Karmadhi

Thinking Israel is currently fighting primarily to free the hostages is as delusional as thinking Russia is invading Ukraine to denazify it. I do not think you need a lot of intelligence to see that their current government is a bunch of right wing racist neo nazi fanatics that want to cleanse Gaza and annex it. That is their goal at the moment. If it was about hostages they could easily do a permanent truce with Hamas and get them back. Not only they are not doing it, but they keep bombing Gaza, endangering the hostages lives and even shooting at naked civilians wearing white flags which results in accidental hostage killings.

Because someone signing up to fight for an army and killing people is not the same as a 5 year old being blown up in house sleeping at night. There is a big moral difference between soldiers and civilians. Also big moral difference between kids and adults. Kids are like half dying here.

They also ignored countless warnings for the attack. And also put an embargo on Gaza, denied them an airport etc. How come your glorious PM secretly supported and funded Hamas? You keep ignoring this but it is very important point. Hamas suited Israeli government agenda, so how exactly do you justify this?

Even if it is true, Ukranian looses are also reported to be huge. So it goes both ways. Also Ukraine has 4x less people, millions have fled the country and many deported into Russia. Also at least 10.000 civilians dead, probably more while Russia has like 25 so far. So demographically they have suffered far more than Russia has.

Perhaps, but I would argue that calling out devilry is still a more evolved position than justifying devilry.

@Leo Gura Dont bother with these pro Israelis, they are totally brainwashed. It is sad that followers of your work can justify devilry of this scale. It just shows that if they justify these barbarisms even though Israelis have barely suffered under Palestine, imagine the hatred Palestinians must have towards Israelis where they been through 1000x worse for decades. Can you blame someone celebrating on 7th of October when they have personally had their home stolen and had family members killed by Israelis? I think most normal people would. Meanwhile how most Israelis never have had their homes stolen or had family members killed by Palestinians? Barely any Yet they equally celebrate. Shows how deep the hatred and brainwashing, is.

@kenway I do not think it is worth sending here posts about Israeli daily barbarism. I think everyone here is fully aware of what is going on there and the pro Israelis here are fully in denial about Israeli's barbarism, they will not be convinced. I am quite disappointed that people that follow Leo's work are so biased but I guess when you have been brainwashed all your life to believe your country is good, nothing will convince you.

They do count, it is around 1700 for Mauripol and they say "probably thousands higher". So probably above 1700 and below 10.000. Which would make sense given that there were around 100.000 in the city at the time.

And what about Ukraine? I hear their losses are also very heavy and unlike Russia they cannot as easily replace them. Also where did you get the 300.000 from? I did not see anything on that except some shady US reports which are not credible. To be honest Ukraine youth is suffering far more than Russia from this war. Do not forget about the millions that also fled.

Considering they got their land stolen and treated like shit for decades they act quite civilized I think. Switch your place with theirs for some months then talk. So you suggest they bow down to the thieves that took their land? Most people tend to fight hard for their land. Look at Ukraine. I do not see them bowing down to Russia. The West Bank authority would be down for that if they got some normal terms. Meaning 50/50 split. Israel has thousnads of kids in jails for arbitrary reasons. Why you get so emotional about 1 kid? Thousands are suffering in Israeli jails at the moment. Israel used to put kids in cages. I do not see Hamas do so to that girl. It is sad what happened to her but it is funny when Israeli cry when they have 1000x worse. Remind me who has a genocide case at the moment against them? There are countless articles from respectable sources saying so. If you want to ignore them that is on you. The Hamas that your Neo Hitler Leader Benjamin has openly supported and founded? Interesting... If Israel minded its own business rather than steal land people would not be stuck in Gaza in the first place. From what I saw on the 1947 borders all the areas near Gaza were Palestine. All the areas Hamas attacked are Palestine. I am sorry for what happened to the people there but they do not belong to live there. It is stolen land. You can make the case about Israel existing but the UN plan of 1947 did not include all the areas near Gaza, the same areas Hamas attacked as Israel. Funny when thieves start crying once they are faced with the consequences of their theft.

Why dont they send their soldiers to fight? They have like 400.000 of them. Send them in the tunnels. Also surgical strikes and sending them in tunnels. I am sure some may die but better than 10.000 childreen dead. Also this way actually Hamas gets killed. Issue is that they would rather kill 10 kids than risk 1 of their soldiers lives which is a flawed inhumane position since that kid is a third party and equally innocent to the hostages that they are trying to save. But lets be real, they see those childreen as not innocent. Lets not kid ourselves here.

@kenway I love how these Israelis are totally cold and non reactive to all the horrible stuff you send here everyday and just rationalize it away or totally ignore it. It makes sense why Hamas would target civilians in purpose, when Israelis do not see Palestinians as humans. Any sane human would protest to stop the killings, I saw some sane Israeli organizations are doing so. Most are not unfortunately. How are they better than the Gazans that celebrated on the streets I wonder?

If Hamas are terrorist raping monsters devils how come they treated her so well? Even her father says so. No raping, no beatings, no nothing. Interesting.

And what about West Bank? I do not think people have issues with how Israelis treat the Arabs in Israel per say. Issue is more about West Bank that is treated like a terrorist state.

I have seen countless videos of Israelis cheering as rockets were launched towards Gaza even before the October attacks. There are countless videos of people singing about destroying Gaza, saying "we will kill you all", settlers supporting illegal settlements etc. Elementary school children's being taught Arabs are horrible etc etc .The hatred is immense towards Palestinians, it goes both ways. Both sides have immense hatred towards the other. It is really sad. I can send you the clips if you want. US is way too corrupt from the powerful Jewish lobby to do any objective action here. Basically Israel is like a rapid dog without a leash wreacking havoc. There should be international organizations to stop a country from just going crazy and ignoring all laws. There should also be mechanism to punish a country if it does so. Russia is another example. However with Israel considering how small they are, it is even more absurd that they are allowed like this. UN has proven again to be totally useless. US/Russia/China these are the true UN.

Historically they do care, they went to war about this issue multiple times. The current regime in Egypt is a US puppet state so not suprissed about it. However, I have many friends from there and the general sentiment is that they heavily support Palestine, especially the religious ones. The government... Although I have also seen that Israel blocked a lot of things for Gaza like building an airport. It is not just Egypt, also Israel has immense power over what is allowed in Gaza. They purposely left them isolated. Also their lovely PM secretly supported Hamas in order to keep that place destabilized. So he is also largely to blame for the attack.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that it is not realistic for Israel to be super clean and respectful towards civilians when they were attacked by Hamas. The only solution to me, is for other powerful countries, including USA, Russia etc to basically force Israel into obeying international law. If someone murdered my friend, I would rush towards to kill them, it is not realistic for others to tell me, "get over it bro". But it is very realistic for others to stop me and hold me from doing so when I rush to kill him for murdering my friend. The same logic applies for Hamas ofc. Therefore, forcing Israel into obedience is the most realistic solution. The hurt person will not object to restraint, it is not realistic. However, I still think Israel has gone too far at this point. Killing 20x is overkill, but being totally clean is a bit not realistic. @Nivsch

No I mean many European countries did not want to take the Jews that the Nazis kicked. Why so? I am not saying that Jews were bad, I am saying exactly that the argument "why dont these people take these guys" does not mean anything. Just like Jews were not bad and still Europe did not take them, Palestinians are not bad and Arabs do not take them. And unlike Jews in Europe back then, Palestinians have indeed their own land and state so no reason for them to leave on the first place. I live in the West and I do not recall the government here to sterlize black women without their consent so they will not reproduce, the same way Israel did for Ethiopian Jews. Western values my ass... Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent | The Independent | The Independent Forced contraception of Jewish Ethopian women is tip of global iceberg | Lisa Hallgarten | The Guardian Some links from Western Media in case you do not believe me.

Israelis use the "Why dont Arabs take them, if they do not take them, it means they do not want them so they are bad" type of argument. Let me ask you this, why did Europeans kick out the Jews from Europe in the 1930s? Why they did not take them when they fled Germany? You do realize the Nazis used exactly the same arguments to justify their brutal policies, "Look these European countries do not want Jews either, therefore look how bad they are". How would you respond to this argument?

Guys, any idea when the verdict will be?

When will the verdict come? Anyone knows?

Not really. They are far more brutal. They have dropped 2000 paund bombs in residential areas. The USA even against ISIS never did more than 500 paunds in residential areas saying that more than that would be illegal. To add insult to injury's, the 2000 paund bomb was done in an area Israeli claimed "was safe for civilians to go to". NYC did a report on this. I sent it here I think. I would say they are relative to Russia in brutality. Russia bombing of Syria was similar in terms of tactics and Russia got a ton of shit for it. Why do you say Palestinian terror makes Israeli dehumanize them? Why not say, Israeli illegal expansion of settlements and their brutal tactics of warfare cause Palestinians to hate them so much, they resort to all sorts of terrorist attacks. The sword cuts both ways. Illegally settling in territories in West Bank seems pretty provocation to me. Benjamin showing a map of Greater Israel in International meetings where you could not find neither the Gaza nor West Bank in it seems also provocation to me. Bombing Hamas people in Lebanon is also technically provocation and illegal. I think the guy deserved to be bombed but it is a breach of sovereignty. I am curious how Israel would react if Turkey for example bombed some Guleyn terrorists in Tel Aviv and killed 4 Israeli innocent civilians while doing so.

To be honest, Israel to me seems a mix between blue and orange with an extremely toxic blue government and army. Little Green in it since they do allow LGBT and stuff but not much. I heard they are also somewhat racist towards darker skin Jews (like the Ethiopian sterilizing thingy) and Palestinian Arabs. The settlers are definetly blue religious' fanatics since they use their holy books to justify devilry, classic stuff. Just because a country is above red does not mean they are not capable of genocide, ethnic cleansing and horrible war crimes. Ethnic cleansing, which Israel is defiantly doing (I literally sent sources of what their ministers want) is a blue activity. Bombing of civilians can happen both in Blue and Orange. I am still unsure whether there is genocide happening in Gaza right now, but definately genocidal actions have been happening like collective punishment. Red is characterized by "barbaric" type of violence. For example cutting heads, burning people alive etc. I have not seen many reports from the IDF doing such stuff. It is usually either shooting people or bombing them. Red would be Mongolian hordes or Japan in Asia (Rape of Nanking etc). Blue would be Nazi Germany and to some extent the USSR. However I feel like Israel has a deep rooted blue component since its foundation. Being accused of stealing land by all its neighboors and fighting wars for decades while being called a theft has caused them as a society to fundamentally see Palestinians as lesser. Otherwise the guilt would be too big and they would crumble as a country. This view of Palestinians as "uncivilized beasts" is how blue sees red (leo made a video about this). If Israel was truly green, it would feel sorry for Palestinians, see them as victims. That is how Green sees Red. As victims, sometimes a bit too naively. This is how I see them (I consider myself mostly Green with some orange) and that causes me to side with them hardcore on this war. Although I would not put all Palestinians as red. I think Hamas is definately a hardcore toxic Red and maybe some people in Gaza that support Hamas fully are red but I think most of them have a lot of blue in them. Especially the ones in the West Bank I would put mostly blue. We have a clash of two blue societies and that causes so much hatred. Blue against blue is the worst combination when it comes to solving conflicts. Two mules. @Nivsch Would like also your output on this text since I wrote a lot.

There is 1 thing that disturbs me. If Israeli people support the murder of Palestinian civilians in Gaza because "they attacked and killed us", then by that same logic, it is acceptable for people in Gaza to support Hamas murder of Israeli civilians because "they took our land, kicked us out and killed us". Fundamentally Israelis, many of them see that people in Gaza support Hamas and therefore in their mind it is ok for their civilians to be killed. But the same logic can also be applied to Palestinians. Since most Israelis support Zionism and their government under Benjamin, is it acceptable for them for civilians to be killed too? So where does this end?

Ben Gvir: War an opportunity to encourage migration from Gaza | The Times of Israel Israeli Politician Wants Gaza Bombed Like Dresden in WWII - The New American- The guy with glasses, sent a video here where he was recorded in tv saying it. Who is Ayelet Shaked, Israel’s new justice minister? | The Times of Israel Some of Israeli politicans. Now tell me what should I make of this? I have never heard people in the West use this kind of language ever. Maybe Israel has some green people but majority are not. Otherwise these statements would not fly. Green people would never allow such politicans to be elected and to say such stuff. They loose their shit about way way softer statements. This is overkill for them. When I see 24.000 Palestinians, mostly childreen and women dead, then i see such statements from Israeli officials. You expect me to like them?