zazen

I got that lingo from this very forum where tongue in cheek things are called the devil all the time. The term ''Zen Devil'' also for example. It's not saying something is inherently evil but that we are all capable of the good the bad and the ugly - and calling that out for what it is. What the US and Israel are doing is ugly and devilish - and the US does bad things on mass scale whilst underwriting Israel doing more of the ugly things within their own proximity. Whats happening in China (ie Uighurs) is bad. Whats happening in Yemen and Sudan is ugly. There are degrees and scales to all this. Hitler and Stalin were Devils in chief then , today ISIS and Boko Haram take those mantles.

Let me introduce you to right wing populism that scapegoats other cultures being brought into the West via migration that are blamed for causing such decay lol. But the cleric thing definitely is a issue that needs to be watched out for I agree - it's just not the cause of the decay and neither is it representative of most Muslims - but marginalization and ghettoization can lead to radicalization which perverts the religion to more fundamentalist ends. Chat GPT comparing the Bible (Old and New) with the Quran: 1. War & Violence Bible (OT): Commands genocides (Amalekites, Canaanites, Midianites). Kill men, women, children, even infants and animals (1 Samuel 15:3). New Testament: Shifts war into apocalyptic vengeance — Christ returns “to judge and make war” (Revelation 19:11). Qur’an: Allows war in self-defense (2:190), forbids transgression, commands peace if enemy inclines to peace (8:61). 👉 Qur’an is more restrained. 📌 2. Women Bible (NT): Women must be silent in church (1 Cor 14:34), cannot teach men (1 Tim 2:12), must submit to husbands (Eph 5:22). Qur’an: Men have a degree of authority (4:34), but women inherit, own property, and divorce — radical rights for the 7th century. 👉 Both patriarchal, but Qur’an gave more rights in context. 📌 3. Punishments Bible (OT): Death by stoning for adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Lev 20:13), blasphemy (Lev 24:16), working on Sabbath (Exodus 31:15). NT: Focuses less on law, more on eternal damnation (“lake of fire” Rev 21:8). Qur’an: Corporal punishments exist (e.g. flogging for adultery, theft), but also calls for mercy, repentance, and feeding the poor as expiation. 👉 Harsh, but more options for mercy than OT law. 📌 4. Racism / Equality Bible: OT is tribal (“chosen people”); NT universalizes faith but still accepts slavery. Verses used for centuries to justify racism. Qur’an: 49:13: “No Arab over non-Arab, no white over black — only piety.” Last Sermon of the Prophet is explicitly anti-racist. 👉 Qur’an more egalitarian on race. 📌 5. Governance & Power Bible (NT): Romans 13:1–2 tells believers to obey all governing authorities — used to justify monarchy, slavery, colonialism. Qur’an: Emphasizes justice, consultation (shura, 42:38), and condemns tyranny. 👉 Qur’an more resistant to blind obedience. ✅ Overall Judgment Bible: Endorses slavery, genocide, patriarchal subjugation, and obedience to empire. Qur’an: Regulates harsh practices but consistently points toward justice, equality, and mercy, even if within a 7th-century framework. 👉 If you’re asking which text is more just, the Qur’an edges ahead in nearly every category except maybe gender (and even there, it granted women legal rights that the Bible didn’t).

From Chat GPT on the New Testament: Slavery Ephesians 6:5: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling.” 1 Peter 2:18: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters, not only to the good and gentle but also to the harsh.” War Revelation 19:11–16: Christ rides a white horse, “judges and makes war,” his robe dipped in blood, striking down nations with a sword from his mouth. Revelation 19:21: “The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse.” Matthew 10:34: “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Punishment 2 Thessalonians 1:8–9: Jesus will return “in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God… They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction.” Matthew 10:34: “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” John 15:6: “If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away like a branch and withers; the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.” Revelation 21:8: “The cowardly, the unbelieving… will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Authority and submission Romans 13:1–2: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” Ephesians 5:22–24: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord… as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” 1 Corinthians 14:34–35: “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission… for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” ____ The full quote of Jesus on the horse: ''Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.'' https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 19%3A11-16&version=NKJV GPT conclusion: The New Testament doesn’t command genocides like the Old Testament, but it spiritualizes war into eternal damnation for outsiders, calls Christ’s return a war on nations, and contains violent imagery that makes the Qur’an’s contextual battle verses look mild by comparison.'' _____ The point is this doesn't automatically make Christianity inherently evil because of such verses. Firstly there's a difference between descriptions (historical accounts) and prescriptions. For those times if certain norms existed them being spoken about doesn't mean being endorsed outright but regulated rather than not regulated with no rules around such norms (war, slavery etc). Secondly, you are either unaware of or leave out the fact of interpretation and jurisprudence which is a massive field on all religion. If Christians can reinterpret their “perfect scripture” to adapt to different times and contexts Muslims can too, and did. Saying Islam is frozen in time is just a stereotype of your bigoted worldview. The entire Islamic Golden Age - with its law schools, science, philosophy, and pluralism - was built on fiqh and reinterpretation. If Islam really froze in the 7th century that Golden Age wouldn’t exist. They applied jurisprudence, reasoning, and adaptation to new contexts and knowledge they got from the Greeks, Persians, and Indians - rather than simply living by a literal reading of the Quran. Literalism is the issue with fundamentalism and Islamists like ISIS for example - but that doens't represent majority of Muslims world wide.

Agreed. I’ve commented on it before: The issue with many people’s analysis is they give their side endless nuance but don’t extend that same nuance to the other side. I can understand the context in which Jews felt they needed to do what they did to obtain a state - without condoning their actions. Likewise we can understand the actions of extremist groups or of Hamas due to their context and conditions - also without condoning or justifying it. Material conditions can distort human nature and our moral compass to do disgusting things. Some belief systems can definitely interact in better or worse ways with those conditions too. But the primary driver is generally material reality rather than immaterial psychology and belief systems. If we swapped the material conditions of Europe for Africa and the Middle East - we’d see similar outcomes of violence and conflict regardless of religion or ethnicity.

@Breakingthewall Responded to you about the whataboutism before. Your collapsing different fights and wars around the world into the same bucket of Muslim Brotherhood and Jihadism to try paint Islam as the common denominator and thus as inherently evil. Religion is invoked or instrumentalized for political / tribal struggles and bloodshed but that doesn’t make the religion inherently evil. Christians once killed millions under the cross, but nobody says Christianity is inherently genocidal. Likewise what has Democratic United States done its entire existence around the globe - do we now conflate Democracy with evil?

Are any of those countries maintaining a global empire, running a worldwide network of military bases, invading countries on false pretenses every few years, sanctioning a third of the world's population, and backing an active ethnic cleansing / genocide or colonialism if that's what you want to call it? Scale and affect matters. The US isn't just another country on the list of human rights abusers - they're the primary country that maintains the global system in which those abuses flourish, including underwriting Israel and its abuses in its entirety. By your logic, we shouldn’t single out the Holocaust either because '‘humans aren’t saints.'’ We all know that’s ridiculous - some crimes are bigger, systemic and world shaping. We have zero to little influence over what the Iranian, Chinese or Saudi government does - but we possibly do over our own in the West where our taxes oil the gears of the empire. That means we have a different relationship to US and Israeli crimes than we do to anyone else's.

On Israeli deception: One thing that is disingenuous I think is this blame shifting on “da Jews” or Israelis for most of US foreign policy. I see Sachs, Mearsheimer, Tucker and the right wing simply omitting how the US itself benefits from control and forceful domination of the Middle Eastern region to maintain their petro dollar that underpins their entire empires hegemony. Classic scapegoating to make them look squeaky clean. See how they deceptively manage the narrative and flip on Israel rhetorically yet support it in action and materially to aid it in its massacring of Palestinians. Even now with the flotilla - naval ships escorted them towards Israel but not to the coast of Gaza - just wanna look like their doing something to release the pressure of domestic anger - which didn’t work as now protests are happening across Europe. Same thing with the recognition of Palestine. How about recognizing the double game being played and not being taken for a fool. We’re hip to the game now. US is big devil whilst Israel is lil devil. Open challenge to the forum to challenge me on what I say.

Your whole comparison ignores that Palestinians are not a secessionist minority within Israel - they’re native people being dispossessed, occupied, and blockaded. That’s not the same as Chechens in Russia or Uyghurs in China. To say “they’re lucky” they aren’t getting treated more brutally is grotesque after everything we’ve seen with our own eyes. I hope you’re getting your siestas in Spain properly so you can think clearer papi.

How about pretty much the whole world saying and voting in the same manner as seen in UN assembly votes? Are they under some Islamic voodoo spell - maybe Aladdin wished it from the genies lamp to hypnotize the world towards the Palestinian cause? Or perhaps your just a BJP Zio bootlicker waxing apologetics for colonialism, despite your own country of India (if your from there which I assume) being under the same boot of colonialism - ironically shameful of you to do so if that’s the case, but a shame regardless of whether anyone’s from a ex-colonised country or not to hold and justify the colonial perspective.

From the other thread which is more for news. Bro your logic is the same colonial thinking as you’ve outlined to Twentyfirst above. Firstly you have a caricature of Muslims in your head. There’s definitely development needed and some extremist elements that need to be resolved or remedies - but most Muslims renounce those elements. When countries are destabilised and war torn they’re ripe for extremes factions taking control - note your example of Iraq. Same thing with the slave trade now happening after Democracy was delivered to Libya. Hard times create conditions for hardliners to swoop in with their hardline stances. Much of the backwardness in practice is due to socio-economic conditions and extremist factions. Especially in more impoverished rural parts of those countries including India and Pakistan. Most marriages in the Muslim world aren’t forced - introductions happen via family and friends which is then considered “arranged” but all that was arranged was the initial meeting. It’s up to the couple to go forward with things or not. That’s how it is these days. The problem with your thinking is that you think moral imperfection or lower development in some aspects justifies being under the rule of another group more developed in those aspects. You also conflate a religion of over 2 billion people with evil whilst not acknowledging the nuances involved including in the application of that religion or in how people operate their day to day life. By your logic the Nordic’s should govern crazy ass Americans who shoot up schools all the time or Japanese should govern India to enforce proper hygiene standards. India has rampant rape, defecation, forced child marriage and a caste system where Dalits (200million people) are deemed untouchable. Does that justify being governed by a group more advanced in those specific aspects? Does that make Hinduism backwards and inherently evil? Guess India needs to be occupied by a superior people to rid them of these issues?

Guess what happened in 1948 that you omit so you can maintain your own skewed narrative - the Nakba that started this entire shit show. Israel’s entire project has always been about maintaining a Jewish majority state, which is why the Nakba happened in the first place. Zionist militias decided there were too many Arabs on the land they wanted for a Jewish state, and then violently expelled them to create an artificial demographic majority. That was the point then, and it’s the point now. You can't point at cosmetic co-existence of Palestinians within Israel while ignoring that the oppression isn’t primarily about Palestinian citizens inside Israel proper. It's about millions of Palestinians living under military occupation outside Israel proper in disputed territory (internationally recognized as Palestinians) in the West Bank and under siege in Gaza - people Israel don't want to absorb because doing so would undo the Jewish demographic majority they desire. Also - what does it tell you if Palestinians are able to ''co-exist with Jews'' inside Israel? I thought their backward violent and barbaric Muslims? Or are they not related somehow to the Palestinians just across the border from them? Are these the enlightened Palestinians who read eckhart tolle? Millions of Palestinians have been kept in limbo for decades because they won't be absorbed into a single state with equal rights, neither will they be allowed their own state to exist within outside of Israel and recognized by the international community as their inalienable right. You can't have it both ways - you can't deny people coming in to exist as equals in one state, then deny them their own state when they try to exist outside of it. I'm not saying Israel needs to be perfect - your the one pointing at Muslims at not being perfect and deserving less because of it. You afford other religions nuance but deny Islam and Muslims their own with your bigoted commented. Moral perfection isn't a requirement for political liberation that's already acknowledged by the world, but that is simultaneously denied by Western hegemony. You've acknowledged Christians have done plenty of bad - yet you don't conflate Christianity as evil. I've pointed out to you the caste system of India (linked and reinforced via Hinduism) in which a entire group of people are literally seen as untouchable (1 in 5 Indians are Dalits - 200 million approx) - do I then go and conflate Hindusism as evil? Obviously not because I'm not retarded. Child marriage is also pervasive in India - are you gonna now say that that's only because of the 200 million muslims doing it and the Hindus don't? You don't see me or anyone playing conflation Olympics to demean a entire religion do you. Up your nuance game before commenting.

🔥 🔥 Can’t have legalized drug use whilst glamorising it through media and music and now through biohacking spiritualists who want to expand their third eye and gain a edge over their competitors using nicotine lol The foundational premise is that for every increase in “freedom” their surely needs to be a commensurate increase in the maturity level of the culture those freedoms want to be exercised in. This applies also to “freedom of speech” and “freedom to bear arms” which cancel each other out when juvenile minds use their so called freedom to speak bigotry then end up getting shot by another citizen mis-using their freedom to bear arms.

@Breakingthewall When in your mind is a victim a victim? Being subjugated for 70 years and besieged for 20 means you aren’t victim to anything? If I’m pinning you down to the floor and you start screaming and trying to kick me off - you’re not a victim of anything and should sit there quietly? You’re not taking into account how material conditions warp peoples ideologies and beliefs. Your saying Islam is inherently violent - but it’s mainly violent because Muslims in conflict zones manifest religion militantly. Definetely it’s not a pacifist turn the other cheek type religion - but so did Christianity manifest in ugly ways despite such remarks by their lord and saviour Jesus Christ. If Hindus or Christians were put under the same conditions, they would likely do the same. If Dalits and Muslims actually occupied and structurally dominated Hindus in India (as Israel does to Palestinians) the response would likely be radicalization of Hinduism and an ugly manifestation of it in reaction to that material condition. That doesn’t mean Hinduism is inherently violent.

@Twentyfirst The issue is the naughty behaviour of the West don’t be gone for a bygone era of naughtiness. Man has gone from being man to being man, the same way the war on terror went from Taliban to Taliban after 20 years and trillions of dollars lol. Plato to NATO and Dun Kirk to Charlie Kirk - same shit different toilet. But in some ways the West has been distinct sure. They went from philosophy discussions in Plato’s cave to Chris Williamson’s podcast studio discussing whether man can be a woman and whether it’s cool to have a 1’000 body count a la Bonnie Blue. Meanwhile, Western hegemonic empire that started in genocide is ending in one too - quite the poetic evolution. You can see the thousand cock stare - or as they say, female empowerment: They assume that physical reality has no constraint on their psyche and souls - that because they are from one universal blob of oneness and conciousness they can manifest reality as they please and identity it as they wish. “I identify being a cumbucket as empowerment” or “I identify ethnic cleansing as transfer of peoples” or “I identify the rules for thee but not for me based order simply as the rules based order for all”. We went from having men in their 20’s taking on the responsibility of business and family to men in their 40’s living at moms house getting vasectomies, in a nightclub working up the courage to pick up college students and then go analyze every kino move on a forum later on, whilst using finance to pay for groceries. Obviously I’m making a caricature but we get the point - it’s kinda a sad reality that’s been made - a mockery of meaning and life. Owen Cook literally re-arranges his entire lifestyle around being awake at night to pimp - ruining his circadian rhythm and health as bad as a night shift worker - to indulge lust rather than discipline it. Western culture indulges instincts whilst the east disciplines it. The US has a high homicide rate and gun ownership rate - whilst much much poorer countries like Pakistan have a lower homicide rate despite having access to guns (though at a lower rate). We don’t see kid school shooters in Pakistan like we do in the US, nor do we hear about stabbings like we do from the UK. Theres some nexus of factors that are causing this sickness in the West - inequality, racial historic tensions, liberalist worldviews and false assumptions of reality, hyper individualist consumerist atomisation, lack of social cohesion and a transcendent narrative (God) etc Speaking of supremacy : The reason why people are still mad at the West is because substantively nothings changed, even this so called recognition of Palestine seems to be more of a pressure release valve for domestic anger: Let’s see what happens in the next two days with Israel’s encounter with the flotilla. Yanis above said if no country sends naval ships to help the flotilla then all this recognition talk is not backed with any teeth - Italy just turned their naval ships back as to not encounter “any diplomatic issue” (with Israel). Something seems to be afoot again - US assets such as air refueling tankers being mobilized to the Middle East, recent meeting of all the generals in the US, JCPOA formally approaching termination day on 18th October and snapback sanctions back on Iran, the current Gaza deal (ultimatum) which looks like it will fall through..a deal that involves Tony fucking Blair who’s funded and swayed by Larry Ellison who’s a close friend of Bibi and big supporter of the IDF and Israel in general. US/Israel rug pulled Iran during negotiations when Israel attacked Iran, then again in Doha - but they’re meant to trust them now? GTFO lol

Obviously not - but you’d love it to be as your on some crusade against “evil Islam”. How do you explain Muslims living relatively peacefully for many centuries with Jews before hand? Is Hindutva not an exclusionary ideology? The idea of Hindu Rashtra? What about the caste system where you have literal untouchables?

BJP Zio bot detected. The wrath of Kali with the barbaric head of Islam depicted in the profile picture most likely. So many bigoted false assumptions one can’t even be arsed to begin untangling them all. Even attempts at doing so have been responded to with zero critical thinking so no point lol

@Raze lol when someone thinks 2+2=5 I’m at the point of just agreeing these days. @Breakingthewall Do you only have this one dimensional view of Islam being bad or do you think theirs different ways in which it can manifest? The same way in which Christianity, Judaism / Zionism can have their own fundamentalist and distorted versions. Also - what’s your profile pic about, is that a Hindu god?

A good video in relation to this also (best listened to at 1.5x speed) From Plato to NATO and Dun Kirk to Charlie Kirk - that’s the arc of how civilization weaponizes its own ideals to corrupt itself. They’re framing this moment as if it’s a fight for Western civilization like those who fought in Dun Kirk. Martyrdom machine goes brrrr whilst money printer also goes brrrr whilst end stage capitalism and empire go brrrr bye bye

The obvious is that the conditions of occupation and being “under control” give rise to Hamas. Palestinian’s have a right to self determination that doesn’t depend on their “SpIraL DyNaMicS sTaGe”. Omg Afghanistan and Russia are so backwards in stage red / blue bro let’s go deliver them democracy whilst simultaneously denying them any sovereignty that’s foundational to democracy in the first place lol Israel already have self determination, but this right isn’t extended to the Palestinians - isn’t that the crux of the problem here.. Also, Hamas don’t pose a threat to Israel’s existence - a country with a small border to keep fortified along with their technological superiority and backing of a global superpower. You say that’s how it was before: a manageable oppression where Palestinians knew their place and suffered quietly while the world looked the other way. Only issue is the world is all eyes on Israel now, unlike anything before. I spy with my third eye ..

Blinken didn’t even blink lol

Epstein files Just some snippets

@Twentyfirst Charlie Kirk was speaking of the predatory monetary system ie extractive rentier economy led by financialization and their elites - on Turkey Carlson’s show. He could have been a future president with his following and young age meaning he had a long runway for politics. It could speculatively be a deep state job, along side a Zionist one. The two are intertwined. Any threat to either of those axis’s is a threat to the current power structure. Surface politics of socio-cultural issues (trans, abortion etc) is not a threat to the power structure the same way questioning the financial architecture or Zionism is - which is an outpost for US dominance. That outpost ensures (violently or by the mere threat of it) the petro dollars use that underpins that very financial system. Not sure if anyone’s been able to verify but what about that George Zinn guy in the crowd who was taken and released - apparently he was at other tragic events and in a 9/11 video. I can’t verify. But between that and the other guy who pulled out a decoy gun - it just seems this wasn’t a lone wolf job - even if a lone wolf was chosen for it as the patsy. No one’s conclusively saying it’s a conspiracy - but speculating it to be one is definetely not outside the realm of possibility considering the nature of the beast and what it’s historically done and continues to do right in front of our eyes. Foolish to just dismiss it. If there’s more to this then that’s also the very same reason why we won’t ever get to the bottom of it. That’s not gonna stop people from milking it for their own causes and narrative - just look how the following doesn’t come out and say who did it but sequences clips in such a way that suggests it: Candace is getting millions of views on her videos within days - pretty nuts.

Coincidentally news just in: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/9/17/saudi-arabia-signs-mutual-defence-pact-with-nuclear-armed-pakistan “The agreement states that any aggression against either country shall be considered an aggression against both” NATOesque vibes if more countries start joining this as Iv seen some comments suggest. People saying the idea was floated at the Doha summit in response to Israel’s attack - banding together of some sort of defence arrangement for the Middle Eastern countries. Don’t think it would happen - wouldn’t be a good idea imo. Anyone not in the circle immediately feels threatened for not being so. Creates bloc politics raising tensions and getting one country tangled up in any one other who’s security happens to get breached by a “outsider”.

I agree - no doubt Trump has been a bad influence. Maybe we’re circling on the same thing just splitting hairs. I think one distinction that seems subtle but is meaningful is separating what’s a cause vs catalyst. Like you highlight in the AI analysis - the crude discourse and behaviour accelerated. Trump caused / normalised the crudeness of politics - but didn’t cause populism itself, he only accelerated it by his rhetoric and behaviour. Trump, Farage etc have been catalysts tapping into grievances and distorting them - latent energy of discontent waiting to be exploited. They’re framing those grievances in a toxic way and then offering solutions that cause more problems than they solve. The cause though has been structural - economic struggles + cultural uprootedness. In simpler terms: bread and belonging. If we remove Trump, the structural trends causing masses of people to feel betrayed still remains - as shown in Europe via Brexit, La Pen etc before Trump came in. The tricky thing with populism is they take half truths then shit on a bunch of false truths in how they frame those “facts”. They say “facts over feelings” but are literally steering people to feel a certain way about certain facts. Also agree with your response on the previous page which was well put. I think regardless of which side is more evolved or less (or what we think of them) - both sides think the other need to evolve to their level - which seems to be causing the polarization and deadlock.