samijiben

Yes, my mind is somewhat fixed that it does not fall under the legal definition of genocide that already exists. Kinda like how Nilsi in this thread told Hojo that schizophrenia can't be so loosely defined BECAUSE WE ARE WORKING WITH A PRESET STANDARD DEFINED BY SOCIETY (consensus agreement definition of genocide) According to that definition, yes, I am quite sure that it is not genocide. In regards to what is REALLY happening in Gaza, including the ACTUAL INTENTIONS of the Israeli government, I don't have a fucking clue, nor do you, so step down, Wilhelm. That is, until you provide a well-reasoned case for why it is genocide WITHOUT twisting and contorting the definition provided by the UN. Of course, according to your logic, you have. So this is going nowhere. Agree to disagree? Lol. The line is completely blurred between pure self-deception and cleanly categorizing this catastrophe into any limited notions or encapsulations given by others. So, in the end, let the mystery be, but don't call it a genocide, for it is much worse than that — and more nuanced.

Blaming Israel or even Bibi is just as dumb as saying this is a just war, for he who is truly at fault for this catastrophe is a much uglier beast than Bibi. It is the Deep State. Lol.

I read Raze's post. I looked at all the articles linked in this thread. I actually spoke with Amos Goldberg, but that was before the genocide. I am familiar with the intellectual position of those who regard Israel as the Evil Zionist Entity that occupies & colonizes & indiscriminately butchers its targets in this calculated, machiavellian genocide. Not saying that Netanyahu isn't a deranged animal My point in this thread in terms of motivation was to implore you to gawk that, despite this being very hard if not Impossible to accept. this is not genocide, that is, it does not fall under the legal definition of genocide according to the logic I provided above which I believe to be flawed and imperfect. THE ACTUAL SITUATION ON THE GROUND may be much worse and terrific than "genocide," far beyond what any of us can ever imagine, though videos and footage gives us an idea of the horrors. Again, the situation on the ground in Gaza is beyond what we can know. We are not in Gaza. AIn't a single Gazan on the actualized.org forum. Ultimately, what is happening in Gaza is a philosophical matter. That cannot be known. Just like nothing can be known. But according to the already-in-existence-legal definition of genocide that I did not personally create, the war in Israel does not categorically fall under that. I am not reinforcing a belief-system here. Can you please provide me an argument to change my mind? I feel like that Crowder Dickhead: "Change my mind!" Seriously, I cannot see a possibility how this could be genocide. (again, according to legal definition of genocide and taking into account that we're gonna have to consider a ton more wars throughout histories as genocide if we're gonna bend the definition with such flexibility)

8 days sober today. Haven't been sober for this long in... I don't even remember. Like @Aramara said, I feel almost like I can see color for the first time again. Like I regained a sense that I had lost. And I was smoking dailly, multiplle multiple multiple times daily. Im sure after 3 months will be even better

Those numbers you are replying to are bull. @Hatfort Give me a source that shows that 400,000 Gazans have been killed, half of which being children. This is the most obvious form of propoganda on this form to date. Don't spread such blatant misinformation.

Oh, 92% of residential buildings damaged? Must be genocide, right? Case closed. Forget trials, legal definitions, or anythíng silly like proof of intent. Look, I get it — it feels like genocide. And I know feelings are doing a lot of heavy lifting in this convirsation. But that’s not how this Works, Wilhelm. You keep repeating the same stat like it’s a mic drop, but let’s be real: If Hamas sets up HQ in a hospital basement, stores rockets in UN schools, and fires from densely packed residential areas on purpose... — What do you think happens next? Peaceful negotiation? Precision sniping from space? Come on, man. Yes, it’s devastating. Yes, thousands of civilians have died. That’s a tragedy. But that doesn't make it a genocide. I have said this thrice throughout this thread. Collateral damage still isn’t the same as deliberate intent to murder a people. That distinction is important. You don't just bulldoze legal definitions because you’re emotionally convinced of something. And sure, throw in the “you’re just in denial because you can’t imagine Jews doing bad things” line. But I don’t believe in collective sainthood. Not for Israelis, not for Palestinians, not for anyone. History proves humans are capable of everything, as you said — including twisting facts to fit emotional narratives. I’m not going to throw out the definition of genocide because it feels like one. I’m not going to decide based on aerial photos and vibes. Genocide requires intent to exterminate a peoples. You don’t get there just by pointing at broken buildings and saying, “Looks genocidal to me.” If you’ve got a document, a statement, a policy that shows Israel’s leadership saying, “Let’s wipe out Palestinians as a group,” I’ll read it. Seriously. But, so far, you’ve given me a body count and a theory, not a case. So, no, I’m not in denial. I just don’t equate destruction with genocide because I still think definition matters. Genocide is the most serious acusation you can make. It has to be based on more than numbers & emotions. The strongest indicator that I am wrong is how angry I feel writing this. Not your argument. Your argument is buttocks.

Nah dude, fuck with the reminders. I'm done with this thread. You win. It's a genocide.

I told you already.

Thanks! That makes sense! No glaze lol, but I really admire your ability to explain shit well. It's fucking great! Have a good day!

Wilhelm, an accusation of genocide must rest on evidence, not thought experiments. The UN actually has NOT declared this officially as a genocide. Officials within the UN have, but not the body as a whole. Also, please remember that intent still matters. Just because this is a horrific war with thousands of civilians deaths, and just because Gaza is a shell of itself, does not mean it's genocide. That is a mental jump. The legal threshold for genocide is intent to destroy a racial, ethnic or religious group. I told you that my position is not "definitely not genocide" — just that I'm not convinced yet. You asked me to imagine accepting this as a genocide. Fair. I did that. Now I ask you: can you imagine that what's happening, while catastrophic & unjustifiable in many ways, might still fall short of genocide? Wilhelm, genocide is not a term that you can just throw around. It has a specific definition. That being said, as we both mentioned, it does not matter how we label this catastrophe in regard to the real suffering it has caused many, many people. Understand that I am not downplaying the harsh reality of what's happening. But you must provide a well-reasoned argument for why Israel is commiting genocide for me to take you seriously. Saying that Bibi thought: "Fuck it, let's kill them all" is speculative.

1. Suck the Energy on the Outside Inwards instead of projecting the energy on the Inside Outwards 2. Scream in your Mind 3. Become the Room Credit @Hojo for #1 & #2.

Great read! This really helps explain the Jungian psychology of anima & animus. Who even knows if Jung understood it like you do... This is really important stuff. Though I don't really agree with one part, which is that going to the gym & developing physical prowess is purely feminine. Seems to be an example of when both come together??? (Masculine & feminine..) Anyways, doesn't matter. This is awesome insight. Thanks Emerald.

You don't gotta leave your friends and your church and your Christian community to transcend the belief-sysyem that goes along with it. Behold the enlightened churchman!

I went there. It cured my rat-trauma When I went on one trek without lodges in Annapurna (North ABC), me and my German friend slept in a "shelter" (three-walled rock-hut). Middle of butt-fuck nowhere. Night comes. And there are rats in the shelter with us. I hear them scurrying about our midst. I jolt. "Veles!!! THERE'S FUCKING RATS IN HERE MAN!" "Yeah, so what? Go to sleep?" He was indifferent. But I was writhing around, utterly uncomfortable. It was more disturbing than then that time when my ex had the most heinous breakdown on the streets of Jerusalem at 3am. She went bezerk. It was hard. But these rats were another level. I was hysterical. I was horrified. I held onto my friend, Veles. I was crying into his arm. I was so goddamn scared of those rats. After I finally fell asleep for a few minutes, I woke up to one of those bastards gnawing at my hair. Euuuuuggghhh!! My German friend was stoic. He was such a strong man, unperturbed by the rats. Fucking Germans. I did not sleep a wink that night. I sat upright, alert, terrified, on the look out for the rats. They ate a one and half pieces of our roti by the time morning came. He teased me about it for a long time after. I dedicated many pages in my diary to the "Plight of the Rats." However, When I went to the Rat Temple, i resolved my rat-trauma. There were just so many of those nasty fuckers, I realized they were benevolent little creatures. Still, I don't like it when they eat my hair in a three-walled shelter in the shivering cold mountains at night. That will live on as the single most horrific night of my life. Except when the trees tried to kill me when I was tripping off 500ug of LSD when I was 14 years old, running from the cops with my friends in downtown San Francisco. Ahhh, memories!

That's a badass response. #freehuman

The reality IS hard to accept. But what IS that reality? Calling it genocide doesn't do it justice. It is much more evil than that. And more nuanced. At the end of the day, you think that Israel is commiting genocide, so be it. I think that what is happening is a bit more tricky than that. I won't settle for a simple definition. Sir Wilhelm of South Africa, I love you. Leave it there. Arguing is no fun for me.

@Joshe or, from another perspective, we are already in the forth world war, and it's all happening in your mind. Behold the chaos of insanity first-hand. Terroism & very bad things are imminent indeed. But they are not occuring elsewhere, "out in the world." Your Mind is the biggest and only host of terror worldwide.

Whatever is happening, it is not a genocide. It is also not not a genocide. Call it whatever you want. It is just one of the dark alleyways of your mind. Story ends there. I'm done with this thread.

Source?

Dear Sir Wilhelm of South Africa, Genocide has a specific meaning. The UN defines it as acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Hamas — the stated target of Israel’s war — is NOT such a group. It’s a militant, ideological organization, not a race, ethnicity, or religion. If you're eliminating a military threat, that’s brutal war, not necessarily genocide. Another reason is that Israel is not trying to starve Palestinians. Israel has sent more than 1.3 million tons of aid since the war began (more than any other nation has). That doesn't exactly scream "We want to wipe you off the map." Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is the aid enough? Arguably no. But it shows some level of effort to not commit genocide. You would be hard-pressed to make the case that this is all a show to "save face." Also, this war was triggered, not premeditated. Before Oct 7, Israel was pretty much disengaged from Gaza. Hamas crossed a line with that attack. It was an unprovoked, horrific massacre of civilians. Israel’s military response, whatever you think of it, is rooted in self-defense logic, not extermination. Their goal is stated clearly: eliminate Hamas’s capability to repeat such attacks. If genocide were the goal, Gaza would look a lot more like a parking lot by now. With the firepower Israel has, if their intent were to truly wipe out Palestinians, there would be no hospitals, no aid convoys, no evacuation leaflets, etc. Doesn’t this suggest at least some intent to distinguish between civilians and combatants?

Yup, that's the answer I was looking for. Goodnight.

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes, thank you, no grain of salt neccesary. With your input & anecdotes plus all the scientific studies out there, isn't it just str8 fax that screens screw with sleep? And yet here I am texting you past my bedtime 💀 I think I gotta bash my phone.

You mentioned the bacon thing. We can both smell the same bacon. But only YOU can FEEL the sensation of, say, getting punched in the gut.. I have pondered this too many times. It is such a mindfuck. This duality between you and me, self and other, is one of the trickiest goddamn things, man. I just don't get it!

Everything is appearing out of nothing. Fine. But I have a question. Where does my experience begin and your experience end? I cannot stomach the reality that I am hallucinating you & my mother & all others into existence. This is one of the biggest unresolved conundrums of Mind. (For me)

Hola Princessa, This is fucky territory. I also don't know how it is possible that you exist. And I exist too. You and me, forever and ever? Babe? No? Maybe so? Could it be? And so it is!