Consept

Exactly, this is the thing, up until now we've been taught that how you know something is by learning it and remembering it. This is how it works in the school system, you know that there were Vikings because we've been told that, but it's limited in that you don't know what it felt like to be a Viking or what there life was really like as you weren't conscious then or at least you don't know if you were. So this is the method that we learn anything, we say we know there was a big bang and that's how the earth started, we know we are human beings, but it's the same method. How you could attempt and possibly truly know something is experientially, in that I know what the colour red is because I experienced that (even that you could contemplate lol), I know I have a thought because I can feel it in my mind etc. It's not that it will give you concrete answers as you might believe you get in science but it will give you truth as much as it's possible for you to perceive it. But I think you're nearly there, you just have to let go of some of your dogmatic, it is that way because it is that way, beliefs. Also keep in mind that society has never stopped in terms of its world view, it's constantly changing, what keeps it in place is dogmatic beliefs. Consider Christianity, they would go to war and kill those with opposing beliefs, sometimes even their own citizen's, just because beliefs have evolved to science and materialism it doesn't mean that that's the end of the road and we've worked everything out, on the contrary we should see that a truly open mind is essential for our evolution as humans and not stick to things we know because we know them. Final point if you actually go in to science quite deeply, you'll see there are a lot of parellels with non dualism and spirituality. Anyway, hope this thread has sparked something in you and you continue to look deeper, enjoy the journey

So essentially this is an orange materialist debate against a community of say green and above non dualists. Here's the thing the non dualists have been through an orange stage, if you look at the nature of the debate @Violinpracticerdude is questioning things as he is not entirely satisfied with his current understanding, something rings true about non dual teaching, so he's trying to either strengthen his current understanding by defeating people on this forum in a debate or, the harder path completely overhaul his beliefs. Problem he can only understand what's being said through the perspective of materialism, which means that essentially he cant understand the non dualists point of view fully. If you notice the non dualists are not really trying to find information from him, as what he knows they already do. They seek maybe partly to reinforce they're beliefs but mainly they see someone who wants to know and is a little lost. Just thought I'd do an overview lol

You will notice ego, everyone has one. He's not enlightened, as he says himself, but he does provide a lot high quality information. If you want to use it, use it, if you dont, don't, it's not complicated. But obviously you wanted a reaction from people ??

Your experience is your experience, and everyone is on their own path, so I don't think it's crazy. But what I was getting at in my first post was if you were born in a different tradition or saved by a different tradition or born 3000 years ago say before christianity, and had a similar mystical experience, would you have the same imagery ie the Bible etc. If you think about it people were having mystical experiences before our current religions, Lao Tzu, Buddhism etc. So not to debate whether you had a mystical experience or not, I'm sure that you did, but really I guess I'm just questioning the particular imagery as I think if you have any imagery it can slow down your spiritual progress. But that's just my opinion

How did you form these beliefs if you don't mind me asking?

Just to say we know that the Bible was written 2000 years ago, or at least that's what is claimed, we also know that humans have been around for 75,000 years or so. In that time there have been various different religions and beliefs and there continue to be more. Consider if you were born 2000 years before the Bible was written, would you have any of these concerns, or would you have the concerns of the culture and religion you were born into? This is not to dismiss the Bible but what you do know is that whatever time you were born you could be silent with yourself and have the same or similar experience to someone else who was silent with themselves. So there's something in you that's constant and transcends all language and ideologies but connects you to everything. You feel strongly about religion but this has not been experinced within you, you have taken these beliefs from what others said or wrote, you would have to contemplate whether this is real truth within the context of everything

Hmm you'll have to talk to future Leo about that

Future Leo discusses how this happened

You missed an opportunity to call it The Eggsperiment

It's a decent channel imo. It may not be advanced, spiritually in the way others are but then not every channel needs to be. He breaks social interactions down in a good way and it kinda reminds me of 'how to win friends' in terms of its usefulness. Worth it on the outward social aspect if that's what you need advice. He also comes across as quite genuine and seems like he's trying to help people

Dont worry about it, i genuinely mean that

Are they really necessary? I'm looking to do some salvia, where I'm getting it from they recommend having a trip sitter but I dont know anyone who's into this type of thing therefore they wouldn't really understand. Also I think it would be a bit weird anyway just having someone there and it might be harder to let go. I have done mushrooms before, it was with other people but even if they weren't there I would've been alright

Yeah that's a bit much for me, would be interesting to hear about how it was for someone who tried it. I may look into 5 meo though, just need to find out where I can get my hands on some in the UK ?

@PsiloPutty @Leo Gura @John Iverson Thanks for the advice, after watching that video I don't think I'm gonna do it, not trying to jump out any windows, I'm on the ground floor but still looks crazy ?? It's funny I was in Amsterdam and I bought some salvia, low dose but still. I was gonna do it but I did weed brownies with a girl I'm seeing. They were strong cos the effects lasted hours, I was enjoying it but she started freaking out. But basically didn't have time to do it, now I'm kinda glad cos she prob would've called the police if I went that crazy. @Leo Gura do you have a trip sitter when you do 5 meo?

Heres the thing, to say 'actualized.org' is a scam by definition is just not true. I havent bought the life purpose course and i cant see myself doing it, even though im sure its great, but my point is ive watched lots of Leos vids and havent paid a penny for them. You could say i used my time on them but either way Leo isnt really gaining from me watching them. However I would say i have personally found a lot of value in his youtube videos. So if we say its not a scam for arguments sake, then you would say I just dont agree with him or i think hes talking rubbish or whatever and thats 100% cool but to take him down for that seems a bit much. Theres millions of youtubers or teachers that i dont listen to because they dont resonate with me for whatever reason but to actively take them down, whats the point of that? Its up to each of us to seek out knowledge in various forms, rather than rely on one teacher to hand feed us. If someones teachings are 'dangerous' then yeah they should be taken down but i just dont see it in Leo. I think the poster was maybe looking for a solution to his problems, and felt that Leo couldnt really help or whatever. A good point he did make though, is the enlightenment thing, i think that is a genuine problem of the forum, where enlightenment is seen as the answer to everything, it would almost be better to take the carrot of enlightenment off the table and just focus on being present and improving our consciousness

@emind Heres the problem with caring what other people think, it means youll be a slave to whatever the dominant mindset is in your society and this more than likely, will contradict what your true self wants. For example you might grow up in a society where meditation is seen as wrong or a waste of time, to the point where youre ridiculed if you do it. If you care about what people think youll miss out on something that can change your life for the better. It would also mean humans would stagnant as everyone would be afraid of pushing boundaries. So on a micro and macro level there has to be people not caring about what others think. In terms of how to do it, thats something you need to work out yourself. Is it a fear of being kicked out of the 'tribe' ? If thats the case like any fear you need to challenge that. But you cant just accept, 'oh im a people pleaser so thats how it is', Thats like someone afraid to drive saying 'oh im just not someone who drives', well obviously until you face that fear you wont be that person.

But there is your issue, how can you understand something logically that can not be understood using logic? What you're talking about has to be experienced and can only be seen on that level. Language by its nature is limiting, if I write a book about how an apple tastes and you haven't eaten an apple you will still not know after reading my book, you may think you know but you won't really. Without direct experience all of your ideas are ego made distortions

Get married or dont

If you have a logical view of enlightenment will that help you get enlightened?

I actually think its an ideal time to start, there are less distractions, you know yourself better than say a 20 year old, youve lived and know what life is about, youve seen the temporary nature of life, you didnt grow up in the very distracting social media age. So go for it Patty and good luck on your journey

The main point of mgtow should be that you you dont need to sacrifice who you are for a woman, what i mean by that is you should discover who you are and be defined by that, not by a relationship or sex or whatever. The problem men have is that we put women too high up on a pedestal which mostly they dont actually like and because of that it leads to rejection, disillusionment, resentment, hatred even. So this needs to be taught, the other problem is there is no where that this is taught in a healthy way, mgtow and manosphere guys are trying to share this information, the only problem is its a bit all over the place. It would be fine if there wasnt such resentment built into it, but in some cases there is. In general i think attaching yourself to a 'movement' just doesnt work, because what it means is after watching a few videos youve resonated with it and youve picked this side so it leads to you having bias and defending it without taking into account other perspectives. Take the info that makes sense but dont be tied to it

Prince EA is a difficult one to call for me, overall his message is positive and he seems quite well versed in non-duality and other spiritual topics. However the problem for me and why he never really resonated with me is the showmanship of him, this is not necessarily a bad thing, im guessing the audience hes gone for are not hardcore spiritual or self-actualising (no z in the uk) people, its mainly a mainstream audience that hes encouraging to think differently which is commendable and needed. But its just appears overly dramatic and emotional (sad music, passionate speeches etc) to me, so if youre used to say Tolle, Mooji, Sadhguru etc, EA really doesnt come across as authentic. I dont know if this is a ploy to get people emotionally invested, he could very well be enlightened himself or at least on the journey, which im sure he is. It would be nice for him to connect authentically but then again would he have got the same amount of eyeballs if he had. Prince EA could be seen as a stepping stone to get from mainstream thinking to a more spiritual way im thinking

Just do it, I have and it didn't ruin my reputation, I did have that feeling you're talking about but it's just ego trying to stop you and give you an excuse. Even if you do it and it's a waste of time it will move you another step forward so you can move toward what you really want to do, if it goes well could change your life and give value to others. "Just do it" - the wise Shia la beouf

?? Awakenwithjp is pretty funny, but no JP stands for Jordan Peterson, he's a Canadian psychologist/lecturer who has strong opinions on topics like this, a lot of mgtow, incels and other manosphere guys are into him. He's got pretty big all of a sudden in the last couple years

Also keep in mind there's very limited education for males when it comes to interacting with women, there's nothing really in the mainstream geared towards this. In fact it's seen as sleazy etc there's very few real male discussions where you hear real men's perspectives, whereas you get loads of honest female perspectives on TV (the view or loose women if you're in the UK). Not to sound all mgtow but there needs to be some kind of healthy male influencers that can give real knowledge, otherwise they can fall into these hate filled rabbit holes online