jimwell

I have seen Leo and people in this forum often disapprove of Trump and Stage Red. I can see why. But I think you Stage Green and a few Stage Blue people have overlooked the good side. Trump and Duterte shake the status quo, not Biden. Bernie and Stage Green can, but very slowly (can take hundreds or thousands of years on a global scale). If the status quo is unacceptable, it's worth shaking it up and taking risks. Duterte proclaimed the Pope, bishops, priests as useless and hypocritical. He told the Filipinos (over 80 % Catholic Christians) bishops and priests prey on altar boys if they are homosexuals and prey on nuns if they are heterosexuals. That sounds very funny but is also true (at least in many cases). But it's very offensive to very Stage Blue Catholic Christian Filipinos. But the inital shock brought good changes. Now I see more Filipinos questioning their Catholic faith and some even renouncing it, having an existential crisis as a result. What Duterte did is equivalent to Biden saying Fortune 500 corporations and Wall Street people are extremely selfish and seek profit at all cost. They have unfairly acquired much wealth that there's a need for regulations and wealth redistribution. It is also equivalent to Shinzo Abe (Japan's prime minister) saying that Naruhito (the Japanese emperor) has no real authority but the authority given to him by the Japanese people. And he needs to stop receiving "emperor" taxes. This is completely unthinkable. Shinzo Abe would rather commit seppuku than tell the truth. But that's exactly what Duterte did and continues to do and what Trump is capable of. Humans significantly and rapidly change only in a serious crisis. That's what the coronavirus pandemic has proven. Suddenly, normal people have OCD. They wash their hands and wear masks more than usual. People work at home and go out only when needed. Humans, buildings, and places become automatically cleaner. Landlords lower rent to minimize business profit loss. Senseless sports events and gatherings are cancelled. School terms are shortened. Airlines cancel flights to "highly infected" cities and offer refunds. Governments inject emergency funds to support small businesses and employees. The cooperation as a way to cope is amazing. Now, imagine what World War 3 can do. It will be a great tragedy but I am very open to the possibility that something very beautiful and miraculous can emerge. Trump and Duterte are the type of people who start great wars. That's a few examples of how Stage Red forces Stage Blue and Orange to evolve to Stage Green on a global scale (quickly, in a few years or decades).

@Serotoninluv I have thrown pearls in front of pigs. Don't use only Green ways in every situation, especially when dealing with extremely selfish demons who are below Green. Embrace and utilize Red. It is very powerful and has a place in societal evolution.

I understand your perspective. That is a traditional "righteous" approach. And that's ok. I am just revealing something unconventional, overlooked, and ignored. Considering the advancement humans have made in science and technology, we now have the resources (buildings, trains, factories, computers, internet, food production, globalization, etc) to cope up with a great tragedy and rapidly evolve ourselves. You have forgotten or underestimated the stupidity and extreme selfishness of humans. And that's the exact reason why they reject truth and not evolve. What forces them to change and evolve is to present a threat to their survival. Because it will be in their best self-interest to do so, otherwise they die. We clearly see this rapid, significant change and evolution now with the coronavirus pandemic. It took only a few months what would have been decades long change and evolution. The video below clearly demonstrates one of the miraculous changes. The province and everybody living there now receives financial subsidy and support from the South Korean government. It's too good to be true. It can exist only as a dream for Bernie, Yang, and you. This is the power of Stage Red. It might be "unethical". But it is certainly very effective and respectable. In the short and long run, it can produce greater love and beauty.

@Futarino I'm sorry for my late reply. What is "consciousness?" It is about your mindset or worldview (how you see yourself, things, and society), your values (things which are important to you), and your behavior. Please read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs and this https://www.actualized.org/insights/spiral-dynamics-essence Why is DUterte Stage Red? Because he violates rules and conventions to satisfy himself. Murdering criminals and other politicians for his benefit or satisfaction is Stage Red. It is bad but is also good. It depends on the situation. Watch Leo's Spiral Dynamics videos. Don't hide your posts. It's good to honestly ask questions.

That's funny.

@universe You don't understand my posts enough. And you don't know what you are talking about. The only sensible things you wrote are your last 2 sentences.

@Emerald @Serotoninluv@Apparition of Jack Look at the global situation. The developed countries (though they are not actually developed) have extreme wealth inequality, corruption, homelessness, health care (people die of illnesses because they can't afford it), 8-5 low salary jobs, depression, mass murder and self-murder (suicide) suffering or problems. The developing countries (though every country is actually developing), also have those problems (but to a more serious level) except mass murder, but with additional mass starvation and extra judicial murder. What else can be worse than this? Yes, Bernie can shake up the status quo from "above" but it will be certainly very slow, especially on a global scale. AS mentioned in one of my posts, it can take hundreds or thousands of years because societal evolution depends on the "consciousness" of the majority. Are you willing you to be that little girl whose mother recently died because she was forcefully sent home by the hospital because she couldn't afford the hospital bills anymore? Are you willing to be that wage slave who is living paycheck to paycheck but seriously thinking of murdering herself because she has anxiety and depression but can't receive therapy because of she is just one paycheck away from homelessness? Think, be sensitive, and embody their suffering. There are millions of these little girls and wage slaves around the world. Are you saying we should wait for hundreds of years for a significant global change to happen and relieve them of their suffering? The global situation is already and has been for many decades very ugly and unacceptable. It is a very slow, painful death. The world needs to take a gamble. It's sensible to try Trump and Stage Red because immediate change is needed.

No. That's wrong. Stage Red is also good. Every stage is good. It depends on how healthy and controlled it is. The point of Spiral Dynamics is not to move to Turquoise and drop the previous stages. The point is to move to Turquoise while embracing and maintaining healthy characteristics of the lower stages. That's what makes you a more balanced, complete human. Every stage has an important function.

@Serotoninluv It's amazing you two have the same question. But to ask me this question is ridiculous. Why? Because I don't need a crisis to change for the better. I change when I see I need to, for love of truth and beauty. You should direct the question to the majority instead. And maybe, also direct that question to yourselves.

@Milos Uzelac No, you didn't bother me. I'm happy you expressed your feelings and you understand my ideas and feelings. But you not using periods is what bothers me. It's difficult to understand. Please use sentences in expressing your ideas next time.

@Apparition of Jack That's an absurd projection. So you would rather die than evolve? Go ahead. I'd rather evolve.

@Serotoninluv You have made some good points. But I have already implied a major tragedy can spark a change also for the worse. I have already clearly mentioned the global situation is very ugly and unacceptable it's worth taking a gamble. So I choose Trump. The ideal situation would be for societies around the world to grow or evolve to Stage Green in a few years or decades. But that's not reality, unfortunately. Societies around the world will eventually evolve to Stage Green but in hundreds or thousands of years. Trump and Stage Red is the wild card.

@Serotoninluv You don't understand. I didn't mean to say a stage red country will jump to stage green because of a stage red crisis. I meant a crisis sparks change. And it can be for the better. A crisis in a stage red country can trigger a change to stage blue. A crisis in Orange can trigger a change to Green. Just introduce a serious crisis, to spark change. The coronavirus is not a stage red crisis nor a stage orange crisis. But it triggered significant change to blue-orange societies like South Korea and Japan. Their governments acquired some Stage green characteristics to cope up. If the coronavirus pandemic gets very serious, countries around the world will unite to fight it. Their cooperation as a way to cope is what triggers changes from Red to Blue, Orange to Green, etc. If Trump creates a very serious crisis in the US, it can spark a change from Orange to Green. If Duterte creates a a very serious crisis in the Philippines, it can trigger a change from Blue-Orange to Orange-Green. The Philippines also has Orange characteristics because it is heavily influenced by the US. Even if it doesn't reach a level higher in the Spiral, a crisis will still trigger good changes. Because humans and societies will be forced to get better to survive. Enough discussion. I have expressed what I want to say. Just read my thread again.

@Serotoninluv But everything is situational. What is important now is immediate change, not change from "below' or "above". Look at the global situation. The developed countries (though they are not actually developed) have extreme wealth inequality, homelessness, health care (people die of illnesses because they can't afford it), 8-5 low salary jobs, depression, mass murder and self-murder (suicide) suffering or problems. The developing countries (though every country is actually developing), also have those problems except mass murder, but with additional mass starvation and extra judicial murder. What else can be worse than this? Yes, Bernie can shake up the status quo from "above" but it will be certainly very slow, especially on a global scale. AS mentioned in my most recent thread, it can take hundreds or thousands of years because societal evolution depends on the "consciousness" of the majority. The global situation is very ugly and unacceptable. It is a very slow, painful death. The world needs to take a gamble. It's sensible to try Trump and Stage Red because immediate change is needed.

@Futarino Trump and Duterte are similar in a sense, they are Stage Red.

@Serotoninluv If I were American and it's either Biden or Trump, I would vote for Trump. It's because of what I just posted. Everything, including Spiral Dynamics is situational or multidimensional, not linear.

@LfcCharlie4 Have you ever experienced this "complete" teaching? I clearly understand it the same way I conceptually understand Leo's teachings. But I don't take them as truth, let alone preach them. Because I don't see them and have never experienced them.

Elliot Rodger wrote "I, Elliot Rodger am a God." in his manifesto right before he murdered humans including himself in Isla Vista in 2014. He didn't do any inner work. He simply had NPD and had trouble with women. So being an incel with NPD is the real shortcut to awakening and beats psychedelics?

LeoMeans: Self == Other && Leo == you && God == you What methods have you used to generate your insights? Is getting high on psychedelics one of them? If so, I wonder why your insights are different from Leo's.

I love it.

@kieranperez You posted a very long story without telling the reasons why you are leaving the forum. Isn't telling the reasons for leaving the point of posting? Moving to India as the reason sounds senseless.

It is a good example of the limits of thinking and rationality. About the death of his wife, he probably contemplated and took action to resolve his pain. He did his best. Leo clearly says in his most current video psychedelics interferes with the "knobs" of reality. If that's true, psychedelics was what the 97-year-old philosopher needed.

Going all the the way to find Truth seems not worth it. It's very painful, confusing, and risky. But there's really nothing to lose. Death guarantees you have nothing else to lose. Life is more of a tragedy than beauty. And to die without knowing yourself, your life, and reality is another tragedy. There's much to learn from Herbert Fingarette. What a short, but beautiful documentary.

But you said you could see how Jesus manifested fish and bread just by imagining them into existence.

Yes. I see it.