Nivsch

+1 ❤ I know this is from a month ago but this must be jumped to the top again and get more credit. By DawnC 🌅

@Karmadhi The military court for juveniles has decided to do deal for itself when some judges and the president of the military court for appeals said they have to stick with the Israeli and international laws, but the military court for juveniles refused to do so. From "Btselem" site.

@Karmadhi The West bank is full of hamas people especially in Hebron but not only.

@zazen It wasn't to justify anything but to add an another underrated parameter into the equation. You write many big words ("mistreat", "governed", "colonialism", "aphartheid") ungrounded in anything tangible and explicable I can answer too. This is no more than a very big helium balloon. Again it is recommended to Israel to stop build anything new and in that way offer an agreement based on this. But in the other hand Israel has initiated countless offers mediated by many players that could also put an end to the settlements expansion but was refused by the palestinians again and again.

Their human rights treshhold within their villages and cities even in west bank is limited by their own culture way before it is affected by IDF attendance near those villages.

@zazen There were many more versions with many more mediators than just Israel and Palestine for example in Anapolis Conference. They want the whole cake with all the colorful tiny candies on top too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapolis_Conference

@Nabd They have got countless offers from Israel to have a state on roughly 67' lines (with areas exchanges) which is obviously mean no new settlements within the new state's area.

@lina As much as I want the settlements expnasion to cease, still, the suffering from seeing new villages being built few km near your home is not comparable to the suffering of being killed, raped and kidnapped with a life threat on your head in any given moment for 70 days.

At this thread, unfortunatly. I responded to a claim by its same logic to show the ridiculousness of taking an edge case and projecting it so loosely as it is "Israel". About the rest of your message, when you take a society who has just got traumatized as was never before and Gazans are celebrating and dancing in the streets to that, what else do you expect to hear? I really don't understand.

@Karmadhi There are also women being sometimes murdered by their husbands in Tel Aviv and in Toronto. This doesn't make Israel or Canada a murderous tyrrani. I can also play the game of extreme edge cases.

@Raze Yes the helicopters helped to kill hamas people near the border at the beginning before IDF entered the kibbutses, and often it was harder for them to be accurate in the identifications so there were few mistakes. But nothing will change the facts: ~1200 murdered (~360 in Nova) 240 kidnapped By hamas.

@Karmadhi Actually the education I went through was quite pluralistic and about respecting others and differences. Yes of course we have learned also about our enemies and etc but only in the sense that Israel went through wars and peace agreements, but not about that anyone is evil or that we have to eliminate someone. Not at all. I can't say there aren't schools that teach more fanatic ideas as you mentioned, but I think they represent a minority. If you can send me the links and I will watch and relate.

@Karmadhi I really don't know to say how it can be done practically except that this is the insight I started to feel about this issue. The spiral dynamics strategy for example has already tried to be implemented, but it is still not a broad or deep enough strategy by itself, if we assume that stages are not the only factor but also cultural qualities and dominant psychological barriers which are unique to every culture.

Part of solving the problem is very much have to go through a therapuetic-spiritual attitude (customized personally to every side's weaknesses and obstacles to growth) not less than a geopolitical one.

There is nothing racist in saying a person (or a collective group) has problems with how he or she percieves himself or herself and other people intentions about him/her. The same problem can be expressed in a collective way too, and every collective group has its own weaknesses and strengths. I am not saying the Jews are better, but they just have weaknesses in other places.

Jews also have their unique disadvantages! Yes. Everyone have.

@zazen Why the palestinians were never had a state of their own for hunderds of years? I think this is because they are always want "all or nothing", they are always with vitcim mentality and they also have too much self condraticting forces within them. Really they have a problem with their thinking patterns. The main fault is not some demon outside, but within them.

Ok but possible, they have the money (unless hamas steal it for itself) and they can get the help of experts from the international community or maybe also Israel. I don't think Israel would refuse to help them if they would behave more pragmatic and show genuine intentions to reduce terrorism. Israel wants Gaza to be more moderate and could do far reaching moves to encourage that: https://www.timesofisrael.com/minister-floats-plan-for-gaza-seaport-island-to-end-blockade/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-wants-someone-to-build-a-5-billion-island-off-gaza--for-a-seaport-hotels-airport/2016/06/20/e45ce6fc-7948-4a10-bef3-0f782b030739_story.html Not to mention that Israel let thousands of Gazans to work in its area before the war. About the energy, there is an electricity power in Gaza which provide one third of the electricity, and the rest is provided by Israel. So, sorry, but I am not convinced Gaza couldn't solve this problem if they would not invest all of their efforts on terrorism. Building a successful state is not a simple linear predictable process but it requires efforts and creativity. This is not a simple formula from which we can say exactly what they could or couldn't do. This requires active responsiblity from them and generally to cry less. About the Wast Bank I believe this is more complicated because Israel is more involved there, as they doesn't have a fully independent state as Gaza, and hence Israel has more responsibility there to help solve the problem. I need to read about it for a while before I will know better and be able to say my opinion about west bank.

@Raze Ok. Why can't Gaza build desalination plants just like Israel did? Money is not their problem. Unless of course, hamas takes the necassary money for himself. They have access to sea water through their coastal strip.

In my opinion it might be and will have to be regulated in some way or another. Personally I don't like AI art and feel this is a worthless instant "art"

👍

@Raze Come ON. This happened only in the first hours, and food and water you can buy for many days until there is a real deficiency. You are just judging now and in an evil way a country who just 5 minutes before that went through a trauma. About the second part with the water before the war, if you can send me a link I will read it carefully.

If you want to attach to conspiracy to feel better and more comfortable within your mind you can, but this is only makes me take your another claims and prestigious words with which you speak out about other palestinian issues less seriously and give it a lesser weight.

Yes Netanyahu is a trump-like manipulator in a way most Israelis acknowledge and almost half of them are against him also because of this. But the feeling of fear and survival burden too.

I understand. I will just add my personal feeling about it. Iran is grasped as a very big demon in the eyes of Israelis, and thats because Iran is really the big brain that stands behind and funds Hezbollah, hamas, and the palestinian suicide bombing in busses and restaurants Israel is traumatized by from the early 00's, and also terror activities abroad against Israelis. During the recent decade Iran is developing a nuclear weapon at the exact same time when it declares more and more publicly that it wants to eliminate Israel from the map. A careful ear, when knows the past events when everybody were sure nothing really bad will happen (and we all know what happened) will take seriously this threat. The fear of Israel from Iran is very serious, and from that I can understand why Israel felt that urge to convince bush to do something that maybe will remove this untolerable nuclear threat and maybe will cause their regime to fall by the way. Also there are reasonable claims about the long term iranian's regime plan to encompass Israel physically in order to one day be able to treaten its existance. in fact, thats what middle eastern experts think that Iran wanted to do in the 7.10 surprise but hamas decided to do deal for itself and to do it alone what made Iran to be extremely in rage on it after oct 7th. I can add links on that. I agree that this is indeed hapenning, and there are a lot of close-minded Israelis especially from the right wing. But at the same time It hurts me a bit that people don't see the other sector of citizens we have here from the center-left camp (~40% and maybe more of the population) with them a deep conversation is really possible. Yes as long as the right wing is almost homogeneously controlls Israel, this is impossible. I agree about that. I can say that just couple of years ago I was more anti religion, but then I started to see that many of the "lite" religions actually have some depth in them and a sense of warmth when they relate to you, that this is harder to find among the hard-core secular ones which is interesting. But I emphasize this is probably mostly only among the 'lite' or moderate religious and of course not among the more hard-core religious that on them I agree with you.