VeganAwake

Maybe the feeling that there's something that needs to change is the corporate for this seemingly unnecessary longing for things to be other than what they are.

https://ajatasunyata.com/ Check out all the essays... believe you can download some of his books for free as well from there. Maybe also check out "A Course in Miracles" Made Easy by Alan Cohen

There is no ONE that attaches to thought. The One that is or isn't attached, is the illusion...? I get what you're saying though ❤

When that letting go or emptying out is combined with the realization that everything you believe to be true could in fact be completely wrong...it allows for that deep emptying out you described. It also helps to see how deeply conditioned and mechanical the mind actually is...it has a habitual repeating nature to it. ❤ Yes absolutely and it's been described as the crumbling away of untruth to reveal what has always been the case.

Non-duality isn't about metaphorically smashing everything into one...its not like saying 'I' am the body here, and simultaneously a race car in a Japanese shop... sure you could say all of this matter is interconnected energetically or something like that. But if you look, there IS apparent separation. There appears to be a body here and a pine tree over there. Non-dual awareness is pointing to the recognition that the experience of the separate individual within the body is completely illusory. " the separation never occurred" -- A Course in Miracles See Boundless Energy being that it's infinite and boundless can also appear restricted within the body and create the illusion of the 'ME' character experiencing itself here and the world and universe out there.(it turns all apparent happenings into a self-centered experience) When this 'self' illusion collapses it's simultaneously recognized it never existed in the first place... making Awakening a non happening... so in a sense you could say Awakening is only real within the dream of the separate individual that believes it will one day become awakened.... hence the phrase "you are already enlightened" seems nonsensical within the dream. So what recognizes this? You could call it consciousness, you could say no-thing recognizes it, you could say the recognition itself is illusory, you could say it's a Dream Within A Dream Within A Dream. What was recognized here is it simply doesn't matter... nothing does!! It's pure unequivocal freedom for No One. ❤ which was always the case.

That's a good way of explaining it...?

"Even in Kyoto- Hearing the cuckoo’s cry- I long for Kyoto" -- Matsuo Bashō (17th-century Japanese haiku master) "Ain't nothing wrong, ain't nothing right and still I sit and lie awake all night" -- Sublime "Something in the way, yeah Ummmmm" -- Nirvana

If you guys are God you still have to figure out who or what created God... ? and you can't say God created itself because maybe you're just not fully conscious yet of your Ultimate Creator... and even if God became fully conscious of its Ultimate Creator, God then has to become fully conscious of who created the Ultimate Creator. Like Osho said, it's better not to create the first delusion.

Did you say vegan eggs... Sometimes I miss scrambled eggs with cheese ?

The really interesting thing is 'you' can still sort a speak "play the game"... 'you' just can't really get overly tangled up any longer because the individual that before would take things personally, is now recognized to be unreal/misidentification/illusion (a non-happening). Basically there just isn't a sticky 'me' character there any longer to judge/make a story out of it, or prefer one solid outcome over another. So in that sense psychological suffering essentially falls by the wayside. It's ordinary and extraordinary freedom for no one!!

I use to suppress or bottle up so- called negative emotions and also feel guilt for not being a more loving and empathetic person. I thought what the heck is wrong with me. I began to examine deeply the source of this guilt...but all that was there was just thoughts. The source itself was the identification with thought (as in 'MY' thoughts) resulting in a feeling of guilt. Then I thought, well who is this crazy 'ME' character that keeps identifying with all these ridiculous thoughts. I began to look but it was just more thoughts.... I figured I didn't need these useless thoughts I had been identifying with, so I did what any good vegan minimalist would do, and had a old fashioned thought layer shedding ceremony. I can now truly say I love my empty 'self' more than ever ❤

@Moksha totally feel ya and love that humble reply... yes the personal impersonal....the wild and exciting unknowable ❤ Thanks for sharing ?

Everything and nothing simultaneously perfect zero ❤

Exactly, everything being experienced is whole complete and perfect because it's what is!! It's sooo here that it's often overlooked. ❤

That's awesome and what's being experienced there...❤

@Moksha hi there...❤ I was wondering from your perspective if you have experienced any value/benefit in understanding or recognizing so called Ultimate Reality?

The apparent issue with the knower is it believes there is an Ultimate Reality that can be known with enough persistent practice and inquiry. See even if the apparent 'knower' discovered the almighty creator of the universe, it would then ask "well what created the Creator"? ? So when the one asking these why questions is recognized to be completely unreal.... the answer to why ends up being.... Who cares?

Yep that's the cosmic joke. The recognition or understanding of THIS is also devoid of any real meaning purpose or value. In that sense it's not special and the one that attaches a specialness concept to it, is Maya illusion of the self. It's ordinary and extraordinary for no one and even this is just a dream story. The empty full ❤

The sacred knowledge bit always sells.

Totally get it, sometimes it feels as if we're taking steps backwards ❤ Sounds like 'you' are on the cusp of recognizing the limitations of listening and identifying with mind. Notice how the mind/ego/sense of self is always dragging us around looking for the grass is always greener on the other side scenario. Notice how even the desire to recognize everything as love is just another egoic desire subtly implying that what's Here and Now isn't already unconditional love or perfection. The Mind keeps saying: see what you're seeking is just around the next corner... but the corners never end lol.... it doesn't want to recognize the hamster wheel effect just runs us in circles endlessly. It's the weirdest thing because in the end, the very energy dragging us around seeking for fulfillment, love and liberation, turns out to be completely unreal. When the judgemental seeking energy dies, the concept clouds evaporate revealing the bright, perfect radiance of what was always here just waiting to be recognized. It's Freedom it's the Kingdom of Heaven it's Paradise....

Yeah when this is truly seen it can be that terrifying holy crap moment...? There's nothing to grasp ahold of when meaning purpose and value concepts shatter...? Of course it's always been the case so nothing really happend...? The real/unreal empty/full unconditional freedom for no one ❤

See how 'you' were born into a family which was conditioned by the environment around them and so on to the beginning of time.... it's completely radical and unfathomable... I mean look at it...we are literally a product of existence. Its a truly unknowable and unexplainable happening... the real and unreal. What's not to love ❤ regardless of circumstance. The unconditional love of everything exactly the way it is because it is what is.

The "Mystery"? "The nature of ultimate reality can only be understood when looking from its own viewpoint. That is to say, one’s conditioned perspective of reality must be put aside. The simplest explanation is to consider that one’s life in the world and universe has the characterization of a dream. Into this dream, each dreamer is born. To the dreamer, the world and universe have the appearance of being real. The dreamer takes himself to be real, and therefore the world and universe this person is “in” to be real. The dreamer “knows” that he has “come into” this life, therefore at some point he will “go out” of life. The dreamer “knows” that although he will die, the world and universe and fellow dreamers will persists after his death; that the dream will continue when the dreamer no longer exists. None of this is so. When the dreamer ceases to be, the dream ceases to be. The dream has never been real. The dreamer has never been real. In other words, an unreal dreamer dreams a dream that is unreal. Only if the person, the world, and universe were real would any of this be justified to have an explanation. Any explanation would entail the process of cause—and—effect, time and space (or location). Ultimate reality has no relationship to time, space or cause –and—effect. These are elements which occur only within the dream. Only within the dream is it a legitimate question to ask, “How then can life and the world and universe be?” Any answer would entail the processes of time, space and cause—and—effect. Such processes occur only within the dream itself. Therefore, any answer will be an answer within the unreal dream. The point is that all that is apparent to the dreamer is simply that: an illusory appearance. What appears to be real or actual is not the same thing as what is real or actual. What is actual, is ultimate reality. Ultimate reality can be characterized as empty; no-thing or nothingness. Ultimate reality is absent any of the qualities of the dream. Being emptiness itself, it has no need of an explanation or a justification. There are no questions which one can ask about nothing. Questions and answers are a product of the dream. Nothing is not the cause of anything or the effect of anything. Cause —and—effect is a process only within the dream. So, if we ask, “What is the cause of the unreal dream?”, the cause is the unreal dreamer. An apparent dreamer interacts in an apparent world in an apparent universe. None of what appears to be is actual. What appears as “real” within the dream is not actual, not ultimate reality. To understand ultimate reality, one must go “outside” the conditioned perspective that is within the dream. It can only be understood from the standpoint that no thing is real. Nothingness is what’s real. From the standpoint of nothingness, it is clear that not anything in our dream world, including oneself, is important. None of the activities in the world matter “outside of” the unreal dream. There is no meaning in life, in an ultimate sense. Anything which is to be taken “seriously” is within the unreal dream. Whatever you do, or anyone else does (or doesn’t do), does not matter in any real sense. This insight is the freedom which one can experience within the dream. It is justified on its own terms." -- Robert Wolfe (Ajata Project)

This is good inquiry ❤ 'I' think of the mind like a runaway train, sure it's an aspect of Consciousness as 'you' put it, but that doesn't negate the fact that it has become an entity unto itself. Simply put...it's getting too much attention. The thoughts themselves aren't the apparent issue....the issue is the value and identification as 'MY' thoughts which so to speak keeps giving the runaway train fuel... if you keep popping quarters into the think machine, it keeps thinking. Don't get 'me' wrong, some thoughts are apparently useful like: maybe 'I' shouldn't go ?, there appears to be sharks in the water or maybe 'I' shouldn't drive after these several beers since there's 3 three confirmed DUI checkpoints randomly placed. When these blah blah blah thoughts aren't constantly entertained and energized/identified with, they lesson and become the background noise instead of the forefront. Mind is Playing Tricks, it says: See it's all Consciousness very relevant and important, keep feeding me and paying attention. Is consciousness just an aspect of the Mind? Truly inquire non-biasedly!! If the Mind becomes a vegetable, is consciousness still there? If the body/mind got annihilated by a 75 mile an hour semi truck, is apparent Consciousness still there, or is it all just a dream thought.

@billiesimon ❤ "Mind contemplated "What is Mind?" for several days and this is what Mind found" Is 'I' something other than Mind?