy. When you only hold views that fit your preferences and are unable to see the value another perspective has then you will be limited and live a limited experience. I see many people come on here and try to talk Spirituality and then literally speak the same things they are told. You have claimed in the past that I parrot (which many on this forum no I don't do). A parrot cannot put things in their own words, a parrot cannot explain their position. So again I ask....why is monogamy better than polyamory. By the way...all hierarchy is delusion but go ahead and explain why it is better and watch me show how none of those points are true.

Those Dark Web Scammers. Now we got Gangsters going on the internet.

If you haven't figured out yet...this world is an ego game. So why wouldn't being the biggest ego get you all the world desires? All the religions have already talked about your current question. Its why Jesus said its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. The pursuit of acquisition conflicts with Spirituality. Spirituality is about learning to release the desire for control, Materialism is all about the desire to gain control. If you want to be a Devil go be a Devil. There are pros and cons. You will find out the cons after you do it. You can't die, you are an infinite being so if you want to experience what it is like then do it. If you try to fake being a loving spiritual person you will just be a devil anyway, just not a very effective devil. If you want to be a devil to get results, then do it all the way. Its your life.

All the best, share how it goes later on!!

Shelly Trimmer

I'm glad you realize it. America and many other modern cultures create mental illness. Then they keep you on the drugs for life. Outside of structural damage/disorders in the brain its all a result of cultural programming.

Everything is relationship. All of existence is a relationship. Explain how it is more wise to have a monogamous relationship over a polyamorous one.

That's just a bias you have. The oldest relationships between men and women was actually polyamorous. It actually takes more effort and love to maintain a polyamorous relationship. In Africa alone entire civilizations were built off these relationships. Monogamy is primarily a Euro-centric relationship style. Since majority of the Modern World has been influenced heavily by European culture monogamy has been normalized and poly demonized.

Yeah I found there are 3 normal paths to God realization. They are near death experiences, Psychedelics, or Meditations. The exceptions to this are random dreams, or visions some people get hit with out of the blue that take them there as well.

Yes this is definitely one of his best videos. Maybe he should do a follow up video. Titled: How your life is a movie.

Yeah one of my weaknesses is I miss when people make jokes...my sense of humor is underdeveloped lol. I agree thanks for stopping my derail my own thread lol.

I agree completely. I'm glad I have the privilege to communicate with someone who really understands what they are talking about. You are correct if there is any agitation, some degree of unhappiness, compulsion, fear, anger, desire to prove something, need for evaluation, it is because of some sort of trauma. No lie there!! Great point!! I totally forgot about that so thanks for the reminder!!! I can honestly say I don't usually have any degree of unhappiness. But I do get agitation when people complain and feel sorry for themselves and beat themselves down. I also fear the divine as I have experienced Ego death and it was....unpleasant lol. I can handle it...but don't like the way it feels lol. So yeah I definitely have some more work to do thanks for the reminder!! Also at one point I was able to see visions...without psychedelics and that scared the crap out of me which made it hard to sleep which made it worse lol.

You are correct that as long as you are at the mercy of the experiences then you are still in the illusion. And with the examples you gave sure, if you are not in your default formless state. I been researching people who had Near Death Experiences and they say our true form is an infinite light. They did say they all merged with an infinite singularity of light. So I would say that infinity you refer to would be the one state you are not in illusion. But the point I'm saying is creation is dream. Its only an illusion because in comparison to the creator (God) its merely an illusion. But when you enter your creation as we have....its real. The point of calling it illusion is to wake you up. When God dreams those dreams are real. Its only illusion because its a dream but since it is a dream conjured up by an infinite all powerful being...its real. You see its paradoxical. I'm trying to get people to stop ignoring the paradox. You know how funny a guy looks going on this forum talking about its all illusion, then when he gets off he is worried about paying his bills or some other nonsense lol. Its better for him to say yes on the Meta level is all illusion but in the present moment right now its real to me.

Are you married with this level of a partner? Also have you been paying attention at all to current events? Birth rates are at an all time low. The divide between men and women post the invention of social media has pushed men and women apart. It is literally a global issue. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-korea-elderly-death/south-koreans-face-lonely-deaths-as-confucian-traditions-fade-idUSBRE90K05A20130121 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi#:~:text=Kodokushi (孤独死) or lonely,and Japan's increasingly elderly population. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/hong-kong-women-rather-die-094022451.html This divide is happening all over the world. The modernization of humanity has dynamically changed the way men and women interact in relationships substantially and as a result has made co-habitation and other factors an issue. So yeah its gotten worse not better. Birth rates are down, marriage rates are down, and a lot more lonely people lol.

Masculine and Feminine have extremes. When Masculininity is extreme it is violent, suppressive, controlling, territorial. Femininity when it is extreme it is chaotic, unorganized, random, etc. The issue a lot of men have is women try to deny this aspect. You love bringing up the extreme aspects of the masculine but avoid the extreme aspects of the feminine. Chaos is necessary for growth and improvement. In some interpretations chaos meant undefined, or potential. It is the impermanence principle. It is why women are more open-minded, are more expressive, and why spirituality is so closely linked to the feminine. The desire to expand is a feminine desire. Its the creative aspect, the desire to not be bounded by conformity. Taken to its extreme it is chaotic, and counterproductive. When balanced with the Masculine you have creation. Newness, ingenuity.

Disclaimer: Also don't take any of this the wrong way. I can tell that you are very intelligent. I'm merely trying to push you to use that intelligence to better communicate your point. I'm a debater and deconstructionist by nature. I can tear apart most arguments because I have an ability to see multiple perspectives in an argument. So think of this as me pushing you to do so as well. An appeal to authority? If you wrote a story and told me the theme of the story was blah blah blah. Then someone I had a discussion with disagreed with me that the theme of the story was blah blah.....it wouldn't just be an appeal to authority it would literally be what the story was built upon. Now unless the argument could be substantially made that the author of said story FAILED to sufficiently write a story that upheld that theme then it wouldn't even be an issue. Calling it an appeal to authority as if that is all there is, is a copout. Come up with an actual argument don't just use labeling tactics. Yes it is an appeal to an authority when you discuss the work someone made you will bring up their viewpoints considering its there work. Me quoting you in a response to reply to you IS AN APPEAL TO AUTHORITY. I must discuss YOU if I am going to have a discussion about something you have created. You are creating a viewpoint so I must appeal to what you have created to discuss it!! Seriously....what is going on here? Make a point, stop running in circles. Also don't take any of this the wrong way. I can tell that you are very intelligent. I'm merely trying to push you to use that intelligence to better communicate your point. I'm a debater and deconstructionist by nature. I can tear apart most arguments because I have an ability to see multiple perspectives in an argument. So think of this as me pushing you to do so as well.

And I'm pointing to you that you are engaging in delusion. If someone is chopping you up, you would drop all of that. I really am starting to wonder about you all on this forum. You would state all this nonsense and then when someone is chopping you up you drop it so dang fast. But I'll help you with a clue. Reality and Illusion are the same thing. If the illusion wasn't real then I would chop you up and you would feel nothing. You are in a dream, but the dream is very real. God creates reality through dreams. It is foolish to say its illusion unless you have reached a state in which the dream cannot influence or impact you. The whole point of calling it illusion is the pointer to help someone awaken. But that is all it is, a pointer. The dream is still very real in your direct experience. Only when you reach certain levels of consciousness can you transcend reality and see it for the illusion that it is. But unless you are in that state...that illusion will be very real for you.

Yeah synchronicities is just a form of intuition. For me it let me know that what was happening was supposed to happen. Recently a synchronicity helped me find a deal on a car. So ignore anybody that tells you otherwise it is divine communication from your higher self revealing something to you. Also it actually lead to events that caused my ego death. So there is that as well. And a kundalini awakening.

You are right, and you can believe that while someone chops off your arm. You are welcome to try that exercise.

This argument is akin to well I can liken how the body digests food to the circle of life. Yes you can make an analogy of anything but logic and analogies are graded on how well they fit. So let's grade your analogy. You said: "I would say that Stage Blue Christianity was a religion fit for the old age and death of mankind. Stage Orange materialism is equivalent to the hardening (vigor mortis, the “stiffness of death”) which sets in when the body dies" So here you are saying Blue which is about authority =death. Orange which is about materialism= Hardening of the body And Spiritualism= Leaving the body. Please explain how authority= death? Please explain how materialism= rigor mortis Please explain how spirituality = the spirit leaving the body.... not to even mention that you are not even in the body the body is actually in you...but I digress please explain all this. You see when you make a claim you have to actually explain it. You can't counter my analogy with a weaker analogy. Because I can VERY EASILY show how Spiral Dynamics mirrors individual human development. All of human history mirrors individual human development. But do you know how I can make that analogy? Because the people who created Spiral Dynamics have already done it on their website because they saw what I saw. Every psychologist worth their salt knows that human history is just a reflection of the individual human on a massive scale. If you are unaware of this you haven't studied it enough.

If you notice how Spiral Dynamics works, there is a stage, the next stage rejects the stage, then the third stage incorporates both and transcends them both, this keeps happening over and over. It makes sense when you think about it. By rejecting something you discover its weaknesses, but because it actually had merit....you discover the good parts it has. So then you construct something that takes the best of both worlds which makes you transcend them both. This is how we individually learn and collectively learn.

You do not realize that all of your posts cry out for control. At the end of the day, everybody is sovereign. Your desire for authority is because of your fear. You judge others as dangerous and that is why you want them to be controlled. The more authority you wield the less freedoms others have. And I cannot believe you had the audacity to talk about creativity in building structures. This lets me know you are not a student of history. All creativity gets stymied by authority. Do you even know how creativity works? Authority seeks to make massive conformity. It seeks to make things predictable. Why? Because it is easier to control. Creativity seeks to experiment and go outside the box. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history are persecuted because they think different than the masses. There are TOO MANY EXAMPLES throughout history of creativity being attempted to be stamped out. This happens in art, science, sports, etc. Whenever someone attempts to bring something new, they are immediately ridiculed and it becomes a controversy. All creativity that is created and brought forth happens IN SPITE of authority not because of it. Now I am not against authority as some order needs to be placed but every historian of human history knows that authority is linked to conservatism and if you are too conservative you DIE. Nations, empires, corporations, and all of life is under this rule. If you do not adapt you die. The irony is death is change itself. So you must die to continually live.

The only reason you say what you said is because you have a bias against Orange and Green and you don't get the point. If we kept blue, certain levels of discrimination stay in tact. Jim Crow is Blue. The Crime Bill of 90's is Blue. Affirmative Action is Blue as well. Orange and Green seek to be free of the authoritative role of government and seek more personal freedoms. Your vision is limited that is why you cannot see the progress in each step. If you think of Spiral Dynamics as the stages an individual goes throughout their life but magnified to the scale of a nation or the entire human race it makes sense. The stage of blue is just blindly listening to authority. If you stay in that stage you KILL CREATIVITY. Rebellion against authority, against customs and traditions, is what keeps the needle moving. Is this change chaotic? Yes and that is how change operates. Eventually the change gets out of control and it gets put back under some control. But the limits need to be tested first before it can become balanced. If you follow how Spiral Dynamics works you will understand that the same developmental stages they are going through we go through. Each of the stages must be gone through because each stage is NOT SUSTAINABLE LONG TERM. If you have looked at the global economic system we have today. There has been talk over the last 2 years of a Reset. Or Debt Jubilee because global debt has reached astronomical levels. It can never be repaid. Not to mention the global inequality in the distribution of resources due to exploitation of the powers that be. So all this chaos needs to be burned through before we can reach some semblance of security.