Bill W

This is my first topic. I did a book review already but am not counting that really. This is the first time I've taken the plunge and worked up the courage to ask a question "in front of the class". I'm not expecting long answers from people. In the context of this ramble, how would you describe the possible benefits of nonduality philosophy to me Is it correct to call it a philosophy? I'm not looking for people to do my work for me. I'm not being lazy. I'm just stuck in my current level of understanding. I'm not sure if I should try and understand nonduality or just let that sleeping dog lie for now. I can't work out whether it's something I should have as a foundation (such as deciding if I buy into it or not), or whether it's something that I should consider later on. I really didn't want to ask this. I honestly have tried to read around and use the search function on here. I've read what Nahm has written (via his signature) but I do need to watch the video's in his link. However, from everything I've read online and listened to via YouTube I still can't ascertain what's the benefit to me of (a) understanding nonduality and then possibly (b) buying into it. I get like this with self-development. I can obsess a bit too much on things that might be small detail or not relevant to my needs. I fear if I don't try and understand something I am missing out somehow. Not sure if you need to know some basics about me, or whether it's irrelevant what my little plans and dreams are..... For the last few months I've been getting my feet wet with basic Buddhist teachings. I'm also finding parts of the Bible incredibly uplifting, and much more practical than I thought the Bible would be. I don't know what I think about God. I'm not sure who God is or how God works. I (think) I believe at the minimum there is some Higher Power relevant and active in my life. I feel like I am looked after and that I am supposed to follow a path. With the thoughts I am conscious of, my immediate and primary goal is to manage my general fear, insecurities, to be able to better handle uncertainty, to better manage resentments I hold against people, and to move away from my ego (as I understand my ego to be). To move away from animal instinct behaviour. I want to be cool, calm, and collected. Kind to others. Forget myself. Get outside my own head. My most cherished values at the moment seem to be around openmindedness and humility. If I can get these right I think other good stuff can manifest, such as compassion, forgiveness, gratitude and resilience. I have all these qualities to a degree, but I want more, and better still, I want these values to be better reflected in my behaviour.

I can kind of buy into numbers 6 and 10. Actually 10 is a good one. So at best I give this a usefulness rating of 20% But I respect your view. Your journey is different to mine.

I'm with Johnny Bravo on this one in terms of his seemingly pragmatic approach. I won't go so far as to say believing life is a dream is dangerous, because I don't know about that. I'm all for life being a dream if that's what you want to believe. If that helps you. I know if I ever call the Police, Paramedics or Fire Department I hope they don't start thinking life is a dream, well not until they have come to my rescue first at least. If I call 999 or 911 and they said "relax, life is but a dream", I'd be pretty pissed. I hope your not a Judge or a Lawyer.

Yep I'm trying not to run before I can walk as well.

Have you done mushrooms before? Are they what's included in the group called psychedelics? I don't know shit about that to be honest. I'm not criticising or preaching, but I don't see any of the advice here to include using these substances and three mod's have given an input. I don't know (maybe others can advise).... is it indicated to use these substances if you are in this mental black hole? Shaun has already informed us his mental state is not good and he has worries about what everything means etc. Could the mushrooms do any damage? I'm just putting it out there..... When someone says "I'm not in a good place" it rings alarm bells, especially in the context of the other posts Shaun has made. Or am I like a neurotic mother here? I have experience using substances but not these kind. EDIT: Okay, you said you will try them next month, that reassures me a bit that it's not an impulsive action!

It's a weird one, as I now am kind of inventing in my head "mind depression". I'm actually not taking the piss about your typo. It genuinely got me thinking!

Sorry to butt in but I've never heard the term "mind depression". Perhaps you just wrote that without it meaning anything specific. It just got me thinking about associating anxiety and depression with just the mind and not my whole being. Not sure if that makes any sense or that is what you meant as well.....

It sounds like you could do with some kind of mentor on here. I'm being serious. That's a horrific thought you are having. I was going to suggest laying off Leo's videos but that would be flippant of me and not addressing potential root causes of your anxieties. Do you have a history of catastrophising really badly or was it just triggered by these videos? I know anxiety well. But won't pretend to know your anxiety. I'm trying to answer this from a humane perspective rather than trying to sound like I should fit in with forum etiquette on these deep philosophical issues the video raises.

What about meditating whilst you are doing something? Washing up, in the bath as long as you don't risk drowning, out walking, cleaning the house, weight lifting, other cardio exercise.

Hi. I've not read the whole thread yet to be fair. Will do. My idea of addiction is to repeatedly and often with a sense of compulsion do something for a perceived reward despite current or likely negative health consequences as a result of the behaviour. Stopping the behaviour abruptly would bring discomfort. My definition of health is very broad. It could include financial loss, esteem loss, social loss etc. If there are no real problems or consequences with the behaviour is it an addiction? Thinking out aloud to myself really rather than nitpicking your definition or making out I disagree with you.

@winterknight Thank you. I will take a look.

Keep an open mind like we do in the same paragraph as you telling him he doesn't know what he is talking about but you and Joseph do. Hehe. I'm not attacking you. It just made me laugh that's all. Made me smile.

Hi, This might be a non-starter for you....... My question is; Should I knuckle down with one approach and type of teaching for now (just so I can start putting some real work in, and getting better habits?) or should I continue with 'information gathering phase' and 'research' for now? I'm not looking for you to name one teacher, or book, or system necessarily but feel free to. I know information gathering and research will be on-going process in a way to keep myself openminded and hungry, but I fear I will use this an excuse to not start the real work. In my mind, I feel I don't really care what Enlightenment is, or isn't. For me it's all relative. I want to be more enlightened than I am now. I know this might not fit with whatever the favoured enlightment 'model' is. I'm chasing improvement rather than perfection/bliss. Some context below. I get easily bogged down in reading as much as I can, and taking ideas from literature to practice in real life. However, I seem to be always in 'information gathering phase', convinced that the next book, or teaching will be "the one" and set me on my way. For the last few months I've been getting my feet wet with basic Buddhist teachings. I'm also finding parts of the Bible incredibly uplifting, and much more practical than I thought the Bible would be. I don't know what I think about God. I'm not sure who God is or how God works. I (think) I believe at the minimum there is some Higher Power relevant and active in my life. I feel like I am looked after and that I am supposed to follow a path. With the thoughts I am conscious of, my immediate and primary goal is to manage my general fear, insecurities, to be able to better handle uncertainty, to better management resentments I hold against people, and to move away from my ego (as I understand my ego to be). To move away from animal instinct behaviour. I want to be cool, calm, and collected. Kind to others. Forget myself. Get outside my own head. My most cherished values at the moment seem to be around openmindedness and humility. If I can get these right I think other good stuff can manifest, such as compassion, forgiveness, gratitude and resilience. I have all these qualities to a degree, but I want more, and better still, I want to reflect these more in my behaviour.

How do we determine if it's in good faith with honest intent when receiving criticism? I guess some criticism could be given not in good faith and with a manipulative intent. It could still be a valid criticism (I.e. true and relevant). Some criticism could be given in good faith with an honest intent and be absolute bullshit or nonsense. Don Miguel Ruiz has a saying about speech that perhaps I can use with specific reference to giving and receiving criticism. He says your speech to another (which of course also includes your written dialogue) should be (a) true (b) useful and (c) timely. I take timely to mean relevant and appropriate to the circumstances. I also know the term 'truth' is always up for debate. Don Miguel Ruiz also says that we should consider the following agreements 1. Be impeccable with your word 2. Don't take anything personally 3. Watch your assumptions (he says don't assume) 4. Always do your best 5. Be sceptical but also learn to listen

I guess some people are prepared to spend more time and energy in going to great lengths to get their point or their belief across. People will then seem satisfied that they have "won" but the cycle will repeat the next day for them like Groundhog Day. That's what I see. That doesn't make it the truth. It's just my interpretation. I work full time and am a carer a lot of the time I am not at work. So by the time I have finished on my own development work I literally don't have time to go picking arguments with people who I deem "wrong". Although I am doing that very thing now perhaps. Anyway I'm trying to move in the right direction and there will be mistakes along the way and lots of contradictions from me. I accept that.

Is this just an example of monkey mind? Why would something be true just because Leo has said it?

At last count I think there are 3 similar threads about Leo all near the top of the list in terms of activity. He will just make an appearance soon and say "it's not about me". I think he would be right. This is about us. Not him. These are all our issues to bear and work through. What difference does it make about his intentions and beliefs. He is making suggestions. He is inviting people to believe his beliefs. An invitation, that's all it is. He is the result of his own programme and his own mind. Just one human among 7 billion.

So what we have here is people with different beliefs. No one can prove anything either way. People are searching for something that makes sense to them and something they can believe in. People sometimes word things almost like it's an established fact, perhaps the person has even convinced themselves already it's an established fact. It could be for them. As Don Miguel Ruiz would say... we are all the main character in our own film and everyone else including the other posters on here are secondary characters. As the main character who runs the show, we then move the secondary characters around and sometimes assign them a different role, or write them out of the film altogether.

Good question. I am struggling to get to grips with that as well. I haven't ruled anything out 100% at the moment. I'm trying to stay away from concrete thinking on the matter. In terms of Leo's teachings, whatever I hear him state, I take this as a "suggestion", whether he intends it to be a "suggestion" or a "definite" I don't care. They are suggestions to me. Things to be contemplated and reflected on.

My journey is to be happier within myself without the use of any substance I could become addicted to, abuse, or otherwise develop an unhealthy dependence on. I have a history of doing this with alcohol, cannabis, tranquilisers and sleeping pills. They all became detrimental to many areas of my life and beneficial to no areas of my life, although at the time I thought they were beneficial in temporarily reducing fear, and managing insomnia. The cannabis was actually many years ago. I'm 8 months free of all the above and I'm beginning to feel natural "highs" and natural levels of peace of mind that I never thought possible WITHOUT the use of the above. It was a real shock to see so much behaviour being justified and supported on this forum around what I would term getting a drug-induced, artificial "high", all be it under the term psychedelics mostly. However, I'm also here to learn how be more openminded, less judgmental, and have more humility. It's none of my business if forum members want to use substances to help facilitate their goals and insight. For all I know, they might be the ones making great progress whilst I trudge along slowly and unspectacularly toward my goals (if I ever get there at all). My journey, experiences and willingness to experiment is for me, and everyone else can do as they please. Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

@ardacigin Thanks for this. I am soon to purchase this book. Have you considered writing a book review on here about it?

Maybe I just don't take things seriously enough, but if Leo responded to me by calling me a devil and that my idea, belief or action is devilry I would just laugh. I wouldn't think I am a devil. I wouldn't think I am evil. You are stating that some people with weaker minds might take it personally or actually believe it, or feel coerced to agree with Leo's beliefs? I think vulnerable people can access all forums and vulnerable people are at risk of having an adverse reaction to comments they read online, but I am not sure what Leo can do about this.

I know you do a lot of journals on here. Not looked at them much yet, but whatever you are doing it seems to be working as I have seen a few posts from you that scream high levels of humility and openmindedness. Two things I am chasing. Two things that if I can get right, my life, and those around me, will surely get better.

I'm new here. I've plucked your post out without reading every single post in this thread. This is a really funny thread for me. Half this post here of mine probably doesn't directly relate to what your saying to be fair, but I feel like letting some stuff out (my humble opinions). Even though I'm new I thought my perspective might have some validity, even if just a tiny bit! I lurked on this forum for ages. I watched a few "bits" of some of Leo's videos and thought the forum could be useful but that I'd avoid that crazy bald-headed guy in the videos who seems to have gone mad through all the obsessing about self-help books. This was my ignorance. I've still not watched a full video of his so I admit I still probably speak with some ignorance. However, a lot of the small bits of video's I've seen and posts he has made on here, has him strongly advising to keep an open mind and seek input from other teachers. You have used a lot of religious type words in your post but could the following also be true or valid? "Leo's already become a religion" - Are you speaking for yourself or on behalf of many? Your language seems to indicate you are fairly certain that one man has in fact become a "religion". "I see that in almost every post I read here (with the exception of a few members)" - Almost every post? This forum? I've not noticed that. "Many people already worship him and his beliefs" - This can happen with many, many people who run big forums or social media platforms. There might be 50 million more people who worship Justin Bieber than Leo. People want to buy into something, if it wasn't Leo, it would be someone else. Worship him and his beliefs? Or perhaps resonate and are curious? Of course there would be some that buy into his beliefs completely. It's normal. I don't think it's excessive on here for that. At one point I thought Leo was a complete turd. A joke. A megalomaniac. Looking at some of his video's and posts I don't really see someone like that. He is almost indifferent to the praise and indifferent but mostly responsive to the "groupies" who keep making threads asking him a question. "He has his own sermons that we are expected to watch and follow" - Expected? Really? Can you honestly say that? Or encouraged, advised to watch? I would say often Leo is merely making a "suggestion" to watch his videos. "Leo is a fallible human who is wrong almost as often as he is right, just like most of us. He has significant flaws, some of which even he is unaware of. If those statements offend you, then you already consider his teachings a religion. Take the religion out of spirituality and open your mind." - This comment seems a definite reach. You sound like his therapist! You are also telling me that if your post offends me (which it doesn't), then I already consider his teachings a religion. Really? My offense to your post = I consider his teachings a religion? If people (us) are led up some garden path by someone like Leo on the internet, then that's on us. Some of the posts on this thread make out that Leo has some special powers or something. I've never had any dialogue with Leo. I'm hazarding a guess he won't mind if people veered away from this website if they found a better teacher or got bored or sick of his talks, advice and feedback.

But what machine are people using? I hope it's better than the one Jeff Goldblum's character used in The Fly. I agree with you though. I'm skeptical too.