something_else

I think this is the most insightful post here. Ultimately it doesn't fucking matter as long as you're treating people with a decent amount of respect This is also a misunderstanding. In fact I see this as one of the most common arguments against 'pickup' and I agree with it. Using dumb and artificial techniques is a terrible idea and extremely inauthentic. But it isn't the kind of pickup that is taught here or most places for that matter. Very rarely are there any superficial techniques suggested, it's much more about learning how dating/socialisation works at its core How on earth do you plan on being authentically yourself in social situations that scare you if you've never been exposed to them, or you run away from them because they "aren't who you are"? I've spent half my life telling myself I "just wasn't a social person" and now that I've actually started being sociable I've realised that I was full of shit. Going to a club, bar, partying, sports classes etc. are all still quite terrifying but I almost always end up having a good time, for the first time ever I'm actually starting to feel like I can be slightly more genuine around others, especially girls, instead of scared. If that's not growth I don't know what is Me too. And for me that is social anxiety. And I don't plan on solving that from my couch. Tried that for 5 years because it felt the 'most natural' to me and it didn't do shit. Leaving my comfort zone was required to start solving the problem Yea, there's a whole lot of manipulation involved in survival, and ideally you should try to transcend it. But good luck doing that without mastering the basic elements of survival first I never said anything about macho and dominant. My point was simply that if you are not reasonably confident in social situations, it's hard to argue against trying to fix that because it creates many fundamental problems in your life and stops you from being authentic with others because you're shit scared of what they think of you all the time

Did I say clubbing was the only way to be social? Clubs are extremely effective for improving social skills though. I've had social anxiety since mid teens and going to clubs recently has been a huge step in dealing with that because they're pretty much the most intense social situation you can put yourself in I've also done a whole bunch of less intense social stuff like jiu jitsu classes, chess club, board game nights etc. and none of it has exposed me to as many new people in such a short space of time as going out partying Others may have a different path of course

Yea and plenty, if not most, who aren't naturally confident lmao That's who we're talking about here And working out isn't gonna solve anyone's lack of social confidence, male or female. It'll help but it's far from the only step You're not gonna develop social confidence without being social Good luck doing anything remotely creative as a dude if you don't feel your sexual needs have been met It takes place in these places because you develop social confidence by being social This "just be yourself" advice is ways really sketchy because there's no actual pragmatic way to "just be yourself", it requires a hell of a lot of work for many people and if you want to "just be yourself" in social situations then you need to expose yourself to them directly and frequently

Can't blame girls, I'd rather do that than sing a poem as well

@SQAAD If what you say is totally true what you're essentially saying is that incel-types should embrace their loneliness and lack of social skills, stay at home and just do whatever feels natural to their 'authentic self'. If your authentic self is sitting around at home wallowing in self-pity then guess they just gotta embrace that, right? The problem with the 'just be who you are' advice is that you might for some reason or another be terrible at expressing your authentic self, you might have some legitimately bad traits , or you might lack some important skills and fixing that all requires some action I'd agree framing it as pickup is a bit questionable, better to talk about learning to socialise, especially with girls, I think. That's the lens I view it through anyway It's very difficult to argue that confidence is not a trait everyone should try to develop If you lack confidence you literally cannot be authentic with others, it's impossible. And something like pickup/socialisation is designed to help you develop that confidence and ability to express yourself

Will they? Most of the guys who get into pickup can't attract one girl, let alone hundreds. Most guys that get into it are socially awkward or shy, they get into pickup so they can explore their sexuality with various different girls and eventually develop themselves enough to meet, attract and bond long-term with a girl they're also attracted to. That's the healthy mindset of pickup, it's more about learning to socialise and become a stronger man and a stronger human being Yea there are really really toxic parts of it but far less here than anywhere else I'd say, and the benefits of potentially stopping a few future incels are great, but the advice they need has to be relentlessly pragmatic But yea, when it comes to guys who don't prioritise sex here I've never seen anyone say they need to pursue it relentlessly anyway. It is common for guys who don't get as much sex as they want to pretend that they're 'above it' which I've seen people call out before, that's probably the closest thing to what you said that I've seen on here, but maybe I haven't read the threads you're thinking of

Check the individual votes rather than the overall score. You can get a 9/10 score where almost all the votes are 'Yes' instead of 'Very', as an example see below which resulted in an 8.9 score But almost all the votes are just 'Yes'. This isn't ideal since it basically means your photo doesn't elicit any emotional response, it's just 'good' You want your main pic to have lots of 'Very' votes. If you get primarily 'Yes' votes then those are def really good photos to keep in the profile though, just not as a main pic Weirdly, a pic I have that when tested got mostly 'Very' and 'Somewhat' votes (with much fewer 'Yes' votes) got me much better results on Tinder. It seems that polarising pics work quite well. It also seems that girls on Photofeeler have a slight bias towards 'nice-guy' type pics that actually don't work that well on Tinder too. No idea why this is The other thing photofeeler doesn't do well is account for the fact that you have multiple photos. You could have five pics rated 9+ but when you put them together collectively they don't work well at all because there is too much of something or not enough of something else in the overall profile Photofeeler in my opinion has two uses: Finding your main pic (one that you get the most 'Very' votes on after 30-50 votes) Sanity check for your other pics to make sure that you don't look like a creep in them, because we're all bad at judging our own pics. As long as you get an 8+ score for these then that's fine

Same for video games Not same for food though lmao, if I had any addiction it'd be food hahaha

Why in the fuck would he be a trump supporter lmao

What the fuck I've never taken a course worth that much but I can't even imagine how any course could be worth $5k Fuck, I hope you got some value from that

@Kay100 If you constantly feel the need to prove why you're better than others, the only reason for that is because you either want to convince others you're the best or you want to convince yourself. In either case, you don't truly believe you're the best If you actually believed you were the best in the world at a skill, you wouldn't feel the need to prove it constantly, however you also wouldn't be weak and overly humble, you would show everyone who's boss when the situation called for it. That's the sign of true mastery. It's a balancing act But you will get people who are extremely competent and also arrogant which is probably where this guy you're talking about falls. In real life you should avoid these people and focus on yourself. Because these people will only ever put you down as they have no interest in helping anyone reach the same level as them, they will instead try to ensure you stay below them to preserve their ego

Testing out all your pics on photofeeler.com is the first thing you should do. You can do it for free, but it'll take some time. Wait til you get at least 30 votes on each pic You can get profile feedback on r/tinder as well, they do weekly profile review threads. You'll usually only get one or two responses here which isn't a consensus but it can help. Subreddits for other online dating apps may also do this, idk Keep your bio short and witty. You're aiming for the "show don't tell" idea, don't say anything like "I am x" say something like "I have done y" where y implies that you have trait x. Or just put a funny one liner, try to be original or find something that you actually find funny and that isn't incredibly overused Photos are the most important part though, and you want as few photos as possible to convey your looks and lifestyle. First two photos should be showing your physical looks in the best light possible, you can use the timer feature on your phone to take a bunch of pics at home that show off your looks in the best possible way, then test each of these on photofeeler to find the best. The rest of the profile should be lifestyle pics. Looks and lifestyle are king when it comes to online dating And the mindset you should have with online dating is that it's something you have running in the background. Whenever you get a match, it should be a nice bonus. Don't ever rely on online dating as your sole source of meeting girls because that will make you incredibly needy and honestly miserable (spoken as someone who put far too much effort into online dating, if you can't tell)

It's a balance. If you have no sex, you'll crave sex for your entire life and feel like you've missed out by not having it. Transcending sex by having no sex is a terrible strategy You want to have enough exciting and polarising sex to satisfy your desire for sexual variety, as well as enough deep and intimate sex to satisfy your desire for connective sex. Without that, you can't really transcend because you'll always be wondering about what you missed out on Sex is different from drugs in that sex is essentially a base need of humanity, whereas drugs are not unless you get hooked

The distinction between arrogance and confidence is important. Arrogance usually arises when one is actually deep down insecure about the given field/area. Quiet confidence is the truest display of security in one's skill. You'll see many masters of whatever skill you want to look at typically display a quiet confidence and and acceptance that they don't know everything about the domain. There's always more to learn and the are humble about that fact Not to say there aren't also arrogant masters. But it's hard to master something when you think you already know everything about it

It's an unfortunate reality that there are way more men here than women. The advice is always gonna be tailored towards men no matter what. Finding a way to help men become stronger and better with women without being dehumanising towards women is a really difficult task, but it's extremely important advice given the percentage of incel-type men is skyrocketing. They can't even begin to think about deep and loving connection type advice that women find acceptable because they don't even have basic attraction or socialising down I've tried to avoid the pickup-type talk and stick to referring to it more as learning to socialise which I think is a better way to frame it that is less toxic Another point is that many women essentially dehumanise unattractive guys as well. Many are just trying to better themselves but you'll happily label them as creeps and weirdos for their efforts and not give it a 2nd thought. Which I think is actually totally fine. But it's just to point out that the dehumanisation goes both ways and almost every human being regardless of gender will do this to other human beings in some way

I'm trying to find a way to word this that doesn't make me sound like I'm denying your experience but I really would like examples of the dehumanisation. I don't pick up on it that often (besides in the super toxic incel posts), but I understand I'm totally not the target and so many things that are subtly cruel and dehumanising to you may pass over my head. What have you read on this subsection that's made you feel like total shit? Other than that, the only thing I have left to say is just that I got involved in this to make the point that taking a relaxed and casual approach to relationships is not worse than going actively in search of deep and intimate connection. Both are valid ways to approach relationships and both can be done healthily and unhealthily depending on context and situation. I don't think demonising either is correct, regardless of age. That's the only point I set out to make. I don't want to get dragged much further into a messy back and forth so I'll leave it at that. However I do actually agree with many of the points you made re-reading some of what you said again, but the nature of forum debates is that we both get angry and implicitly assume we disagree on everything which is not the case

There's a 42 year old chemical engineer dude who shows up at clubs near me and often ends up being the life and soul of the party Granted, most 42 year olds couldn't pull that off but different people are into different things and have different paths. Why be so judgemental? Again, different people have different paths. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to take a more casual approach towards relationships for your prime years until you find someone who really blows you away. Some people are really picky and won't find someone out of those 30 people who they feel they could settle down with, others will settle down with the first they meet and build a deep, loving and intimate connection that lasts the rest of their life. And some people are that middle aged dude dating 4 different college girls at one time and telling them all he really loves them. Yea, some people are just dicks That's not the same as taking a healthy but casual approach to relationships You are doing exactly this too, but flipped for your own perspective

It's a different perspective to your own which you quite clearly villainise Not everyone wants or needs 5-10+ year relationships and there's nothing inherently more mature about them other than some social conditioning Yes you will want to settle down with a committed partner in your later years. But better to experience all there is out there before you decide who you're gonna commit to for 20 years. Cos if you choose wrong dear god you're not getting that time back. Men especially enjoy freedom, especially in the prime of our lives, like 20-45 kinda age range. It's not immature, it's just a different way to approach life than your own

Ironically this is probably the most toxic post in the thread...

No, it's completely and utterly impossible

My opinion is that you should do whatever is quickest and smoothest when it's a small, cheap activity like coffee. You basically want as little thought as possible to go into it from both of you, it should be a non-issue. 'Say you'll pay then if she fights it let her pay' is my approach for cheap stuff because it's just smoother. If she takes issue at you wanting to her to pay for something cheap like a coffee then you probably don't want anything to do with her anyway

Brilliant

Well said. Men should embrace a lot of these feminine traits. Many men in the world express these negative masculine traits because of our fairly masculine-focused culture which accepts these negative traits far more than it should Though there are plenty of positive masculine traits as well. And plenty of negative feminine ones. It isn't so one sided

Baby I love you so much I need the government to force us to stay together forever <3

Sometimes groups of girls will heckle you on the street where I live if you stand out in some way or if you make strong eye contact and don't give off awful/scary/creepy vibes, especially on a night out when they're tipsy. But it's not a reliable way to meet women. And a girl on her own is probably never gonna do it