Breakingthewall

I didn't say that that repeats the cycles, I said that every manifestation is cyclical. Then the entire cosmos must be cyclical too. Then, when the infinite manifestation reach the unity, the cosmic cycle would end, as any other cycle. Then, there are not infinite holons in each holon. There are infinite holons in horizontal level, maybe, but maybe even in that level are finite, because infinity could be infinite just in the sense of an eternal cycle, not necessarily in it's extent.

Who's reading is me, the reality, and who wrote is you, the reality. Two dimensions of the reality between infinite dimensions looking each other. That's how reality works in a horizontal level, it's in vertical level where it's difficult to accept the absence of limitations. Even Buddhism speaks of the end of the wheel of reincarnations, which would inevitably restart. Everything seems to be cyclical, this is the infinite way of organizing itself without being an impossible aberration. cycle implies limits. Infinity is still infinite, but limited vertically between zero and unity. The infinite cosmos originates absolutely fragmented and reaches complete unity, ending its cosmic cycle and beginning again.

Maybe mathematics proves it, but can you understand it really? For example, Leo says that infinity implies that you will live all possible lives. this is precisely finite. Infinity implies that you will never, in infinite eternity, live all possible lives. This does not fit into any human mind except as a conceptual idea.

You can say in positive that it's the absolute total that exists, and that I am that. In negative, that it's absence of limits. Infinity means that never ends, then, even in the eternity of existence never all possibilities will be realized. This is not understandable by the mind, this is what I meant when I said that understanding is ultimately illusory.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Perhaps if you divide an elemental particle enough you will reach an end point, a basic energy patterns beyond which there is nothing. the same upwards. there may be an infinite extent of multiverses in a linear dimension, but a limit on their overlap. Beyond unity there is nothing, beyond zero there is nothing. Infinity divisions between both.

Yeah, your heart is the heart of the infinity and is the heaven because it's that we could call infinite love. The totality that is. A lot of people reached that realization, that is traditional enlightenment, nothing so rare. You just have to open yourself, remove the barriers.

I meant the understanding of the cosmos, the structure of the infinite manifestation, but maybe it's possible in some extent.

Cut your finger, and we will see how infinite is it.

I didn't say that for sure , just an hypothesis. The idea of infinite holons seems impossible to me vertically, possible horizontally. That is, infinite cyclic dimensions that restart infinitely, but there are two vertical limits: total disintegration and total unity.

I'd say that there is only one real awakening, open the current experience and realizing the absolute infinity, the reality looking itself in the face. The absolute light of existence, the open heart of the unlimited. Then you can try a lot to perceive what the hell is happening and what is going to happen next. I guess that it's possible see it very deep, but one thing is essential to me: if I lost the perception of what I am, I get lost in the mind, so it's better don't try to understand unless you are really open to the absolute, and that doesn't happen continuously, you have to do first one moment, then you lose it, then again, etc, until you intuit it more and more time. It's a delicate issue, the mind creates lot of blockages .

The more you go to meditation through sex, the less effect sex will have. Meditation will grow from it, and due to growing meditation, a new door will open and sex will wither away. It will not be a sublimation. It will be something like dry leaves falling from a tree. The tree never even knows that the leaves are falling. In the same way, you will never even know that the mechanical urge for sex is leaving. Create meditation from sex; make sex an object of meditation. Treat it like a temple and you will transcend it and be transformed. Then the sex will not be there, but there will be no repression, no sublimation. Sex will simply become irrelevant, insignificant. You have grown beyond him. Now it doesn't make sense to you anymore. Osho. I don't think that Osho had a lot of sex, he didn't seem someone focused in the physical expression

Reality in fact is immutable perfection, that's the difficult point to realize. The shape seems an effect that happens due the absence of limits, but under it always is the absolute. The spiritual work must start into realizing the absolute, the enlightenment that Waterriver is talking about. First one moment with psychedelic, then more, then intuit it under the surface, and I guess that in some cases be open to it totally, lets see. Then the second part: understanding the form, the experience, the cosmos. I'd say that nobody in the earth do or have done that.

There are many reports of psychonauts or meditators who access different dimensions of reality. It is not something so strange, openings of interdimensional portals. not only alien but another reality with different laws, unimaginable and unthinkable from the human mind. I suppose that if you acquire a high level of detachment and take 500 ug of LSD, something like this is perfectly possible. With 100 ug and two puffs of weed I enter a state that has nothing human about it. Reality is a kind of unlimited hole that changes shape and color, there is no consciousness of an observer, no mental structures, just reality flowing without any meaning, without the limitation of the self or interpretation. For me it is something simply pleasant and a good meditative exercise, this reality or that one is indifferent, both are me. I suppose an alien dimension would be the same, just in more detail. The important thing is to perceive yourself completely, without limit.

It that really so? If so, it would also be infinite downwards. is this possible? then an ant and a human would be at the same level of complexity: infinite. but it doesn't seem like that. Assuming that reality continues to develop infinitely is an assumption, since infinity implies that the end has not been reached and will never be reached. So, perhaps the cosmos is in some way limited in its vertical extension, since there is a base, atoms, strings, whatever, of maximum simplicity and division, and perhaps there is an upper limit where everything is unified and disintegrated again into elementary particles to start a new cycle again, but within a vertical limit. not turtles upon turtles infinitely, but infinite cycles of creation but with two limits, total disintegration and total unity.

Then don't argue and show your understanding

Enlightenment is what is beyond the form, but then the form is still here. I agree that focusing on form and understanding is a mistake due to the very fact of its infinity. You cannot grasp the infinite, only open yourself to it, and that is enlightenment, the opening to the totality. That's the business and the rest are small things. but still, the form exists and it is impossible not to try to understand its dynamics, even knowing that ultimately it is impossible, because there is not end, infinite dimensions. The mind must surrender itself to that fact. But as a, let's say, hobby, it's interesting. Well, I'd say that the only possibile comprehension of infinity is that it's infinite and can't be comprehended. Understanding is an illusion. Sad but true.

Italians the lovers? Sure the swiss are better. Anyway, Why don't you see the point in Leo's alien awakening? Yes, ok, the essential thing is to realize your true infinite nature, but once that is done, the wheel keeps turning. Better an interdimensional hyperintelligent alien than a schizophrenic in the Congo, or not?

You mean the essence of the reality, it's true nature, but look a fact: the reality is limitless, then it's always in movement, that means that there is always a shape, an illusion if you want. Then , the shape can not to be here neither. Is for you, as a shape in movement, the same a shape than another?

Yes, I know that perfectly, and I'm aware of that right now, and if I meditate 15 minutes, more deeply, and yet I don't like to live in the garbage being bitten by rats and insects, I prefer to have a business, money, good friends, girls around me, have air conditioning and not sleep at 40 degrees and not be tortured by the gestapo.

Real or illusion is a meaningless distinction. When you suffer for something, that suffering is also an illusion and yet it happens. If reality wanted you to be indifferent to the rape of your 12-year-old daughters, you would be. If he wants you to suffer, it is for a purpose. anything is real as soon as it happens. I may be fully aware that the form is transitory, but at the same time I know that the wheel of karma demands movement in one direction, and my push is in that direction, since my desire, the desire for reality, is the ascension. The Taoist master in your story had the ability to relativize his suffering by comparing it to the infinite being, but surely in specific moments he would suffer and that suffering would drive his movement, because that is the nature of reality. Otherwise it would be immobile Btw, that monk was fighting actively in a war, he wasn't in a cave meditating. Maybe he wanted some revenge

"A thought is just a thought, and yet it is a thought". --A thought

Human life is a creation of the reality, same than everything else. I'm aware of that right now without psychedelic or anything. This is an structure built over many structures, like a fractal with a concrete shape or vibration. It's so real as any shape could be. You could say that shape are illusion, that only the formless is real, but what with that? Shape still exist. I'm aware of the substance, the formless being, but that doesn't mean that the shape will dissapear.

Jesus Christ was just a being, the reality manifested, same than anything else. Why he's so special for you? Instead of emphasizing the fact of being enlightened, or being this or that, I think it is better to express your vision of reality, what you are beyond labels, and perhaps it will resonate with someone or many.

If the illusion is infinite, it is not an illusion, it is reality. If the illusion is infinite, you are not trapped in it, you are it. It never began and it never ends therefore, you are not dreaming, you are reality and reality is the infinite cosmos flowing over itself in its infinite facets and dimensions. Beyond the form we are all the same being, but there is no being without form, since the fact of being implies the creation of the form, so things seem to be more complicated than an agent performing an action with a result.

And it could not be the case that they would say: I know that I am the infinite being but I suffer since my 12-year-old daughters have been kidnapped by ISIS and are being raped 60 times a day. Suffering being part of reality, I'm eating my share.