Petals

I've found something in Franklin Merrell-Wolff's 'Experience and Philosophy'. It is pretty much congruent with Gurdjieff and I find it very well written. But he also puts it into the context of Liberation. FMW is not connected with the 'Work' in any way. I recommend reading it. This is the first part: Now, we come to a point of the highest practical importance. If a man, while embodied, has not learned to integrate consciously the embodied with the disembodied levels of percipience, then so far as the personal consciousness is concerned, death involves entering a state like dreamless sleep. In the higher sense, it is not an unconscious state, but it is unconscious for the personal man, except that he may experience a sort of dreaming consciousness apparently constructed along the formal lines of his embodied experience. Let the reader keep it well in mind that this is not a matter of an arbitrary or imaginative eschatology but, rather, of a necessity that must be clear from purely epistemological considerations. The point is simply this: If a conscious being has integrated self-consciousness in a given kind of complex mode, such as the 'five-sense' perceptive consciousness of man, and if it is familiar with no other mode of consciousness, then if it is suddenly severed from that mode and thrust into one utterly different, no matter how bright the Light of the latter may be, it will seem to this being as unconsciousness. After a time self-consciousness may awaken to function in the new mode, but there will be no basis for recognizing the new entity as being the same individual who experienced in terms of the former mode. This is a radical interruption of the continuity of self-consciousness, and, while in the Higher or Spritual sense, Consciousness per se has not ceased, yet the individual, as individual, has proved to be no more than a mortal being. Actually, nature guarantees man no more than this. But he may by his own self-induced effort and by aid of Awakened Men achieve continuity of self-consious or individualized consciousness. This is acquired or conditional immortality and constitutes an important part of the significance of Cosmic Consciousness. The crux of the whole problem in achieving individualized immortality is the learning to integrate while still embodied the outer and inner levels of percipience. This is, in fact, the mystic process symbolized by the squaring of the circle. The relationship between the square and the circle is incommensurable, and this means that 'circular' relationships or values are not comprehensible in 'square' terms. Embodied man is a square while the Inner Man is a circle. The mass of human beings shift from level to level through unconsciousness, and thus in these cases the one level is to the other like dreamless sleep. The two states are discrete instead of continuous, and, therefore, we are faced with a condition where we have, as it were, two distinct men instead of one self-conscious Being. The circle is birthless and deathless and consequently immortal, but the square is generated in time and in the course of time subject to dissolution. But by 'squaring' the circle, or more correctly by 'circularizing' the square, the latter kind of consciousness is taken up and blended with the immortal Consciousness of the circle. This gives to the individual consciousness immortality. It should be clear that the cross-transference in sleep or during the trance state is not enough. Man must win the power to be awake here and There at the same time. Once he has done this, even though the cross-correlation were achieved for but one moment in a given lifetime, he has mastered death and is immortal in the acquired sense. Now, when a man has succeeded in 'circularizing' the square, he has shifted his center of self-identity to the circle and thus has really died while remaining in the physical body. Consequently, while moving in the world he has become One who is not of the world. I will continue tomorrow.

@Zigzag Idiot thank you. I will take a look at the third series.

I've just read the last chapter (only that chapter) of 'Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson' called 'From the Author'. in it there is a lecture called 'Lecture Number One - The Variety, according to Law, of the Manifestations of Human Individuality' (last read in New York, January 1924). it was quite good, so I am wondering, are there more of these lectures? it seems to be not an oral lecture by Gurdjieff but sth that was written by him and then read out loud to the students.

Gurdjieff himself said that you should not believe him. you need to verify stuff for yourself. of course you first need to be openminded enough to take things on as a hypothesis and then test them. so what's 'constructive' or not is for you to decide. apart from that I think Gurdjieff is not about 'self-improvement'. I am not an expert, just (currently) interested in Gurdjieff. there is a thread in this sub forum about Gurdjieff.

@Leo Gura apropos books, do you think about updating the book list in the future? maybe one last time?

look at that! (or better - listen to that.) started 2 years ago and last update just yesterday. channel name 'invite the light'. Nicoll's commentaries as audio.

'heard from...' is how it begins. say the following until it sinks in: 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know...' that's all you have on that topic.

@Zigzag Idiot thank you.

@Chintan desai not wanting to be reborn is a typical Hindu thing. that's not a cult thing. be careful not to think that the truth is somewhere out there in cults and practices and the changing world. if it was, then it would not be worth much, would it? even if you get reborn ignorant, what could you do about it now? trust that what you do now matters and do your best, you have no other option anyway.

this seems to me to be a very good and important post. http://zenyogagurdjieff.blogspot.com/2013/07/will-and-reality-of-being.html

"The cause of this serious misconception was the disappearance from the common presence of your favorites of the possibility of the crystallization in them of those factors which actualize 'logical mentation' in three-brained beings. "And since they lack this 'logical mentation,' all of them, almost without exception, accept the statements of certain candidate hasnamusses affirming that they can obtain 'something' very beneficial for themselves through 'sport', and now believing these assertions with all their presence, and in the hope of obtaining this benefit, they give themselves up entirely to this sport. "None of these unfortunates know, or probably will ever realize, not only that this maleficent 'sport' of theirs brings them nothing beneficial but that, as I have just told you, owing to this sport alone, they shorten still further the duration of their existence, already sufficiently trifling without this." from 'Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson' (Gurdjieff) read that just yesterday, that's why I'm posting it. on the other hand, look at that slow motion of the first goal. I get goosebumps looking at it. 'poetry in motion' as somebody said.

G's voice if you go on youtube, you can read along in the video's description. it's called 'Mr Gurdjieff recorded christmas 1948'. I've seen that @Zigzag Idiot has already posted it. I'll just leave it here.

1. you are vulnerable. you can't talk that away. 2. from the blog: "If you are young and catch this virus, your chances of ending up in the emergency room is 1 in 5." I don't think that's what the statistic means. It means: of all the severe cases, 20% are aged 20-44. it doesn't mean of all 20-44 year olds having the virus, 20% are severe cases.

'The Path of Sri Ramana' by Sri Sadhu Om. go to Michael James' website 'happiness of being' and download it for free. it's probably the best work on self-enquiry (as taught by Ramana Maharshi) you will ever find. Sri Sadhu Om was Ramana's direct disciple.

@Globalcollective here is another perspective: http://maryshutan.com/ethical-considerations-of-spiritual-work-in-natural-disasters/

the 'finite player' wants to bring everything/all play to an end and so for him almost everything is in the way (including being forced to be a hermit). the 'infinite player' takes everything into the game.

I'm wondering whether anything in the relative domain could ever be 'explained'. one can of course describe how things work but a description is not an explanation. 'why is the sky blue?' - you could describe how it seemingly works using 'atmosphere' and 'light' and 'retina' but that does not explain why the sky is blue, does it? what would a satisfactory answer to @billiesimon 's question look like? I somehow can't think of one. so the best answer to every 'why?' is 'just because it is so' and all that is left for us is to describe and make the best out of how things work. is this wrong thinking on my part?

http://maryshutan.com/five-realizations-to-cut-through-the-spiritual-path/

@Keyhole in the beginning I was also a bit irritated when I read what she wrote about 'enlightenment' and other topics because I was used to the usual high-level non-dual stuff. but I like her nuanced approach and her calling one out for what one might term 'spiritual materialism'. but haven't read her books yet, only the blog.

thanks. short and concise statements are great because they can often create a depth that continuous text can't. I recommend 'The Nisargadatta Gita' by Pradeep Apte. it's available as a free download.

@Shaun 'Thinking and Destiny' by Harold Percival. interesting and weird book that I am reading at the moment. if you think about it, why would one assume that there is something like 'accident' or 'luck' or 'fate'? wouldn't it actually be plausible that there is an impartial law / laws governing everything just as the universe is governed by 'physical' laws? Percival contends that all events are the exteriorizations of thoughts by which the thoughts get 'balanced' if you learn from the events. overall, the aim is to free oneself from the grip of the body-mind, the senses and desire.

the fundamental question is, can he beat Trump? imagine him in a debate with Trump. given what I've seen of Buttigieg (I could be wrong) I get the sense that it is not going to end well.

@erik8lrl thanks. @Derek White knowing how is not the beginning but the end?

@mandyjw yes, thank you for reminding me of this. the transitoriness itself is not suffering, but resisting it and wanting permanence is. resistance is suffering. and above all the resistance to the shining forth of the Self. @Preetom that's kind. I'm trying my best.?

Ramana Maharshi as you probably all know always pointed out that happiness is your true nature. since 'you' are truly happy in deep sleep in which the world is not present, happiness must be intrinsic to what you are and can never come from the world. @mandyjw suffering is not a condition, rather, all conditions are suffering simply because they are conditioned and transitory. that's what @Preetom tried to say I guess.