Breakingthewall

I saw God, he was a light of total openness, transparent, limitless, total. It was its face He was also a source from which life emerged, and life was a divine nectar that was total joy, without blemish, without lack, absolutely full. It was its heart He was also a billowing flame emerging from the bottomless depths, dancing with itself in an intricate dance, joyful, sensual. It was its character He was also an infinite unfolding of form, without process, instantaneous, limitless, total. It was its form He was also a flow that flowed ceaselessly, and that flow was called intelligence and will, and they were direct; they didn't create the movement of the flow, they were the movement of the flow.

If someone kidnaps your 4-year-old children to sexually exploit them, would you laugh too, because it's innocent pristine perfection? Denying the reality doesn't work, but it's your choice. Reality is what it is, defining it is something that happens in the reality, then can't encompass the reality. "Illusion" is an idea that happens in the actual flow of reality, it can't define the flow, if you don't see this, you can't break the limited perspective

Most of the spirituality It is based on the denial of human nature. The mind is seen as a prison, desire as suffering, and the ego as the great enemy. This view, even when disguised as non-duality, is rooted in a radical dualism: the real versus the illusory, the pure versus the corrupt, the divine versus the human. The result is a deeply unnatural spirituality. The human being is asked to renounce himself, to nullify himself, to stop being what he is . to cut off all vital direction, every impulse, every expression. At its core, this view conveys the idea that reality has made a mistake , the human being, and that this mistake must be corrected through effort, discipline, and denial. The basis of spirituality usually is the elimination of the ego. Seems that being human is wrong, then we should point to be a plant, that "just be". This is achieved erasing the "falsehood", that is the ego mind. Have the birds ego? Aren't they perfect? Then, why aren't you a bird. Then, we find people trying to be a egoless bird with the giant effort of their ego to stop being humans. They will say: I'm enlightened, now there is not suffering. Well, no, enlightenment happened, and there is nobody here, because who was here was an illusion. It's difficult to be more controller. this vision is false. There is no mistake in human nature, as it's an expression of the reality. The human structure is not to be eliminated, but understood and opened. What the human being needs is not to erase himself, but to open fully to what is. To understand that his form, with all its nuances, is part of the infinite flow. The ego does not need to be killed , it needs to be seen. The mind does not need to be crushed, it need to be open. Desire doesn't need to be erased, must to be aligned. True openness is not about becoming a plant. It is about living without a mask, from within the structure we are, but open to what has no bottom. It means integrating complexity, desire, conflict, and the creative power that is the human being, and allowing it all to dissolve into something vaster, be one with the flow. Or maybe do you think that reality made a mistake and YOU have to solve it?

You need definitions in the limited perspective, but if you want to place yourself in the unlimited perspective, definitions are limits. If there is any definition, you are in the limited perspective. The ontology that's needed to make possible locating yourself in the unlimited perspective is a open ontology that makes your structure transparent. The opposition between real and illusion is not open, is limited, closed

Shortcuts doesn't work, forgiveness is nothing if you don't understand how you are closing. The path is not simple, success is not guaranteed

Maybe it's you who should see the reality of the self. If the phone rings now and it's the doctor telling you you have brain cancer, when the conversation is over, does it smell like something? Can you touch it? And what if he tells you your children died in an accident? Does that smell like something? And what if you go out onto the street and there's a hungry, 300-kg tiger walking toward you? That does smell like something. What's the difference with cancer? Is the tiger real, but cancer isn't? Why? If you don't understand that the self is an energetic structure that is printed in your cells (like a metaphor), you would do anti human spirituality. The thing is much deeper than it seems . But you could try, at the end you will realize, you will see. If you're interested, there's a documentary about psychedelic therapy for veterans of the Iraq War. Perhaps it will help you understand what the self is.

I'm nothing of those, if you define something it's just a definition that you are doing, and this is a limit. If you want to be limitless, you should forget any definition because a definition is something that limits the reality. If the reality is unlimited, it's undefinable by definition What you can do is perceive the tree, be open to it's reality, be one with it, but you can't say that it's an illusion because it's a separation and a limit that you are creating in your mind, a barrier

An example of anti human spirituality: your narcissistic parents needed to climb on top of you for validation. This creates a permanent structural vibration of lack, inadequacy, and fear in you, but you don't understand where it comes from. Other people instinctively, without being truly aware of it, perceive this, and since their lacking structure needs to climb on top of another to elevate themselves, they seek your friendship. You marry someone like this, have children, and you also have several friends who operate at that vibration. They all seem to care about you a lot, worry about you, and all that. But underneath, there's a strange vibration you don't understand. You don't even remotely understand the relational dynamics you're immersed in; you just know that you're unhappy. Then one day you hear a nonduality master say that you're creating your unhappiness with your thoughts. Your self is merely an illusion sustained by those thoughts. So, you can decide to replace those thoughts with others, and the suffering will disappear. What's more, you can stop the thoughts, and then enlightenment, which was already the case, will manifest. You, who are not especially insightful (not you, another random person 😅), believe this completely since it seems obvious, and you spend the rest of your life trying to change the surface of the lake without perceiving the lake.

You could say that everything is the same nature and interconnected, but If there is such a thing as a tree, to say it's an appearance is to deny its character as a tree. It's something else, an empty hologram. Why is it an empty hologram? Because it seems that to me?

then the body is an illusion. Why an illusion? Because it can die? So illusion is what can die?

So if the doctor calls me now and tells me I have brain cancer, is it an illusion?

I don't understand that of the illusory self. Why is it illusory? When I read a dialogue like this, it seems to me like two psychotics trying to be more psychotic. What does illusory mean? Is a tree illusory? What isn't illusory? The word illusory is psychotic.

Then why you can't fly? Or at least levitate things as a jedi. Just small things, when you are in god mode

It's inevitable to think this way, and if any of us are told we have a neurological disease or that we're going to be sold as slaves in Rome, we will suffer enormously. But the point is that this is the flow of reality. Enlightenment isn't knowing that there's another, better reality, but rather being one with the substance of this reality, which is the reality. The content can be crap from the conditioned perspective, and in fact, it almost always is. But it's about being able to step out of that perspective and place yourself in the substance right now, without bias toward what appears. Bias completely removes you from the open perspective. It's totally inevitable, and saying otherwise is naive. But if you manage to place yourself at certain moments in a perspective free of bias, little by little you align yourself with the flow. It's not easy work at all; in fact, it's extremely difficult. But we are evolving humans; nothing is impossible

No, it's a big difference. When you are a child, you flow freely because your structure is not formed. The substance of reality is free within you. You live, and by living, you know everything: you are. But reality has paths, structures, forms, and you will inevitably create a framework that will contain the vital flow. To contain it, there are energetic and emotional barriers that are innate and impossible to ignore. So, once you are trapped in your prison, as we all are, you can no longer return to the baby state by erasing the self, because the self is there, more solid than a rock. You have to take a step beyond the baby; you have to open yourself to the total. The baby is not open to the total; it flows freely, but at no point does the bottomless that lives open up within it. However, you, as an adult, have to take that step because otherwise your structure will remain exactly as solid, no matter how much you adopt the ideal of no self and try to minimize the self. You can't because you, the one who attempts that, is precisely the self.

It's not the absolute truth because it's an idea, and as such, it is relative. The idea that consciousness can extend eternally is opposed to the idea that it has an end. It is a mental structure that you are creating now. Absolute truth is not an idea; it is the total opening to what you are. It is more of an action than an idea. You are closed in your mind. At a given moment, you fully open your framework, your energetic configuration that defines you, and the whole manifests. Your ultimate nature, the unlimited openness that is the source of flow, and you recognize yourself as the total. Then you return to your structured reality and from there, you think that consciousness will most likely be eternal and all that.

I think that is possible, but extremely difficult. If you place yourself in a perspective in which you are the flow of existence, reality is peace, beauty and glory, but of course, then you find out that your brother has raped your daughter and automatically you are in the human perspective and you cannot get out of it because it is extremely magnetic. I think that if you perceive yourself unlimited you can enjoy life without attachment. Unlimited doesn't mean that you perceive yourself as God, but rather as the incessant becoming, and beyond that, as the ultimate nature of that becoming. But I don't know to what extent it's possible to maintain that perspective when serious problems arise. What is certain is that, as you've said, if you build a life based on attachments, suffering is guaranteed. The human structure will always exist, it is necessary, but I would say that the idea is for it to be a useful structure that allows the greatest possible openness to the substance, the freest possible flow. A closed structure is the one that needs to assert itself, since it takes center stage. You are more the structure than the flow, and in this way you become attached, bitter, full of fear and suffering

Then Einstein has his own experience? Or he hasn't? What solipsism means? If say that means that he hasn't

Sure, I mean the people who have realized that they are in a trap and the anesthesia is going to lead them to hell. So those people read something about enlightenment, and something resonates deeply, an instinct that says: that's it. That's where you should focus. The problem is that then you start reading and getting informed, and well, it's all very mysterious and mystical and neo-Advaita, and since you don't know exactly what the point is, you end up confused, thinking that reality isn't real and that what's real is emptiness, and that if you stop thinking, all your problems will disappear because you're creating them with thought

Absolute truth is what you are. It's the unlimited, and when you are one with the limitlessness you realize that you always have been that, but "knowing" that you are unlimited is not being unlimited, because there are limits that exists by default in human psyche and others that we build . The only way is the dissolution of those barriers and be without barriers. It's subtle because a barrier could be the fact of having an experience. Who is having what? Limits.

I understand your point , But the way I see it, when your psychological structure is anxiety, depression, and suffering, that's when you find the real motivation to break through the barriers, since there's no solution to your suffering. If there were, you'd apply that solution and remain there. So, what we're trying to do is formulate a spirituality that makes it possible for those who aren't suffering to suicidal levels to find the path to openness. What I see is that the existing formulations aren't correct; they fail on multiple points. If we take Sadhguru as an example, he doesn't formulate an ontology to promote openess , but rather says that with the yogic practices he proposes, this can happen. I can't say otherwise because I don't know. but I do believe that, for example, Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta don't point directly toward openness; at the end of their path, there's a wall. Their nonduality is dual. Buddhism proposes emptiness as the ultimate reality, and emptiness is just a form. Advaita tells you that perceived reality is illusory, unreal. This is the most toxic of all, since the unreality of what is perceived implies a higher, real reality. If you internalize this ontology, you're trapped. It's not innocuous, another path that could resonate with you, etc. It's toxic, a closure.

Absolute truth is being unlimited and total. But it's not something you "know" or "perceive," since perceiving, experiencing, and knowing implies a center, a subject, and an object. You have to open yourself up and be it completely.

Your tone is very aggressive. Do you have self-esteem issues? Perhaps you should try real spirituality. But you have to look in the mirror without a mask. Could you?

@Xonas Pitfall the lagnans point is interesting, but there is another possibility, the only possible if you contemplate it: In the absence of limits, any movement will unleash a wave of infinite cause and effect. Therefore, any event, change, or relationship will have infinite causality. You can unfold the events that led to it without end, which means you could claim that the cause of that movement is all of infinite reality. You could say that God is creating it, so to speak. But this doesn't mean that this infinite cause will produce a predetermined effect, since the range of possibilities and subsequent effects is unlimited and therefore indeterminate. The openness to any existing reality is absolute, and therefore it is absolutely impossible to foresee where its future will lead. An infinitesimal change results in an infinite deviation. This is the essence of reality: openness or the absence of limits in all directions. You can see this in Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle: it’s impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a quantum particle at the same time. This is not due to a lack of measurement tools; it is an intrinsic property of reality. The uncertainty principle shows that there is no absolute fixity of states. You cannot simultaneously know the position and momentum of a particle because they are not absolutely defined at the same time. This means that reality is not completely determined at any point: there is always openness, there is always possibility. This implies that reality is neither closed nor fixed. There is no "ultimate framework" from which you can completely reduce reality to deterministic relations. That is, reality has no absolute epistemic limit. And this openness is not only of knowledge, but ontological: reality itself is structured as open possibility.

@zazen Spirituality says: Form is maya, formlessness is real. Therefore, thought and emotions must cease, and so form ceases, and only reality remains. The reality is that there is always form, with or without thought. Formlessness does not exist, since existence is relative change or form. So what is achieved by seeking silence is exchanging a noisy form for a silent one, which is considered formless. That is, one facet of form is nullified in favor of another, when both are essentially the same. Thus, you remain lost in form, closed to the total by denying a facetz