Jannes

I think we are on the same page pretty much. We agree that a vegan diet is in theory possible for most people if executed well and we have a slight disagreement in how difficult this diet would be for the average Joe to do right where I would say its a little more doable and you argue that the challenge is a little too much.

In my experience vegans are on average way more informed about diet then other people. But it might still not be enough. Although it becomes easier and easier. There are supplements where you can literally take two pills out of the same box a day which covers all your needs as a vegan on top of a well balanced vegan diet. (picture below) https://www.target.com/p/ritual-multivitamin-for-women-18-with-vegan-omega-3-dha-vitamin-d3-chelated-iron-and-methylated-folate-vegan-capsules-mint-essenced-60ct/-/A-87742293 But there is a wide variety of plant foods, so there are multiple ways to make a vegan diet work. You can search for lower fiber vegan diets, low carb vegan diets, vegan diets for building muscle, ... Of course there is less variation compared to an omnivore diet but for most needs a vegan diet has an answer. Well you would supplement those anyways. My point was moreso that in your o3 answer you said that there may be certain nutrients science hasnt discovered yet and which are vital for our health and which may only be in animal food. So my question would be, if one would supplement their diet with eggs which basically contain everything for life, wouldnt that likely cover most nutrients that havent yet been discovered?

@integral How much do you think would adding a small amount of biological eggs and maybe some milk, which both kind of contain the essence for growing life essentially increase the chance that they cover potentially not yet found nutrients by chance?

I want to understand your point so I reformulated it in my mind, correct me when I am wrong: "Almost everyone could thrive on a vegan diet if they did everything right, but practically you can expected that they wont do everything correct, and therefore that they will be unhealthy on a vegan diet. And if its not possible to educate these people about how they should pursue the vegan diet correctly it would be better to discorage them to follow this diet at all because they dont know what they are doing and would hurt themselves. An omnivore diet would be the safer pick as it increases that the person gets all the nutrients by chance. That would be a very reasonable point to make imo. However if you do that then you miss the opportunity to educate them instead. "Only AI can compete with AI" , so here we go -- lets go o3 critique the statement of the opposing o3: “Supplements = food long-term” • True that pills normalize lab values; uncertain whether they fully match whole-food effects over decades. • But we also lack 15-year randomized trials for omnivorous diets, so the evidentiary bar is being set unevenly. No long RCTs on pill B-12 + algal DHA • Correct: multidecade RCTs are almost nonexistent for any diet. • Shorter trials do show that algal DHA raises blood and cord levels and that supplemental B-12 reverses deficiency signs. Clinical end-points beyond biomarkers remain under-studied for all diets. “A pill fixes a marker, not the whole web” • Fair caution. • However, modern omnivore diets also depend on fortification (iodised salt, folic-acid flour, vitamin-D milk). If a supplement corrects downstream function, the burden of proof that hidden damage persists shifts to the critic. Unknown co-factors (taurine, carnosine, creatine, collagen, K2-MK-4) • Creatine, taurine, carnosine: low in vegans but easily supplemented; deficiency syndromes in adults are rare to nonexistent. • Collagen: body makes it from amino acids plus vitamin C; glycine and proline are abundant in legumes and seeds. • Vitamin K2: MK-4 is animal-derived, but MK-7 from natto or supplements converts partly to MK-4. Fracture risk in vegans rises mainly when calcium and protein are low, not because of mysterious factors. Genetic / microbiome non-converters • Real but uncommon. FADS1/2, FUT2, TCN2, MTHFR variants affect status in every diet; most issues are solved by targeted supplementation or diet tweaks. • IBS-type reactions to legumes are legitimate; work-arounds include soaking, pressure-cooking, enzyme pills, or using lower-FODMAP plant proteins. Life-stage edge cases • Pregnancy, infancy, adolescence, post-menopause, endurance sport: tighter safety margins. Dietetic organisations already state that vegan diets at these stages must be “well planned.” Adherence reality (84 % return rate) • High dropout reflects human behaviour, not inherent biological failure. Only about a third of ex-vegans cite health as the reason, and guidance plus supplements sharply reduce attrition. Digestive-tolerance bandwidth • High legumes and whole grains can trigger FODMAP/oxalate issues for a minority. Similar tolerance problems exist for dairy (lactose) or gluten in omnivores. Adaptation strategies usually resolve them. Practical supply chain • Access inequality affects all specialised eating patterns. • B-12 tablets and algal oil are shelf-stable, cheap, and ship more easily than fresh meat; fortified soy or oat drinks cover major gaps where supplements are scarce. Bottom line • Long-term hard-endpoint data are scarce for every diet, not just veganism. • Current evidence shows that vegan diets with B-12, DHA/EPA, calcium, iodine, and adequate protein perform as well as omnivorous diets on mortality and most health outcomes, while offering advantages for BMI, LDL, diabetes, and hypertension. • Genetic outliers, special life stages, and poor adherence can cause problems, but these are solvable with testing, targeted supplements, and practical cooking methods.

What are people missing that they cant get from a planned, monitored and supplemented vegan diet? I see people with certain health issues like Leo with his gut microbiome problem cant be vegan and there are likely some other health issues which make a vegan diet unhealthy so thats a few. And many people in the world dont have access to the whole spectrum of plant foods so there are limitations on those people as well. But what is your regular Joe who is lucky living in a first world country having access to a Walmarkt and Amazon missing?

For later:

Speaking of patterns, sometimes I stop myself from archieving something, especially if its about relationships. I remember when I was doing some kind meditative practice with other people and I had such a good vibe with a women there. It was all so perfect and yet for some reason I never came again. I was astonished myself, closely observing myself and being unable to figure out why exactly I act the way I acted. It can be a broth mixed with all kind of good reasons like not wanting to give to much personal space away to fast and so on and I act intuitively so I dont logically follow every action I do but sometimes it just doesnt make much sense. There seems to be a deeper pattern I am not fully conscious off. Maybe trauma related (feeling unlovable or something), sometimes it can also be spiritually related (wanting to stay in alignment to my pursuit), that I dont want to open to the social domain to much but its unlikely always the case.

What is so valueable about this journal is that I am more likely to find patterns and repititions because everything is inside the blog, its harder to conveniently forget.

This is a spiritual forum, maybe look at what you are actually doing. Are you conscious in your response?

I was vegan for 3 years, then switched to vegetarianism (milk and eggs) for about a year now for convenience and also fear I was missing something. When you hear that vegans are unhealthy from all sides and struggle with mental health problems (unprocessed trauma and very likely undiagnosed adhd) this really gets to you. Its quite something, you know the science, yet the primal fears are hammering on you. Its the rational part of the brain vs your primal instincts. Quite an insightful inner war for understanding much of politics. Anyway a part of me thought that I would get amazing health benefits from these foods but I didnt. I didnt crave eggs. I think eggs from chicken who are free (the very expensive ones) are ethically pretty okay, milk is shit though. The amount of convenience it gives me though is big, trying to keep the damage to a minimum as I have been switching parts to soy joghurt.

If humans were superior to animals inherently then it might still be pretty unethical to raise them in factory farms and then kill them. If humans were not superior to animals inherently then it would be incredibly unethical to raise them in factory farms and then kill them. You live life from the relative, not the absolute.

Would you be fine if certain humans were raised for meat consumption and killed at a young age for tender meat? And its not just the killing part, its about creating an environement full of suffering and myserie for these animals in factory farms and all the environement and life you destry to grow crops to feed these animals.

I just found a site where they apperently hire remote viewers. Many remote viewer work together on one project. I imagine in an combined effort they make probbalistically high statements. You are qualified if you get 75% of researches right. They pay good money for relatively very little work. Oh no, it says they work for the economy, making sports bets or predicting courses. All that does is transfer money to the rich. I hope there are more ethical applications as well. Damn when I did my first remote viewing experiment years back I actually got my test right, maybe I should try it again. I got like grey and ush and it was revealed that it was inside a volcano, cant remember most details.

How can one find out if they have remote viewing abilities, or other psychic abilites? - Try each one out or is there a better way to get a big picture? Discovering a lucrative psychic ability in me could save my ass from work.

In about a month I either get a renewed add diagnosis or not. If so I hopefully get access to specialized add theraphy which would give me a huge booster. If not I would be in even bigger need of psychotheraphy which I would try to get then.

Delaying problems leads to procrastination. For example because I delayed my social problems and confidence problems my time testing the waters in teaching were really bad. From that experience I cant tell if it was just a bad experience because of my problems or because because I actually dont like the job. The problem with being a teacher is that I dont really value teaching, especially math which would be my main subject. And I value things like self expression and authenticity which I have to repress to a certain extend to make it work although I have room to express it more then other things. My degree would be a good allrounder to find other jobs though and the studies itself are very doable. Philosophy is easy and somewhat fun, education is okay but not hard and math sucks but its doable and a great project with my dad. But the road isnt motivating...

My mind can jump very quickly from one point to another, sometimes with no obvious connection on the surface and I found a dash to be great to express that jump which my mind makes all the time. So its a big deal for me, likely not most other.

Chatgpt uses a lot of " - " to seperate thought sections. It makes reading it a lot more clear imo - so I started implementing it as well. You too?

If you dont value integrity, honesty and love polyamory cant work at all! It requires constant mature communication. I talk positively about it because I havent yet tried it really and would like to but there can be lots of problems: power imbalances, emotional dependency, conflict-avoidance... Bottom line, if you are mature everything can work, if you arent nothing will work. I think its a good parallel to Leos take that conservatism is the status quo because people are just too corrupt to make anything else work. Polyamory in this sense is more liberal and requires a lot more integrity to make it work. My libido isnt that high - thank god!

Most humans arent capable of unconditional love so there will be lots of jealousy in polyamorous relationships. However this can be talked about. If one partner has a romantic or sexual partner more then the other and that person becomes jealous because of it they can talk about it and arrange that this person also gets a partner more for example. Or it can be arranged that they have a period of closing the relationship for a while and so on. Basically its about full on accepting that you will become jealous and will experience all the nasty human sides and commiting to work through it with tons and tons of talk about how they feel otherwise it will break. And what I heard people get used to it. Its not like they arent jealous anymore but they accept the jealousy so much that it doenst bother them anymore. Like when you accept suffering it takes most of the suffering away. I was never in an open relationship but I helped an ex f+ work through emotions and fear after having a one night stand. It was so painful and so incredibly open, alive and loving at the same time. Honestly I havent reached the same level of happiness that I experienced that day for about a year now. I value honesty and authenticity deeply so that may play into it.

@koops Could you summarize the key points please?

Because I value healing and mediating - being incompetent in it is an especially big hit to my sense of self worth because my authentic self is partly a mediator.

This is really interesting to look back at. I intuitively knew, yet didnt completly trust, that something was missing. My emotions were to fucked up to look at. I am still very much in the process of healing, its getting better though. But its obvious why I couldnt become aware of those emotionally driven values of mine. I value healing and mediating and interestingly that can be put into the larger context of spirituality because this requires a lack of bias to do properly. Also mediating cant be done from every state, the individuals need to open up into the spiritual domain. I had a strong cognitive bias because I had emotional blockades. I actually do value things like empathy and healing more, even though critical thinking probably remains one of my top values.

Notes: 1) AD(H)D sympoms are very individual, depending on my type of AD(H)D different jobs might work differently for me. 2) It suggests that AD(H)D acts like amplifier. If you are uninterested and also have AD(H)D you are super uninterested, if you are interested and also have AD(H)D you might develop hyperfocus. So its important to nail what interests me, which is what all my previous work is about - so good for me. Problem being is that I am not that emotionally healthy - but finding my career would create mental health.

This is for tomorrow: