zazen

AI: “Zionism as a political movement started in the 1890s: • First Zionist Congress: 1897 (Basel, Switzerland) • Theodor Herzl published Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State): 1896 • Zionist settlement in Palestine (the Yishuv) began ramping up in the early 1900s By the 1920s, the Zionist project was well underway: • The Balfour Declaration: 1917 (Britain promising a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine) • Jewish immigration was increasing significantly • Land purchases were displacing Palestinian farmers • The explicit goal of creating a Jewish state was public and active So the 1920s violence happened AFTER Zionist settlement had begun, not before. The 1929 Hebron massacre, for example - horrific violence against Jewish civilians - happened in a context where: • Zionist immigration had been increasing for decades • Palestinian Arabs were seeing demographic change and land loss • The British Mandate was actively facilitating Jewish settlement • Palestinians correctly perceived this as a colonial project that would dispossess them This doesn’t justify killing civilians - ever. But it means the violence wasn’t emerging from “ancient hatred” or religious antagonism during centuries of coexistence. It was a response to an active settler-colonial project that was already displacing people. Compare the timeline: • Pre-1890s: Centuries of relative coexistence (not perfect, but no systematic violence comparable to what came later) • 1890s-1920s: Zionist settlement begins and accelerates • 1920s-1940s: Violence increases as Palestinians realize they’re being dispossessed • 1948: Nakba - 750,000 Palestinians expelled, Israel created • 1948-present: Ongoing conflict The violence tracks with the Zionist project, not with Jewish presence in the region. Jews lived in Palestine, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Yemen for centuries without provoking mass violence. What changed wasn’t “Jews living there” - it was “a European colonial movement arriving to create an ethnostate on land where people already lived.” So when people cite 1920s violence as proof of ancient hatred: They’re either ignorant of the timeline (Zionism was already active) or deliberately obscuring cause and effect. By the 1920s, Palestinians were already being displaced. The violence was a response to colonization, not unprovoked religious hatred. Does this justify attacking Jewish civilians? Absolutely not. But it explains the cause - and the cause wasn’t “Muslims hate Jews inherently.” It was “people resist being colonized.” The same way Algerians violently resisted French colonization, Indians resisted British colonization, Vietnamese resisted French and American intervention. That doesn’t mean the violence against civilians was justified - but it means the cause was political displacement, not inherent ethnic or religious hatred. So no - 1920s violence doesn’t undermine the coexistence argument. It actually proves it. For centuries, coexistence was possible. Violence erupted when a settler-colonial project began actively dispossessing one population to make room for another. That’s not “ancient hatred” - that’s predictable resistance to colonization. And frankly, if Zionism had never happened, there’s no reason to think Jewish communities in the Middle East couldn’t have continued existing as they had for centuries - as minorities within Muslim-majority societies, sometimes marginalized, sometimes thriving, but not facing systematic expulsion or extermination. The catastrophic violence came with the colonial project, not before it.“ But wasn’t this all done legally through land purchases? After 1917, the British Mandate actively facilitated Zionist settlement through: • The Balfour Declaration promising a Jewish homeland (without consulting Palestinians) • Immigration policies favoring Jewish settlers • Legal frameworks that made it easier for Zionist organizations to purchase land • Military protection for Jewish settlements So “legal” meant “legal under a colonial administration that Palestinians never consented to and that was explicitly working against their interests.” If someone colonizes your country, sets up a legal system, and then uses that system to dispossess you - is that legitimate? It’s “legal” within that imposed framework, but the framework itself was illegitimate. The demographic reality By 1947: • Jewish population had grown from ~6% (1918) to ~33% through immigration • Palestinians went from ~94% to ~67% • This wasn’t natural demographic change - it was planned settlement Palestinians saw this happening and correctly understood: “This project aims to make us a minority in our own land, then create a state we’ll have no say in.” That’s not paranoia - that was the explicit Zionist goal. Create facts on the ground through immigration and land purchase until a Jewish state becomes viable. So when violence erupted in the 1920s-1940s, it wasn’t because of “illegal” squatting necessarily - it was because Palestinians recognized the political project behind the “legal” purchases: • You’re not just buying some land • You’re systematically changing the demographics • You’re building the foundation for a state that will dispossess us • And you’re doing it with British colonial backing Compare to other colonial contexts: European settlers in Algeria, Kenya, South Africa also often made “legal” land purchases or received “legal” grants from colonial authorities. Does that make French Algeria, British Kenya, or Apartheid South Africa legitimate? The law itself was imposed by colonial power. Following that law doesn’t make the underlying project just.”

What do you think they should do? How should they start the path of coexistence and how does coexistence look to you - a one state solution with equal rights, a two state solution or an apartheid state? You said on the other thread that you think imperial Japan should have been nuked 3 times - so I’m curious to know your opinion? The international community has told the Palestinians they have a right to a state. That right is blocked. They fight those who block it. If you win the lottery to a million dollars it is your legitimate right to have that million dollars - you are entitled to it. If it is withheld from you and you start pursuing a legal fight for it - will people call you mad for doing so? And the Palestinian case is something far more serious. Winning a million dollars and being denied it is a financial theft. Being promised a homeland and being denied it is an existential theft of dignity, freedom, and nationhood. You may say they need to prove they’re worthy of that right but that’s not how inalienable rights work. Perhaps you should prove yourself sane enough to vote in democracy with some of the views you have.

Damn my grammar sucks there. I corrected it '' Israel's defensiveness meanwhile is theater and cover for domination of the land they want to settle in.'' Your not understanding the root cause of the issue. People don't just get a fetish for matrydom from no where and become that radical - which I agree is an issue - we just disagree how it needs to be tackled. If Palestinians ever reach a statehood that would bring them dignity, security, economic prosperity and rights - their logic to go to war would drop faster than a old mans balls. Statehood creates stakeholderhip because they now have something to lose in a war of annihilation - which is a independent state they've struggled for decades for. Right now they have nothing to lose. Radical conditions radicalizes them - so reduce the radical conditions to de-radicalise them. Extremism thrives in humiliation, hopelessness, and blockade. Its not because of China and Russia though. It's because of structural changes of the world order and the Wests position in it + our own system's internal contradictions reaching crisis point. Its a response to a changing order from a uni-polar one where the West reigns supreme to a multi-polar one they no longer do. Those internal contradictions coming to a head are: decades of neoliberalism hollowing out the middle class, financialization concentrating wealth upward, de-industrialization destroying the working class, surveillance capitalism eroding privacy, corporate capture of democratic institutions, rising inequality, immigration and cultural change + economic anxiety = reactionary politics. China, Russia or Iran didn't do any of that to us - our own elites and special interest class did - who sold their actions as being for the national interest when it was anything but. China and Russia opportunistically exploit those vulnerabilities but didn't create them. Multi-polarity isn't emerging because the West chose it but because they couldn't prevent it. So the order is changing and the Wests privileged position in it is ending - the economic pie is shrinking including our ability to capture new pies being grown elsewhere (China+developing world). Western societies are responding in various ways to compensate for that loss - right wing nationalism and authoritarian leaning is one of them. Whats BRICS are doing is reshuffling their positions in that order by challenging it or building alternatives as a hedge to gain leverage. Just see how they talk defiantly at the UN compared to 20 years ago. They reveal that Western primacy isn't natural or inevitable but that it was structural and temporary. Because you like to think Europe as a innocent bystander in this system rather than a preferential partner that disproportionately benefits from it - I'll bring up a clear example to the contrary using Chat GPT: ''France has maintained a direct neocolonial system in Francophone Africa for decades through: The CFA Franc system: -14 African countries forced to deposit 50% (formerly 65%) of their foreign reserves in the French Treasury -France controls their monetary policy -France profits from interest on those reserves -African countries need French approval to access their own money above certain thresholds This system extracts wealth from some of the poorest countries on Earth directly into French coffers.This isn't ancient history. This is current European imperial extraction. And now? These countries are kicking France out: Mali expelled French forces (2022) Burkina Faso expelled French forces (2023) Niger expelled French forces (2023). Multiple countries demanding a end to CFA Franc.'' You don't need to be the main boss (US) in the system, you can be on the inside circle that benefits from it more than others within that same system who get exploited. This status quo was simply assumed to exist indefinitely - until now. France maintained its own mini-empire within that broader Western built order. Britain did the same through Commonwealth structures. Westerners have enjoyed privilege within the structure, that privilege is now being challenged. And that's called a threat to survival when its a threat to dominance. These survival pressures which aren't existential but are pressures against an assumed dominance which the loss of is now distorting our politics. I'd say the best way to be left alone is leave others alone - but the hard truths is it that Europe can't afford to isolate itself due to the lack of resources on its own continent. It actually needs to interact with other but on a more equitable basis. This is a large reason for it needing to colonially expand in the past into regions which actually had resources it could bolster its empire from. China is also vulnerable in the same way but even worse - not only does it lack cheap energy but food security - but they plugged those vulnerabilities by building win-win partnerships and trade with countries to supply what it needed. You have called that imperialism in the past. Palestinians weren't there either - they were instead born into stateless occupation. Neither current Israelis or Palestinians chose their birth conditions. But Israelis have state power and agency to change the situation that Palestinians don't. That asymmetry means the responsibility for breaking the cycle falls more heavily on those with power. The "threats" Israel faces are largely produced by the ongoing occupation. Ending occupation would do more for Israeli security than any military operation - but that would require giving up territorial control and settlement expansion. Palestinians face actual erasure as a people in their homeland - through gradual displacement, settlement expansion, denial of statehood, no path to sovereignty. If we're talking about "survival" - Palestinian national survival is far more threatened than Israeli state survival. Russia was never truly brought in as a friend - only a tolerated supplier. So Russia hasn't really created any new enemies, only revealed those who always viewed it as a civilizational ''other'' to be contained despite benefiting from its resources. Most of the world is still trading with Russia and not toeing the line of isolating them. Israel however has created new enemies. Not among the states that neighbor it, but in global consensus and sentiment - including the shift in opinion of citizens in its very own allied nations. Despite Israels behaviour - state level threats are gone and still haven't emerged from its ''hostile neighbourhood''. This proves my point that they don't have a state level threat that is existential. It's Middle Eastern neighbors worked hard at diplomacy and de-escalation instead of waging war on Israel for its crimes. Israels continued actions only radicalized non-state actors who don't have the means to inflict existential level threats to it's existence. As far as Iran is concerned the Ayatollah here clarifies their rhetoric. It's not about random hatred towards Westerners per se but their governments foreign policy and actions. This clip is 6 years old yet how relevant when he says not to trust the West in negotiation - remember when just this year in negotiation with the US/Israel they got attacked. https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-an-israeli-american-deception-campaign-lulled-iran-into-a-false-sense-of-security/ ''Israel clearly hoped the Iranians would believe there was no way it would attack before the Sunday talks. On all fronts, Israel sought to put forth an air of business as usual. Trump contributed to the effort. “He played the game together with Israel,” said the Israeli official. “It was a whole coordination.” And again with ''negotiation'' talks in Qatar where the negotiators got struck. How can you negotiate a peace if you kill the negotiators?

Your links not false but also not relevant to what I said - I said Muslims and Jews have lived quite peacefully (relatively) for centuries and that Hamas is a blip and aberration in that relationship - not that Israel is a blip. Who knows - perhaps Jews wouldn't even be in Jerusalem today had Saladin not recaptured it from the Crusaders who barred Jews from there. Saladin invited Jewish families from across the region to settle there again. Identity based hostility and violence to the degree we're seeing today can be traced mainly to Zionism in modern history. He forbade looting and revenge against Christians when they retook the holy land - ransomed rather than slaughtered captives, personally paid for the freedom of the poor and protected Christian holy sites unlike the adversary. Richard the Lionheart admired him to the extent they exchanged gifts and Richard even sent his physician to treat him when he fell ill. Just goes to show that though there are cycles and principles of power that are timeless - not all power is exercised the same way. Ignore the 9/11 conspiratorial take in the following: EUROPE Doesn't suit your framing, does it? That's why you always dismiss it or say oh its not important but at the same time we'll villify the people there. Like Israel. They are not the good guys to you. Your side. Apparently, because we don't have a military and are not shooting at everyone to you Zazen we don't count. You argue against your own points. So we get a military, we start throwing our weight around, do we get to be left alone then? No, we'll be the bad guys again, not on your side Zazen. Because, unless you are allied with BRICS or just taking whatever is being thrown at us, we're the bad guy. Israel fights back, and what it does it get, vilified as being the bad guys. Utterly gaslit from start to finish by both of you and half the people here. I make an obvious post designed to get twenty-four into: You can see this in the US but not in Russia, Iran, China and BRICS, and you walk hook line and sinker into it. This boggled my mind with the number of debates we've had about America being as bad as everyone else. Self reflect that America is not infact Europe, for just a few minutes. Then the rest of it. You just like to couch it in some fight for liberation. I swear I might as well be listening to an American 30 years ago. That's why I said America AND the Western led order. They are distinct from the US which is the clear unipolar hegemon but they exist as preferential partners and allies within that order - that are also taken advantage of when it suits the hegemon, as we are seeing today. If they truly want to be left out of great power competition then they need to build their own defense capabilities to gain strategic autonomy and sovereignty - and act accordingly. Wanting to be left alone also requires actually leaving others alone. Israel uses the US to dominate the region through. Europe outsourced its security to the US who does more of the dirty work of upholding the current order they benefit from. You can't be part of an expansionist military alliance, participate in its structure and antics (NATO-Libya, Afghanistan Yugoslavia and other covert ops), benefit from it's global dominance and financial supremacy through dollar liquidity, swap lines and tagging along in sanction programmes to naughty countries - then claim victim hood when targets of that system resist that very order containing it - a order in which you are a junior partner to the final boss (US) in that system. The security, prosperity (social welfare) and diplomatic power both Europe and Israel have enjoyed have heavily depended on being central players in that order. Also - they very much do everything they can to not have daddy US leave them - que the picture of them sitting around Trump like school kids not wanting to be left alone. They begrudgingly want the superpower capabilities of the US on their side to continue to benefit from that arrangement even if it cuts into their sovereignty some what. It’s like living in the empires mansion that imperialism built but distancing yourself as a morally clean bystander because you don’t hold the whip. That’s why the order is referred to as Western despite being US led - because it is and it’s institutions were built by the West post WW2. That order is now breaking down, along with Euro leaders breaking down in tears for losing their benefits and place in it. They got comfortable and indulged progressive fantasies of green energy and mass migration assimilation because someone else lifted the hard weight of survival. Europe’s moralism is a luxury afforded by American militarism. Their only soft and grandstand about their “values”because they outsourced the need to be hard and survive just like anyone else. If you acknowledge that order - then it logically follows that the actors we are talking about are acting within that current order - and where they are within that order and how they are treated within that order (contained vs pampered) will determine how they act or react. I did also say that states can act independent of that order and not everything can be blamed on it. Not every protest is going to be a regime change operation despite the clear track record and evidence of the US perfecting that art (US-UK couping Iran in 1953 for example). Or maybe because we are being bombed and European or Israeli civilians deliberately targeted while you whitewash over it all on your own moral highground, and the authoritarian powers just remove countries and cultures they don't like, all in the name of liberation, I did say Western violence gets framed as policy, everyone else's as pathology - acknowledging that others can be or are violent. I'm not denying others aggression or threats of it - I'm saying there's asymmetry in how that aggression is talked about or understood based on who does it and why. And the causal chain gets erased to frame the latest act of aggression as if it comes out of a vacuum - that the one doing it is simply aggressive by nature, culture, psychology - to the point of not wanting to live on the same planet as them lol. Speaking of that causal chain - that is where things get messy because as we said - you can frame something differently depending on where you decide the starting point is. That's probably the most important point which I'll cover below along with the other parts that are related ie historic rhetoric, proper survival assessment, systemic analysis vs psychoanalysis. Because it suits your framing the best. Despite the fact China keeps quoting things from thousands of years ago, and Russia from the previous millennium. And this particular war does exactly the same. People just pick a point in time and say ah.... we'll go with that. You are again arguing against your own chain points. Get out of linear thinking for a heartbeat and move into a global recognised consciousness that this is human behavior, and until you can universally and without bias can see that everyone is engaging in it, because they are the world, then you'll always be cherry-picking which parts you like or dislike through a narrow lens. FINALLY. YES. Why did I moralise. Look at the original post I responded to. It was a morality argument. I can go up spiral dynamics, down or stay with morality. Survival is as base at it comes (which wasn't morality by the way, that is the point) Most of your post is moralizing if you hadn't realised on the re-read. With a few linear systemic points made. Yes western society is at stake. Its shifting authoritarian due to Chinese and Russian meddling. Which will cause nationalism and further war. Moreover Russia is threatening to kill us all and waging wars of terror. But again the whole point of this was Europe and Israel. Sadly you are unable to assign the agency necessary to discuss the countries in question, or in this case an entire continent. Which again boggles my mind but hey ho, we are where we are Ancient claims and assessing threats Israel also makes ancient claims. States invoke older history for legitimacy - it's not about whether ancient claims are allowed rhetorically but about whether they justify current actions. Israel makes ancient claims within and protected by Western hegemony to dispossess people right now. That's materially different from China or Russia invoking history while challenging that same hegemony and responding defensively to threats from that hegemon. Russia also uses historical claims (Ukraine isn't real, historical Russian lands) to justify what is also a response to strategic encirclement. The historical rhetoric obscures the defensive logic, but the defensive logic still exists within which to understand its actions. If we strip away Putin's speeches about Ukrainian history and look at the strategic picture - Russia is reacting to an alliance expanding toward its borders to a country that is being used as a launchpad through which to weaken it on its flank. This has been laid out in think tank papers only a arrogant hegemon would have the audacity to make public. Russia's defensiveness is real due to a accurate assessment of the threat - even if their response and rhetoric are wrong to the point they blur the lines of their defensive logic and make us question their motives (imperial vs defensive). Israel's defensiveness meanwhile is theater and cover for domination of the land they want to settle in. Israel claims existential threat - but from who? Egypt, Jordan, UAE are normalized. Syria is destroyed. Iran is far away and only retaliated after Israel directly struck it. Their threat is exhaustion from proxies (that Iran backs yes) and non-state actors who emerge because of the unresolved Palestinian issue. That's not an existential threat to the state - that's blowback from perpetual occupation which is the root cause of the issue. The "sea of hatred" narrative is increasingly detached from a actual state level threat. On time frame and systemic analysis I said everyone's actions have deeper roots to the point we get into the chicken or the egg argument - ultimately blaming God who started it all. So then what time do we pick to analyse events? if we go too far back it becomes too detached from the current reality to be pragmatic in understanding and resolving it, if we just go with the latest actions our analysis is surface level and symptoms based rather than root based. That's why we look at things systemically - and therefore look at the current system within which events take place. Every major actor is responding to the rules, pressures, and limitations within that system and order. The structure of that system defines where actors sit in the hierarchy of that ''rules based order'' and that positioning shapes their psychology, strategy and actions. A country not deemed a threat or that is allied with the hegemon in that system will behave and be responded to differently to a country deemed as a threat and challenge. This doesn't erase agency of countries but it explains how their agency is being exercised. I'm not denying the psychology, human nature or agency of those actors but grounding it in a structure they exist in and respond to. You say everyone engages in human behaviour, implying that humans behave as they always do ''because they are the world''. Your correct in that there are constants of human nature, and observable patterns and cycles of power - we're in one right now (thucydides trap). You’re describing continuity of nature and instinct but there is also a evolution of context within which that nature exists and manifests - in this case the system in which that nature exists. Human nature existing in the world of digital and junk food abundance we have today will manifest differently to cave man times of scarcity. A lion in a savannah acts differently than one in a cage. Same animal, different environment - and the behavior we observe is shaped just as much by the cage, not just the claws. The rules of power in the 1800s when Russia fought for land and resources aren't the same as in the 21st century where we have nuclear deterrence, economic interdependence, and a digital globalised world world with technology. That’s why 1945 and 1991 are the practical cutoff points - not to cherry pick, but because those were the moments when the entire global structure was redefined to create the current order - from which we can make sense of geopolitics today. Structures change, and when they do - the logic of behavior changes with them. We’re now witnessing the breakdown of the unipolar order that’s defined global behavior since 1991, and the emergence of a multipolar one - if we survive the transition. Once that shift completes, a new set of rules, norms, and incentives will shape how nations act - and any future analysts will have to take into account that new order in which to make sense of the geopolitics of that time. The Thucydides trap exists because we’re still stuck between these two orders that are now in a tug of war. On moralizing My critique can be moral but not moralistic - I said in my full comment that ''Israeli's aren't the problem, the way they are acting upon their survival is''. I don't view them as inherently less than or as a caricature of evil - I can understand yet not condone the actions they felt they needed to take due to survival pressures after the Holocaust. But seeing their actions against Hamas isn't defense and I do morally stand against that. No one says they don't have a right to self defense, its that they can't use that as a excuse to dominate and collectively punish Palestinians at large. If you get robbed or beat up at home or place of work - defense means securing your home or place of work with security, cameras, and some muscle and skill to handle any future nonsense coming to your door again. Sure, it's just to also pursue those criminals out in town. But you don't burn or demolish the town in the process. Israel has periodically or totally cut food, aid, water and electricity before. They've destroyed something like 70% of the buildings and displaced 90% of the people which have no where left to go and winter fast approaching. They even block any aid coming from sea via flotillas. This is not defense and has little to no defensive logic to it. My analysis is mostly structural and systemic. That structure isn't neutral. Some actors built it, maintain it, and benefit from it more than others. Actors are reacting to survival pressures they have within that structure - that you acknowledge come primarily before morality. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy within that structure by the ones who lead it claiming their own survival needs are primary whilst others are secondary or non-existent. Security architectures are supposed to address multiple actors survival needs, but non-Western aligned nations survival needs take a back seat in the current system. As just one example - India scolded to stop buying cheap Russian oil that is helping 100s of millions claw their way out from poverty that is no easy task.

The election wasn’t accepted - neither was the acknowledgment of 1967 borders which is and has been the baseline for any credible peace plan. That’s simply the bare minimum that the international community has consensus on. So start from that basis and hammer in all the finer details after that. One of those detail is that the West Bank is a tricky concern for Israeli security because of its vantage point over looking Tel Aviv - so some arrangement probably would have to be made for it. No side wants the other to be militarized there - so probably some sort of third party peace keeping forces to maintain the peace.

Brother, I prompted Chat GPT to give me the objective sequence of events causing the first rocket to be launched and why: - 2005 – Israel’s “Disengagement” Israel withdraws settlers and troops from Gaza unilaterally (not as part of any peace process). It keeps full control of Gaza’s borders, coastline, and airspace — meaning it can decide what and who goes in or out. Gaza’s airport remains closed; its economy, already weak, becomes almost entirely dependent on Israeli crossings. - January 2006 – Hamas Wins Democratic Elections The elections were monitored by international observers and deemed free and fair. Hamas wins a majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council, defeating Fatah — largely due to Fatah’s corruption and the public’s frustration with the failed Oslo process. - February–March 2006 – International Boycott The U.S., EU, and Israel refuse to recognize the new Hamas-led government unless it renounces violence, recognizes Israel, and accepts previous peace accords. When Hamas doesn’t comply (arguing that recognition must be mutual and tied to 1967 borders), Israel and the West cut off all aid and withhold tax revenues owed to the Palestinian Authority. This plunges Gaza and the West Bank into financial crisis. - Spring–Summer 2006 – Escalation and Blockade Israel begins targeted assassinations of Hamas officials and conducts military incursions into Gaza. On June 9, 2006, Israeli shelling kills an entire Palestinian family (the Ghalia family) on a Gaza beach — a turning point that enrages Palestinians. On June 25, 2006, Hamas militants capture Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in response to ongoing Israeli raids. Israel responds with “Operation Summer Rains,” invading Gaza, bombing power plants, bridges, and civilian infrastructure. The blockade formally begins — crossings closed, movement frozen, goods restricted. Late 2006 – Early 2007 – The First Major Rocket Waves After months of siege and airstrikes, Hamas and other factions begin launching Qassam rockets into southern Israel. These were primitive, largely symbolic weapons — militarily ineffective but politically expressive: “You can bomb us from the air, but we’re not entirely powerless.” - 2007 – U.S.-Backed Coup Attempt and Hamas Takeover The U.S. (via the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority) attempts to oust Hamas with arms and funding. Fighting breaks out between Hamas and Fatah; Hamas defeats Fatah in Gaza. Israel and Egypt then impose a total blockade of Gaza, sealing it off entirely — and that’s when the current era of isolation begins. Summary Hamas did not start firing rockets the moment it came to power. First came the boycott and sanctions. Then Israeli incursions and assassinations. Then the Ghalia beach massacre and Operation Summer Rains. Then came the first sustained rocket response. So the sequence wasn’t “Hamas elected → Hamas attacks → Israel blockades.” It was: Hamas elected → Israel blockades → Israel attacks → Hamas retaliates. End Quote ——- Not sure how accurate that is but open more info.

@Inliytened1 Did you love it when Hamas played the survival game? Or did you hate it…it’s just a game no? Israel withdrew from Gaza but didn’t withdraw control over Gaza. I take your house, leave it “withdraw” - then lock up the doors, block the chimney, control your wifi and water - of course your gonna try slingshot me from the window and shout for help. I’m supposed to be surprised why? If I’m Muslim but not native to Saudi Arabia do I get to claim it as my home due to religious affiliation? I would like some of that Oil Sheikh money so I can retire haha. That’s what a New Yorker Jew from Brooklyn looks like when he comes to “settle”. @Lyubov 💯spit your shit bro. You giving me this guys energy - I feel the energy coming through yo chakras

Zionists philosophy at the time of the founding of their nation wasn’t coexistence but instead resulted in the nakba - are you saying they should have been locked up then? Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same. Their philosophy and worldview distorts to such extremes because of dispossession and being locked up - you got the cause and affect ass backwards. Perhaps you didn’t have a good siesta today because your still thick as a taco.

1st vid. Of course terrible for kids to be taught such things. Why do you think whoever’s teaching them have got such distorted views as to teach kids in that way? 2nd vid. Notice he says Israelis goal is to live in their country and chill..then he says we don’t have a problem with the Palestinian in Gaza. The problem is Palestinians also want their own country to live in that they have a UN resolution for. Notice he says Palestinians in Gaza - what is Gaza? Why is it called that and not Palestine? Because it’s not a state..so what is it? Imagine I locked you in your house and lived nicely on your front yard while not letting you out - then you get mad at me and I reply “Jesus why so mad? I just want to live peaceful here and chill”. Do you not see the issue?’ If you were the Palestinians in Gaza what would you do. Sit and read Eckhart Tolle? Those old men you say have kid intellects when responding to that question were the previous head of Shin bet and previous Israeli Prime Minister Ehud who both say they’d take up arms to fight.

Your using Hiroshima as a hallmark of brutality that the Palestinians should be grateful for not having happen to them by a more generous culture - but Hiroshima was a product of Western culture itself! What morality? We just acknowledged who dropped two nukes on a already defeated nation in civilian packed towns. The only country to ever use its nukes not once but twice has come from ''Western civilization''. Don't talk to me about morality or I'll embarrass you with endless examples to the contrary. Zionists have perfected the art of political victimhood by thinking ''we can't be oppressors because we were historically oppressed''. You flip and project everything. Your definition of oppression is only the worst kind - ''if people aren't being holocausted then they are't oppressed''. The West have subjugated and dominated the entire region - what do you mean they gave Muslims everything? Much of the world fought against the West for taking from them in colonial times, and still fight them today to balance the the world order in which the West dominate. That dominance is falling under the systems own contradictions as Western elites hollow out the imperial core for special interests over national interests. That doesn't mean the West didn't give anything at all, but they didn't give everything. There's also a manner in which to give someone something - you don't share your gifts of knowledge, technology and trade through domination and conditioned on them being subordinate to you. You can give through transmission not just with conditions - which is how a lot of knowledge passed from Islamic Cordoba and Sicily up into Europe to kick start the Renaissance. Should we start saying you should be grateful to the Muslims for that? Do you even know that history to begin with? Sorry for sounding harsh - I match the energy someone is commenting in and as you give off a bigoted worldview I feel compelled to respond in kind. Check this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPYTwiUCNrv/ It's independent but not sovereign as any normal state would normally be which is where the issue is. This is why they never come to any conclusion and which is why I also think this next deal will also not end up bringing the peace we think. There's many holes and problems with its implementation that they are going to run into - Trump is prematurely claiming some victory because he dreams of the nobel peace prize. We can still hope though man.

What are they resisting exactly? Iran has been couped by the US/UK in 1953, invaded by US backed Kuwait in 1980's, and continues to be sanctioned and sabotaged till today with Israel being the launchpad from which this Western overreach continues to dominate the entire region. That's what Iran is resisting. Your such a racist bigot with retarded views yourself. I don't care if I get a warning for saying that - worth it in my opinion. They don't want to live independent but yet die fighting for independence don't they? Your logic is sloppy as hell. A religion can't be angry - you mean Muslims are angry lol. Without the Islamic golden age the West would probably still be in the Dark ages. From Chat GPT because I cba to waste energy writing to a bigot: ''When European scholars translated Arabic scientific works in places like Toledo, Sicily, and Córdoba, they rediscovered rationalism, astronomy, algebra, and physics. Figures like Roger Bacon, Copernicus, and Newton all cited Muslim scientists. Without that transmission, Europe wouldn’t have had the mathematical and experimental tools that made discoveries like electricity even conceivable. 1. The “Dark Ages” were a knowledge blackout in Europe. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire (5th century), Europe fragmented into feudal kingdoms. Literacy collapsed, libraries burned, and classical learning — from medicine to astronomy — nearly vanished. The Church monopolized knowledge, and scientific inquiry was largely stifled. 2. Meanwhile, the Islamic world became the keeper and innovator of knowledge. From the 8th to 13th centuries, the Islamic Golden Age flourished across Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, and Córdoba. Muslim scholars translated Greek, Persian, and Indian works into Arabic — preserving them from extinction — and then expanded them dramatically. They pioneered algebra, optics, chemistry, engineering, and medicine, while developing the scientific method centuries before Europe embraced it. 3. Europe “woke up” by rediscovering that knowledge through Islamic Spain and Sicily. When Christians in Europe began expanding southward (the Reconquista) and interacting with Muslim Spain, they encountered libraries, universities, and urban sophistication that dwarfed anything in the north. Cities like Toledo and Córdoba became translation hubs where Arabic texts were rendered into Latin. Scholars such as Gerard of Cremona and Adelard of Bath brought this rediscovered knowledge to Europe’s universities. This influx of ideas kickstarted the Renaissance — literally, rebirth — meaning a rebirth of knowledge Europe had lost and reacquired through the Muslim world. 4. The domino effect: Golden Age → Renaissance → Scientific Revolution → Electricity. Islamic empiricism inspired European scholasticism. That led to Copernicus, Galileo, Descartes, who built on Arabic astronomy and philosophy. That opened the path to Newton’s laws, and finally to Faraday and Maxwell, who formalized electricity and electromagnetism.''

Why did they stop them? For the same reason anyone would stop another people from governing over them. Hmm, perhaps Palestinians are human just like everyone else and would resist just like anyone else - as has been the case down history - most evident in anti-colonialist struggles. Why is it hard for you to understand Palestinians resisting the same thing? It's either because you have a Eurocentric bigoted world view, or maybe your just late for your siesta there in Spain papi.

@Breakingthewall That's basically a argument for colonialism though bro. If people are too unwise to govern themselves - then why have Democracy also because people are too unwise to vote properly? Results may vary. Flawed political freedom is still better than none at all - it’s still their right to work through internal issues themselves after solving the bigger issue of ridding themselves of someone else governing them. When Europe was in the Dark ages and the Islamic Golden age was in full swing should they have governed Europe with their more developed hygiene, education, libraries and hospitals? Should the Muslims of Al-Andalus who had street lighting go to literally ''enlighten'' the Europeans in their dark age and dark streets with no lighting at all? This rapper sarcastically mocks this very attitude in the first 2 minutes: ''Whoever's more human, must have the right to do the abusing. I imagine that that means you then, other human just as clueless, foolish fools. For a tortured soul, bought for a quarter of gold. One little slaughter whole, why not? They don't have souls. They love their children less than we do so they are less than equal. They abuse women so we kill them cuz they are bloody villains. That's right, we are the feminists, for the women of the world,(we) kill terrorists. Liberate them from their burkas (head covering) cuz they feel more free with the children murdered.'' Liberal interventionist pushers think blowing up a terrorist includes hijab and burkas flying off in the blast radius to liberate the women and free their hair..a step closer to free the nipple which is obviously the ideal we’re aiming for.

False. Muslims and Jews lived quite peacefully for centuries - fear and bloodshed only came along with settler colonially installed Zionism that's still persisting today. Hamas is a recent blip in the history of their relationship. America and the Western led order has been the system within which that fear has been inspired. Guess who wants to be left alone? Guess who's approached who first? Guess who's built a ring of bases around who first? Guess who's existing in who's imperial architecture and trying to extricate themselves from it? Your providing a laundry list of threats without any causality or entirely flipping the chain of cause and affect. Why is Iran acting through proxies? Why is Russia obsessed with buffer zones? Why is China building parallel systems? Where one chooses to start the causal chain determines who looks like the aggressor. If you start at Russia’s invasion, Russia looks like the aggressor. If you start at NATO’s expansion, Russia looks like reacting in self-defense. If you start at Soviet domination, NATO looks defensive again. We could go as far back and say God started it lol but that wouldn't help. The fairest and most practical cutoff is probably the creation of the new world order which is when power structures reset in a shifting of the guard. For our time that would be post WW2 and post Cold War: After 1945 a US led global system replaced European colonialism. And after 1991, that US system became unipolar and unchallenged. From that point onward, Western hegemony isn’t reactive - it’s structurally dominant. So reactions to it (Russia, Iran, China) are better understood as responses to that order, not random aggressions. Of course not everything is a reaction to the that order and things still happen independent of it. Everyone’s actions have deeper roots to the past which brings us to the chicken or the egg scenario - but the current geopolitical instability traces more directly to how the unipolar order has behaved after it won. The West had the structural power to shape global norms peacefully. It chose expansion and containment instead. The rest of the world is now reacting to that imbalance. The West is reacting to their loss of primacy within an order they used to reign supreme in but no longer do. Their lashing out cos their dying out in relevance and prestige. Sounds kinda Iranic, Sinic and Russophobic to me. Israeli's aren't the problem, the way they are acting upon their survival is - which isn't for survival at all. Jewish trauma was used to justify a state, bombing and dispossession Palestinians was simply designated as their fate, par for the course. Western bombs and violence are policy, anyone else's is pathology. The "maniacs" aren't at the door- they're in the house that used to be theirs before Israel kicked the door in and claimed God owed them the land. Now Israel's mad they won't leave or live in a subjugated peace? And the West's mad at their moral high ground being crumbled by social media that shreds the lies and narrative faster than they can paper over it with more spin. You want to be left alone? Cool. Close the bases, stop the interventions and overthrowing of governments, stop bombing countries back to the stone age claiming they are regressive whilst the bombs you send are progressive - a mentality that itself is of the a stone age. A mentality that can't handle the reality of multi-polarity because it wants to be the only pole other nations bow to and dance around like undignified strippers. Stop extracting wealth through structural adjustment programmes via the IMF, stop vetoing UN resolutions that would end your domination and stop weaponizing the dollar via sanctions that cover third of the world and perpetuate financial hardship for nations trying to develop. Then we can talk about being left alone. Till then - you can't have empire and isolation because that's not how a globalized imperial hegemon operates. So it's human nature to act in accordance to survival but when others do it its what? Authoritarian, regressive, backwards, false, non-understandable or relatable? If survival is beyond morality - then stop moralizing or being in denial of the survival of others. If that law is universal then it applies to them too. The question is whose survival is actually at stake? Is Western survival at stake from Chinese bases around it? Or Russian? Is Israels at stake by the countries around who it is in de-facto peace agreements with? This sea of hate narrative of Israel existing in a cesspit of 100's of millions of barbarians at the gates is an outdated myth. An actual threat assessment would conclude that their only real threat isn't annihilation by a power strong enough to annihilate them - but through exhaustion from proxies and non-state actors who spring up (and will continue to) because of the un-resolved issue of the Palestinian cause they want to turn a blind eye to or keep stalling for their own fetish of settling the land how they wish. Western imperialism and dominance has taught nations to shake in fear and suspicion of breathing too heavy. They then get gaslit as manics who we should panic about because they seem to be a bit shakey and ''unstable'' when they try stand up to us. All of a sudden the Western conscious seems to be aware of their own empire because of a loud mouth Orange man ripping the mask off - but most of the Global South was aware of that empire breathing down its neck for decades, including anyone in the West who actually opened their eyes in between changing of the guards from Bush to Obama to Biden - just bipartisan delusion masking unilateral abuses by the empire state. Simply put - special interests are sold to the demos (the people in ''democracy'') as their own national interest. Those special interests that fake being for your and mine national interest are the cause of the issue including issues plaguing our very own countries. Leo nails what Iran nails, what I nailed with what I just wrote above: A moment of truth:

Sounds noble on the surface but don’t miss the details of how the missing 4% get in the way of a viable state. I don’t think your talking about Oslo but here’s a map on what was offered there: https://www.anera.org/what-are-area-a-area-b-and-area-c-in-the-west-bank/ It’s quite obvious why that would be denied - your being offered a country like Swiss cheese with holes in it or like islands. Maybe not a issue if you were offered Maldives lol But the 96% offer at TABA runs into the same issue due to the settlements scattered everywhere. I found a map showing it: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/final-status-map-presented-by-israel-at-taba-january-2001 This was a joint summary prepared at the end of the talks and published by the EU (the host and observer): “The two sides presented their respective maps. The Palestinian side expressed its concern that the Israeli map did not ensure the territorial contiguity of the Palestinian state, due to the number and location of Israeli settlements and their access roads, which would divide the territory into separate cantons.” Even if only 4% of land is technically Israeli - the way it is spread throughout the land naturally requires settler routes and access to eachother and from IDF for patrol or protection ie occupation. Imagine if Russia said they need to protect Russian settlements scattered all over Ukraine and all they need is 4% of the land and access to the roads connecting to each settlement. Thats not a sovereign state or country. Besides this they still wouldn’t have control over the air, water or borders. It’s like you giving me my house back but controlling the door, satellite and wifi - and giving me a curfew for being naughty from time to time. Imagine me taking your house, then giving it back except the 4% of house space which is the toilet - and I told you to figure out where your going to poop and pee - it's only 4% of the house but what a inconvenience that will cause you constipation your whole life lol.

It also exposes their somewhere they shouldn’t be. Those withdrawals from Nablus, Jenin, Ramallah, Bethlehem, etc. were cosmetic. Israel carved the West Bank into islands under partial Palestinian control while it kept 60% of the land (area C) and full control of borders, air, water, and movement - basically creating bantustans. If you steal someone’s house and then later give back one room or floor, that shows you stole the house. But then you’ll say it shows goodwill and kindness. You show goodwill by totally leaving the house you shouldn’t be in to begin with. It’s the same with these deals being offered - offer shit deals that get turned down for being shit and then gaslight the other side as ungrateful negotiators - never mind Israel decapitating those negotiators across multiple sovereign countries.

Every “withdrawal” coincided with settlement growth elsewhere - every concession has been coupled with more dispossession. The main point is why were they even there in the first place? Withdrawing from land you have no right to occupy doesn’t prove goodwill, it proves the original sin of taking that land to begin with. “Before 1947, Palestinians made up about 67% of the population and owned around 90% of the land, while Jews were about 33% of the population and held only 6–7% of the land. The 1947 UN Partition Plan flipped that balance, giving Jews 55% of the land and Palestinians 45%, even though Palestinians were the majority. After the 1948 war and the Nakba, Israel expanded to control 78% of historic Palestine, leaving Palestinians with just 22% (the West Bank and Gaza). Following the 1967 war, Israel occupied even that remaining 22%, meaning Palestinians went from 90% of the land to effectively 0% sovereign control in the span of just two decades.” Flexing Israel’s later ‘’withdrawals’’ to somehow absolve them of their crimes and blur the situation as “complex” doesn’t cut it. It’s the same thing I see when Zionists flaunt their LGBT rights to pink wash their crimes. If Iran had a trans clinic would that somehow give them the green light to do bad elsewhere such as chant death to Israel and fly rocket kebabs into Tel Aviv? Lol

Yes! Compare the material conditions which is something you overlook. Religions and how the people of those religions show up can be shaped by those conditions. In Nigeria the South is mainly Christian and much more developed compared to the North which is majority Muslim - why? From a colonial legacy the British invested more in the coastal south where the port and capital (Lagos) is for trade and administration. More urbanization, schools and education etc. The South is also home to oil which makes up most of its exports and 50% of government income. Boko Haram come from Northern Nigeria due to those conditions of rural poverty and grievances against the South which make them ripe for extremism. They are also designated a terrorist group by most Muslim countries including the OIC - Organisation of Islamic Cooperation. Clearly that shows you there is a nuance within Islam that needs to be taken into account which you clearly don't because it doesn't fit your bigoted narrative. Uganda is a majority Christian country yet has some of the harshest anti-LGBTQ laws in the world pushed by evangelicals. Remember this meme: Context (material conditions) explains outcomes - not solely religious text. Evangelicals in US are also talking about stripping women and LGBT rights despite living in a developed country ie better conditions. Indonesia's the largest Muslim majority country in the world with relatively high literacy and women in politics with a female president in the past. Evil Islamic Pakistan and Indonesia have had a female president before the US. Indonesia's on course to be the 4th largest economy in the world in the coming decades with a healthy growth rate. I thought Islam opposes and sabotages all of that? Nah, that's just your bigoted view of it. All religion is spiritual at its core. Christianity was political for over a thousand years also - papal states, inquisition, crusades, divine right of monarchies. The New Testament had less rules and laws compared to the old one but the Church stepped in to make their own political frame work. Christianity looks “flexible” today because it was forced to reform by secular modernity and separation of church and state. Christianity had and still has both fundamentalists and reformists just as Islam has Sufi's and Wahhabists and every shade in between. That's too much nuance for you though lol you default to Black and white thinking rather than 50 shades of grey which is only reserved for Christianity to maintain your Eurocentric view of the world. Muhammad was a statesman involved in wordly affairs - he managed disputes, drafted treaties, encountered and lead in warfare etc so naturally the politics of day to day life were spoken about and built upon. He was straddling the ''other world'' and this world. That doesn't mean there was no faith or spiritual insight involved that inspired him or those that followed him. Today you see Sadhguru being a busy body doing all kinds of things - do we call him just a mystic talking only about the other world? Do we say he's not purely spiritual or mystical because of his dealings in this world of form? Or is it that you view pure spirituality as only when you simply exist in this blob of consciousness feeling all gooey, lovely and enlightened thinking your above the messiness of every day life and survival? And later concluding that anyone speaking on those realities isn't pure enough or is devoid of any form of spirituality? That's some liberal hippie shit son. I'm the bigot buster, the liberal delusionist dismantler, the spiral dynamic supremacist slayer.

Notice you take China, Japan, US and Israel's actions as human flaws that are understandable - but when it comes to Islam or Muslims you drop the nuance and call it a sickness. You essentialize Muslims and Islam as sick but excuse or sympathise with others as flawed human behaviour. That's why I wrote the good, bad and the ugly - you need distinctions and nuance. What China is doing is bad but it's in order to stop the ugly manifestation of fundamentalist Islam - a lot of these Uighurs came to fight with ISIS in Syria for example. That's not justifying China's actions but understanding it from a POV of a state maintaining its national security and territorial integrity from any secessionists - just as any state would do including Spain suppressing Catalonian secession. Bad can sometimes be defensive, ugly is domination dressed as survival, and evil is when you erase people’s humanity entirely. Israel is a mix - some things are defensive, a lot is just domination, and quite some evil has been seen on display also. Settlements, occupation, denial of statehood aren't purely survival but domination. This sea of hatred they exist in is caused by their actions of domination not survival - the way in which Israel is trying to ''survive'' ensures this hatred to exist. The hate is caused by the way in which they tried to settle the land initially, in which they are now fully settled within via a state - but that they now deny any settlement to Palestinians on their periphery. That's the whole issue here. You should know that the region was historically a relatively peaceful place between Jews and Muslims in which they actually sought refuge from persecution in the West - that all changed with the forced establishment of Israel where the fate of one group of people was decided by another (colonialists) - the same way today in which the so called deal is being decided without the input of the group that deal is supposed to be about.

@Ajay0 Nice and informative. I agree - its not totally scriptural but more of a social mechanism - which doesn't mean it doesn't come with its own downsides which it obviously does. Simply saying it's for organizing professional knowledge glosses over the injustices and baked in discrimination that easily would come from it. That's why I wrote linked and reinforced via Hinduism ie not rooted in Hinduism itself per se. Hindu texts such as Manusmritia legitimized caste hierarchy. Hindu society embraced it as religous and as sacred order via their temples, rituals, and priests enforcing untouchability. Ambedkar and Bhakti saints criticized Hinduism precisely because caste had become a lived reality of Hinduism for most people. It being abolished via law doesn't erase the hangover of its discrimination today especially in rural India - similar to how ending the slavery and segregation in America didn't immediately end discrimination which takes time to overcome. My main point as you can see in the comment was that all this doesn't make a religion inherently evil. Religion needs to be contextualized properly rather than just looked at literally - ironically the very thing that fundamentalists do and get called out for being extremists.

I agree - civilizations are a chain, not a hierarchy where one has a monopoly on truth or culture over another. He brings up how Islam built upon Greek works also - very interesting.

I got that lingo from this very forum where tongue in cheek things are called the devil all the time. The term ''Zen Devil'' also for example. It's not saying something is inherently evil but that we are all capable of the good the bad and the ugly - and calling that out for what it is. What the US and Israel are doing is ugly and devilish - and the US does bad things on mass scale whilst underwriting Israel doing more of the ugly things within their own proximity. Whats happening in China (ie Uighurs) is bad. Whats happening in Yemen and Sudan is ugly. There are degrees and scales to all this. Hitler and Stalin were Devils in chief then , today ISIS and Boko Haram take those mantles.

Let me introduce you to right wing populism that scapegoats other cultures being brought into the West via migration that are blamed for causing such decay lol. But the cleric thing definitely is a issue that needs to be watched out for I agree - it's just not the cause of the decay and neither is it representative of most Muslims - but marginalization and ghettoization can lead to radicalization which perverts the religion to more fundamentalist ends. Chat GPT comparing the Bible (Old and New) with the Quran: 1. War & Violence Bible (OT): Commands genocides (Amalekites, Canaanites, Midianites). Kill men, women, children, even infants and animals (1 Samuel 15:3). New Testament: Shifts war into apocalyptic vengeance — Christ returns “to judge and make war” (Revelation 19:11). Qur’an: Allows war in self-defense (2:190), forbids transgression, commands peace if enemy inclines to peace (8:61). 👉 Qur’an is more restrained. 📌 2. Women Bible (NT): Women must be silent in church (1 Cor 14:34), cannot teach men (1 Tim 2:12), must submit to husbands (Eph 5:22). Qur’an: Men have a degree of authority (4:34), but women inherit, own property, and divorce — radical rights for the 7th century. 👉 Both patriarchal, but Qur’an gave more rights in context. 📌 3. Punishments Bible (OT): Death by stoning for adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Lev 20:13), blasphemy (Lev 24:16), working on Sabbath (Exodus 31:15). NT: Focuses less on law, more on eternal damnation (“lake of fire” Rev 21:8). Qur’an: Corporal punishments exist (e.g. flogging for adultery, theft), but also calls for mercy, repentance, and feeding the poor as expiation. 👉 Harsh, but more options for mercy than OT law. 📌 4. Racism / Equality Bible: OT is tribal (“chosen people”); NT universalizes faith but still accepts slavery. Verses used for centuries to justify racism. Qur’an: 49:13: “No Arab over non-Arab, no white over black — only piety.” Last Sermon of the Prophet is explicitly anti-racist. 👉 Qur’an more egalitarian on race. 📌 5. Governance & Power Bible (NT): Romans 13:1–2 tells believers to obey all governing authorities — used to justify monarchy, slavery, colonialism. Qur’an: Emphasizes justice, consultation (shura, 42:38), and condemns tyranny. 👉 Qur’an more resistant to blind obedience. ✅ Overall Judgment Bible: Endorses slavery, genocide, patriarchal subjugation, and obedience to empire. Qur’an: Regulates harsh practices but consistently points toward justice, equality, and mercy, even if within a 7th-century framework. 👉 If you’re asking which text is more just, the Qur’an edges ahead in nearly every category except maybe gender (and even there, it granted women legal rights that the Bible didn’t).

From Chat GPT on the New Testament: Slavery Ephesians 6:5: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling.” 1 Peter 2:18: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters, not only to the good and gentle but also to the harsh.” War Revelation 19:11–16: Christ rides a white horse, “judges and makes war,” his robe dipped in blood, striking down nations with a sword from his mouth. Revelation 19:21: “The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse.” Matthew 10:34: “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Punishment 2 Thessalonians 1:8–9: Jesus will return “in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God… They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction.” Matthew 10:34: “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” John 15:6: “If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away like a branch and withers; the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.” Revelation 21:8: “The cowardly, the unbelieving… will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Authority and submission Romans 13:1–2: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” Ephesians 5:22–24: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord… as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” 1 Corinthians 14:34–35: “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission… for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” ____ The full quote of Jesus on the horse: ''Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.'' https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 19%3A11-16&version=NKJV GPT conclusion: The New Testament doesn’t command genocides like the Old Testament, but it spiritualizes war into eternal damnation for outsiders, calls Christ’s return a war on nations, and contains violent imagery that makes the Qur’an’s contextual battle verses look mild by comparison.'' _____ The point is this doesn't automatically make Christianity inherently evil because of such verses. Firstly there's a difference between descriptions (historical accounts) and prescriptions. For those times if certain norms existed them being spoken about doesn't mean being endorsed outright but regulated rather than not regulated with no rules around such norms (war, slavery etc). Secondly, you are either unaware of or leave out the fact of interpretation and jurisprudence which is a massive field on all religion. If Christians can reinterpret their “perfect scripture” to adapt to different times and contexts Muslims can too, and did. Saying Islam is frozen in time is just a stereotype of your bigoted worldview. The entire Islamic Golden Age - with its law schools, science, philosophy, and pluralism - was built on fiqh and reinterpretation. If Islam really froze in the 7th century that Golden Age wouldn’t exist. They applied jurisprudence, reasoning, and adaptation to new contexts and knowledge they got from the Greeks, Persians, and Indians - rather than simply living by a literal reading of the Quran. Literalism is the issue with fundamentalism and Islamists like ISIS for example - but that doens't represent majority of Muslims world wide.