Water by the River

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Posts posted by Water by the River

  1. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    @Water by the River there seems to be conflict ..on one hand i truly have reached a state of detachment that i don't care whatsoever if I live or die.. I feel like ive broken out of the matrix ..I see through ALL human societies bullshit brainwashing that keeps us chasing nothing like stupid donkeys instead of seeking spiritual liberation which is the ultimate goal.

    Maybe the matrix (which is not only "human societies", but also the little voice in the head)  is feeding you the next "bullshit brainwashing" called spiritual bypassing?

     

  2. Posted

    50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    Also I feel more spiritually oriented and focused . I don't give two fucks about my college and finance and chasing girls etc i feel like I'm being called by the universe to stay alone and quiet and just be in nirvana ecstasy bless and joy out of nothing .

    What does the universe mean by these idk.

    Maybe the universe means it wants to test you if you are smart enough not to skip&neglect college&finances?

    Without a more or less balanced and integral lifestyle most beings don't get anywhere near stable Awakening... because, best regards from Maslows Pyramids lower stages...

    Ken Wilber once said its hard transcending a separate self whose "wheels" (lower stages of Maslows Pyramid) squeel and scream with neglect and dissatisfaction...

    But on the other side, spiritual bypassing can be quite a show. Beneficial for the overall drama & entertainment factor of this Lila, less than beneficial for the individual performing the gig.

     

    Selling an Integral & balanced lifestyle at the River

     

  3. Posted

    10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    What is strange is the difficulty of people accepting reality. Even the most spiritually oriented people violently refuse to abandon the mind, they continue going around in circles without moving forward, always with the need to think that they have reached the goal, comparing themselves with others and all that.

     

    The hand of god at 50sec.

    Seen anywhere on this forum? A new higher mountain ^_^.

    Sorry.

    But hey, how could it be different. The game would be over prematurely...

    And apparently, looking at the state of things, if there is anything God doesn't want... is that the game is over yet.

  4. Posted · Edited by Water by the River

    2 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

    There is no deep sleep. You just think there is. But in direct experience we just time jump. 

    Deep sleep is "non-esisting", and obviously non-esistence is also non-existing. So there's none.

    And even if there would be some kind of non-existence it would just be experienced as a time jump because it is not existing.

    Or maybe what you call "Deep Sleep" is right here, right now? Never not right here right now?

    No objects appearing & moving = no time, that is true.

    So what is it that is always here, and never can not be?

    What is the timeless?

     

    All of that works as Koan.

    Why?

    Because all point to your True Infinite timeless Being.

  5. Posted

    9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I saw again the second, and its great, that guy is an arrow, his mind is sharp, clean. He says exactly the words that he wants. maybe there Is there a science about this and he learned some? But seems first hand understanding and total opening 

    Yes. He is enlightened & smart enough to understand the process and tell about it in a systematic way. 

    Since about 5-10 years there are increasingly excellent teachers describing the path in a non tradition-biased manner (not Buddhist-lingo, Not advaita, not Vedanta, not christian, not whatever), but with a clear phenomenology and structured & scientifiy way & language.

    Actually defining the terms they use in clear and coherent definitions, and showing the steps/experiments/injunctions necessary to get the reference experience, and then defining clear signifiers/words/definitions for these referent-experiences.

    John Churchill said in a podcast, we are witnessing the birth of a global Dharma. In 50-100 years, I guess we will not talk using Buddhist-Lingo, or Advaita, or whatever, but cross-tradition definitions of the steps of the path, highlighting universal steps of what happens in the mind on the path to salvation.

    Integrating the best and most efficient stuff of all traditions & current teachers available, That, and using psychedelics as preview & state-inductions of the awakened states.

    Interesting times to live in... 

  6. Posted

    7 hours ago, Purple Man said:

    Please, lend me a hand on this: How is the leap for the Godhead from not manifesting to manifesting possible if Self-Awareness is just an option that actualizes only after manifestation? This is really the last piece of the puzzle. I just can´t understand how Self Awareness, that is, Awareness of Its own Existence, is not the very essence of the Absolute even when there is cessation, since it takes "volition", "creativity", "desire to manifest", for manifestation to appear. 

    You are right that this is the last piece of the puzzle. Self-Awareness (bold marking by me), or awareness of its own existence is indeed NOT the   Absolute. Its the last illusion... I wouldn't say that for Awareness (since here we would be on slippery terrain), but for self-awareness/self-consciousness definitely.

    Massaro summarized it nicely. Maybe watch that video a few times, and then the other parts of the Infinity-series:

    Awareness is "always there" (or not, since its beyond existing and non-existing), at least as a potential for sentience (if nothing arises, aka cessation, deep sleep), but if there is nothing to perceive there is no (self-)-consciousness. Unaware Deep Sleep, Cessation. But it doesnt really make sense to talk about awareness/consciousness if there is no perception, since then there is also no self-consciousness or self-awareness. Its pure Infinity/Absolute. The clap of the one hand.

    THAT Reality/Being which can be unaware of itself is what you are. Not the (self-)awareness with which one identifies, that is one of the last lenses/filters of illusion. You can be nothing at all, unaware of yourself (since there is no self-reflective self yet), with the potential for sentience. In your case, I assume getting that is the last building block to Enlightenment and fully getting what you are.

    Without fully realizing that, there is a subtle murky "nothing" self (Roger Thisdell stage 4). Thisdells stage 5 (another video) is then the resolve of the contradictions of stage 4.

    Everything else after this True Being/Absolute comes later: Manifestation, Infinite Field of mere appearance, gods & humans & aliens and the whole shebang.

    The "I am self-Awareness/Consciousness" feeling/thought/Gestalt (very subtle, hard to spot, the end boss so to say) is the last illusion/filter/lense of the last separate-self that can be constructed. And since it can be seen, since it changes, its an object, temporary, moving in True You.

    Leaves us with the point who/what realized all of that? Reality/Being realizes itself. And that is called Enlightenment. Its not personal, its not anything separate. It is Reality comprehending itself.

     

    Jac O'Keffee:

    "We're left with consciousness that cannot know  itself. It's such a fundamental that it actually   can't know itself.

    However, it is known.  You can drop back there and it is known,   but you can't bring yourself there  or your capacities to know it.  

    It's almost like it's so fundamental  that it can't turn around and see itself.   It doesn't see itself. That's too much  movement. That's movement such as space,   time and identification and me, myself, I,  and the building of my movie that happens".

     

    And maybe most important. It is not an it, or an Absolute, or anything "third person singular"-pronoun at all that "has" "Awareness" and explodes into manifestation. IT IS You. True You. With a big Y. 

    That becomes totally obvious when the whole field is a mere appearance floating in Nothingness/Infinity (1), and you are "It" since there is no separate anything left at all, no center at all left (2). Nondual mere appearance, impersonally floating in the Infinite impersonal Universal Mind. Something reflecting about what it is (awareness,self-awareness, whatever) is already a separate-self (a manifestation, arising, moving within You. I-Thoughts/I-feelings have no dimension or form, but are still appearance/imagination/arising/"form"), and that hides the True Reality/Being. Too much movement... So yes, its tricky...

    Roger Thisdells stage model is nice. Since at stage 3 "Big-Mind" (Frank Yang called that God-state, easy to be reached via Psychedelics), one is already the nondual field (1). But getting the separate self mostly empty (Thisdell stage 4), and totally empty (Thisdell stage 5, centerlessness, Enlightenment), needs emptying out the separate-self completely. I have never seen one case where that was done mainly or purely with psychedelics. Not enough time in these states to empty out/transcend/understand the "high-speed-machine-gun-illusion-fire" of the separte-self-ego. But instead that lovely darling quite active appropriating all of the Nondual Infinity, Gods, Demons, ETs, n+1... Which sometimes is not for the faint-of-hearted.

     

    Ok, so, after mis-understanding the question the way I wanted in order to write about what I liked, lets come back to the original question: 

    And why the "first" movement happened?

    1.First, that is a question that presupposes duality. Form vs. emptiness, and also time. Which means it can't really be answered on the level of concepts. But lets try it anyway as good as possible, just so that it calms the remaining questions you have, so that you can rest in your True Being in a non-conceptual way so that the Big Bang can happen..

    2. Think in dimensions of Indras Net. Just because "your" perspective is "switched off" in cessation/deep sleep doesn't shut off all other perspectives. Understanding one single perspective ("yours") is enough to understand the structure of all perspectives/beings/nodes in Indras Net as Universal/Infinite Mind. Indras Net (which is also True You, but lets take the separte perspective) "continues" happily even if your perspective goes cessation/infinite/blank.

    3. Who said it ever started? That is already a lot of Duality smuggled in.

    The past is imagined in its Totality right here and now. Its all a big illusion, including the past. True You is here right now, imagining all of it, fooling itself with such questions as you have (sorry to say, but you are close to the endgame boss, so I hope you forgive me). Get "rid" of the questions, let them dissolve in your infinite Nondual Being as mere movements of thought-arisings, and rest in your being in a non-conceptual way (Nonmeditation-Yoga). And sometimes softly ask yourself "who hears these words right now", but without effort and grasping. I have written extensively about Nonmeditation-Yoga (Mahamudra) somewhere else. Then the Big Bang can happen, Infinite Reality understanding itself.

    4. Only Formlessness/emptiness/Infinity would be an asymetry. God has infinite potential of manifestation that apparently is being explored right here & now by "you" and "me" and "everyone else". To use a human metaphor: It is the nature of the Infinite to explore its potential, going from each creation cycle to the next. There have been many descriptions when coming out of cesstion/Nirvikalpha this original impulse for creation can be experienced. Not IN cessation (since there is nothing/pure infinity), but coming out of it.

    And, since its en vogue, lets close with ET:

     

    After so much Selling Water by the River, here the much more precise summary: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! - Basho

  7. Posted

    9 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

    who is the boogeyman? @Water by the River

    well, large choice at the buffet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_deities

    For the journey:

    Grof, Stanislav: Books of the Dead: Manuals for Living and Dying

    https://www.amazon.com/Books-Dead-Manuals-Living-Imagination/dp/0500810419/

    "The art of dying and the posthumous journey of the soul have been described and depicted in many cultures. 'Dying before dying', or practice in dying, has been sought throughout history, not just to overcome fear and give help at the moment of death, but to transfigure the quality of life. Stanislav Grof considers some of the most striking and important of the so-called 'books of the dead': ancient Egyptian funerary texts; the Tibetan Bardo Thodol; Maya and Aztec myths of the death and rebirth of the Hero Twins and the Plumed Serpent, Quetzalcoatl. From Europe come Christian visions of the soul's journey, the danses macabres, and imagery of mortal decay that recalls Tibetan practices. The 'books of the dead' are universally relevant as maps of a terrain that each of us will one day traverse."

    and a more up-to-date version:

    Ziewe, Jürgen: Vistas of Infinity - How to Enjoy Life When You Are Dead

    https://www.amazon.com/Vistas-Infinity-Enjoy-Life-When/dp/1326353381

    Coming back to the boogeyman:

    The most handsome and charming:

    the most hilarious:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort

    so, its always, for sure: You never walk alone

     

    Why should the illusion stop just because one is dead? That would be easy...

     

  10. Posted

    19 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

    When we perceive the world from the ego lense then the ego is a subject and the world is an object. 

    When we transcend the ego depending on the technique, words, tradition, our conditioning we are either left with the feeling of 
    1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left.
    2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears. 

     

     

    32 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

    1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left

    1. in Thisdells stage-system stage 3. Classic Nonduality with individuality/"I" still intact, although a bit emptied out. "I" "am" pure Consciousness/Everything/Reality/God/whatever.  The Godself. The I extended to cosmic proportions. Or I am God. Or infinite ET. Or whatever. Either way, often not for the faint-hearted.

    Franks take on that:

     

    32 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

    2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears.

    2. is normally this here: Stage 4. A "murky" Individuality still left, making that stage still contradictory, and... still suffering with resistance to what is.

     

    And stage 5 is the end of the game:

     

    33 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

    So the whole discussion really just comes down to acknowledging both sides and dropping them both and being left in pure _____. :x

    Yup. ^_^

    And since all of these stages can sound quite similiar, there are a lot of possibilities to... end up halfway up the mountain and declare it summit. And still suffer/resist what is, and declare that unavoidable.

    Selling Water by the River

  14. Posted

    Just now, Breakingthewall said:

    Not for me. For me the thing is: at a given moment reality is an unlimited well, there is no one, it is not thinkable, it is total freedom, the reaction is laughter. There is not a single molecule of imperfection or sadness. At the same time, the mind is active in the background and thinks: obviously, it is impossible for me to fall back into a limited state. The energetic flow of reality is perceived, it is the infinite being now, there is nothing more to know or analyze about this. At a certain point, the mind starts trying to capture the scene again, for example thinking about other people, etc., and everything closes. once closed it is closed, and opening it again requires serious effort, meditation, anesthetizing the mind with drugs, etc.

     

    vs.

     

    I don't know a single case where stage 5 has been achieved without a looong meditation practice getting rid of the subtle remnants of stage 4. Because it takes a long time (for most) at the awakened nondual states of stage 4 to get rid of the most subtle remnants of the separate self.

    Psychedelics get one to stage 3 (nondual Unity Godmind), or in more sophisticated cases to stage 4. 

    The difference between stage 4 and stage 5 is the death of any and all separate self identity in real time. Not one single subtle element of that sticks any more and is not seen trough/cut off/ seen as moving within oneself. And there are many very subtle elements that can prevent realization.

    And the difference between stage 4 and 5 is earth-shaking. That is why its called Enlightenment. And that prevents the clouding over you describe.

     

  16. Posted

    8 hours ago, Reciprocality said:

    @Water by the River of course there is someone home, these "sacred sightings" becomes memories for the same self who with few sparks intended to move their eyes.

    The difference is that the sightings does not connect to hundreds of disjoint and conflicting narratives.

    The man is one with his surroundings, and he is one with all our and our ancestors selfs, telos, but he is so from a particular position, all connecting (likely later) to who he ones was, but in his case (in this particular timeframe) the connection is not in contradiction while in my and many others case it is.

     

    http://hauntedpress.net/What_is_Enlightenment.html

    "Feel what it is like to “not be there.”

    The real breakthrough will come when you “feel” the truth.

    It's creepy, not blissful or ecstatic. It should scare you, the body should react defensively, or there could be uncontrolled laughter at how stupid you have been for so long.

    It's like one of those 3-D dot pictures - you stare and stare at those dots until, bingo! - the hidden picture emerges. After that, you can always see it; it can't be unlearned. It's the same with enlightenment."

     

     

     

     

    and, maybe the most clearest of these videos

    Colette Davis:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/C2wckwKSZme/

    https://www.instagram.com/thatbeyondduality/

     

    Feel any similiarities? Internally, its perceptions perceiving themselves. The former persona moving like the wind in ones boundless nondual Being, and sometimes not being there at all. Nobody home. Literally the Totality perceiving itself, nobody home...

    And its not the nobody home of Avril Lavigne... It is the nondual infinite boundless Unity/Being, the Fullness of Infinity where nothing could ever possibly lack, which is not separated by a separate self cutting Reality/Being into subject/object, inside/outside, higher/lower...

     

     

  17. Posted

    8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

    Exactly, be enlightened doesn't mean that you know anything. If fact I'd say that "know" must be removed. Same than understand. Is to open now to what is, and realize that it's what you are. Simply that. then you can remove the circumstance from what you are, all the meaning, and discard it as a mental illusion, and be left with the bottomless present that is. totally empty of any content, without meaning, sense, purpose, cause, finality. It's only now, bottomless.

    but there is also something else. There is a strange, powerful, living revelation. If you penetrate into the bottomless now and open yourself to it, the force of what lives opens in you, it is like a source of unlimited energy, of creation. intelligence of a power that blinds, that destroys your mind and disintegrates all your structures to manifest its magnitude and its absolute reality. It is the cosmos that lives, monstrously alive. Is that an illusion? I don't think so, seems absolutely real, is the infinite manifestation, as absolute than the empty being. what do you think? Deceived?

    The Infinite Reality/Universal Mind/Being is in nondual unity with its (temporarily and always changing) appearing manifestation. Since there is no constant object (none, it all is in flux and changes), one could call it temporary illusion. 

    The Infinite Reality/Being containing and manifesting/imagining it (like dreamer in a dream) is the constant, although it literally is formless. Yet, it has the potential for the illusion/manifesting creation, and also for awareness/sentience/self-consciousness. And that potential awareness becomes consciousness/self-aware if manifestation happens.

    So yes, all you write is correct. Although you separate the  empty Reality" bottomless present that is. totally empty of any content, without meaning, sense, purpose, cause, finality. It's only now, bottomless" a bit too much from its manifestation/form, which you mention as " It is the cosmos that lives, monstrously alive. Is that an illusion? I don't think so, seems absolutely real, is the infinite manifestation, as absolute than the empty being. what do you think?". I dont't know if I got you correctly and if you mean it like that, but it reads like that. The manifestation is as real or unreal as anything else. It is temporary, not constant, so in the end illusion/appearance and not "out-there". But "real" as appearance.

    The potential to manifest is the potential of Reality itself. But it doesnt need to do that to be. What it is for sure is temporary and changing. Reality/the essence of True Infinite Being is not changing. Although it is formless.

    Most often: Reality = formless Reality/Being + manifestation

    also possible: Reality = formless infinite Reality/Being + NO manifestation (cessation, Deep sleep)

    not possible: Reality = no formless infinite Reality/Being + manifestation

    The question is always: What is more fundamental. Or constant. Or timeless. Or always here. And do I identify with that on a deep level, in daily life (truly nondual then, and nobody separate home), or with passing arisings. The arising of (self-)consciousness is NOT constant, see for example deep sleep or cessation. Any form of I-feeling/I-thoughts (these can be very subtle) is non-constant arising, or not ones True-Self.

    Any form of resistance to what is right here right now is also just false-separate-self/resistance/arising/illusion/ignorance. And if the not-from-this-earth- consciousness is also just an arising, temporary form of (self-)consciousness, and with that a manifestation in True Being/Reality.... well...

     

  19. Posted

    And maybe the illusion continues like that?

    The show changes. Infinite Being remains. Nowhere else to go. Nothing outside. Infinite Formless Being always already, containing/manifesting all form/show... And that obvious realization is the liberation of Enlightenment. Deathless and eternal.

    Reality/True Being will stay eitherway, whatever may arise again. Nowhere else to go..

    And not everyone is a OBE-explorer like Jürgen Ziewe: A monk asked a Zen master, “What happens when you die?” The Zen master replied, I don’t know.” The monk said, “What do you mean. Aren’t you a Zen master?” And the Zen Master replied, “Yes, but I’m not a dead one.”

     

     

  20. Posted

    "This is the end, beautiful friend
    This is the end, my only friend
    The end of our elaborate plans
    The end of everything that stands

    ...

    Can you picture what will be?
    So limitless and free
    ...

    This is the end, beautiful friend
    This is the end, my only friend
    The end

    It hurts to set you free
    But you'll never follow me
    The end of laughter and soft lies
    The end of nights we tried to die

    This is the end"

    So.

    What is the end?