VeganAwake

After awakening, love here feels not only as an acceptance but also as a big picture understanding of the human condition and behavior. Things are just seen for what they are because that's what's happening and what's happening is what's true. ❤

Absolutely, and truth seems to be an ever-changing infinite potential rather than something solid(truth is constant change)...so truth is THIS or What IS. Quick story: My friend told me over the phone that he was excited to experience the natural self without ego, I told him the natural self is the ego... How can what's happening be argued with as unnatural right?... So in that sense identification as an individual and or awakening are equally natural(as in one isn't better than the other). There is nothing unnatural, there's just THIS or the Dao. Every path is the path ❤

And that's what's being experienced there bud. It felt perfectly spot on here.

Wow...That's such a beautiful way of explaining....thank you ❤ I didn't have a religious background or structure really. Everything feels like an unguided and boundless life energy without parameter or purpose. All the beautiful words that attempt to describe it, are also it. And the realization of it seems to hide itself by being everything. ❤

I know you're not and yes it's good inquiry ❤ All that's being expressed here is that there isn't any real separation.... sure within the appearance of everything there seems to be different sects, groups, cultures ,religious belief systems, states, countries, territories, continents.... this apparent separation is imaginary.... the borders that seem to separate are imaginary. ❤ Exactly the same as the experience as a separate sense of self within the body... different thoughts and beliefs identified with does not constitute a real separation.

❤ Who is the 'My'... If it's 'my' ego, 'my' thinking and suffering....who or what makes up this sense of 'My'? Who is the 'ME' and what does it consist of?

How can there be separation between something that's real and something that doesn't exist. Would you run up to a man having a fight with his imaginary friend and tell them to separate?

If everything always seemed perfect it would get boring rather quickly. There's nothing right or wrong with mourning. The idea that one feeling is better than the other or that something needs to change creates an inner struggle or resistance. We seem to want the good without the bad the happiness without the sadness the light without the darkness... this sets up a constant craving and aversion cycle that will never end. ❤

Nihility “Isn’t ‘nothingness’, as the basis of ajata teachings, an outgrowth of nihilism?” Nihilism is, generally, a word used by philosophers. In the nothingness of which ajata speaks, there are no words, ideas, definitions or labels which apply. In nothingness, there is not any thing—even “nihilism” has no reality there. Nihil is Latin for “nothing”. Theologians consider whether the universe was created ex nihilo, which means “out of nothing”. But, as stated above, there is not anything which comes out of nothing. From the standpoint of nothingness—and the teachings of ajata— not anything has ever been created (starting with the universe). Ajata is unsettling to religionists; it undercuts every doctrine that could be promulgated. Further, it indicates that there is no meaning or purpose since there has not been anything created which could have such values. When it is possible to give up the attachment to “something”—anything—then nothingness (nihility) can be understood. But when the attempt is to try to envision nothingness in relationship to something else (“Then what’s here?”), there is still an attachment to the idea that there is some thing other than nothing which “exists”. The teaching of nihility, like it or not, is that reality does not exist. In fact, “nothing” itself can be said neither to exist or not exist. Not anything can be said of nothing. But that doesn’t mean that the premise can’t be understood, empty as it is. In fact, emptiness is a synonym for nothingness, as long as you can envision emptiness outside of something that is empty. So, one could say of nihility that “all is emptiness,” in a like manner—denying the reality of the “all”. Where most people go astray in attempting to understand nothingness is this: nothing is nothing. There is not anything which nothing can be compared to, because you have nothing that you can bring to the comparison. Nothing is devoid of characteristics or questions. In Buddhism, the synonym is called the void. But the mind immediately evokes a “void”, which is to say “not a non-void”. This is why the word “nothing” must be comprehended: we are not talking about a void that stands away somewhere from something that is not a void. Nagarjuna says, “If there are things that are not empty, ‘voidness' may exist. If everything is empty, how can even emptiness exist?” His point: “There is nothing that is not empty”. This means “void” and “non-void” are both empty! Shantideva says clearly, “There is nothing…how can absence—lacking all support—remain before the mind, as something present?” Nothing does not mean something. It means nothing at all, not anything. Nothing to behold. Is nothingness empty “like space”? Nothing is empty of space. We could say that it was nothing before empty space. Nothing does not have, or occupy, space. All thought—particularly about nothingness—is empty". Ramana: “I teach ajata.” “Ajata means ‘non-creation,’” David Godman has written. It is a philosophical or experiential standpoint that declares or knows that neither the physical world nor the person in it have ever been created. “Questions about the liberation or bondage of persons are therefore inadmissible and hypothetical since the persons themselves do not really exist. They are all a complete fiction brought about by the power of defective imagination.” Godman adds: “When one…knows the truth of ajata by direct experience…such a one is sahaja nishta [experiencing sahaja].” Godman: “This particular standpoint…known as ajata or non-becoming…was the only teaching that Ramana taught from his own experience.” As Muruganar, one of Ramana’s most faithful disciples has said, “We have heard him say that his true teaching, firmly based on his experience, is ajata.” Regarding such teachings, Godman has written, “Almost all his ideas were radical refutations of the concepts of physical reality that most people cherish.” Ramana has said: That alone is real…which is eternal and unchanging. Was (the world) ever seen without the aid of the mind? In deep sleep, there is neither mind nor world. When awake, there is the mind and there is the world. What does this invariable concomitance mean? You are familiar with the principles of inductive logic, which are considered the very basis of scientific investigation. Why do you not decide this question of the reality of the world in the light of those accepted principles of logic? He adds: There is no alternative for you but to accept the world as unreal if you are seeking the truth and the truth alone. Ramana notes: A dream as a dream does not permit you to doubt its reality. It is the same in the waking state, for you are unable to doubt the reality of the world which you see while you are awake. How can the mind, which has itself created the world, accept it as unreal? That is the significance of the comparison made between the world of the waking state and the dream world. Both are creations of the mind and, so long as the mind is engrossed in either, it finds itself unable to deny their reality. It cannot deny the reality of the dream world while it is dreaming and it cannot deny the reality of the waking world while it is awake. Adding: If, on the contrary, you completely withdraw your mind from the world…you will find the world of which you are now aware is just as unreal as the world in which you lived in your dream… While you are dreaming, the dream was a perfectly integrated whole. That is to say, if you felt thirsty in a dream, the illusory drinking of illusory water quenched your illusory thirst. But all this was real and not illusory to you so long as you did not know that the dream itself was illusory. Similarly with the waking world… Only if there is creation do we have to explain how it came about… Whatever you see happening in the waking state happens only to the knower, and since the knower is unreal, nothing in fact ever happens". -- Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

Not sure if this is the guy but he has almost a similar if not exact story to what you were describing... he was very well known in spiritual circles.

Well of course everything is already non-dual, there are just imaginary lines and beliefs that seem to separate within the appearance. Those apparent separations are not real. And of course non-duality is just a word pointing to everything exactly the way it is without any real separation. So in that sense everything is already whole complete and perfect whether it's recognized or not. There's not a separate 'you' being a nondualist, there is only everything. ❤

I would imagine all of the above honestly... there's no real telling. I have heard everything from, major life transformation to nothing really noticeable externally changing at all. It is very radical and fun to talk about so it does seem that there are quite a few that find a way to earn an income by sharing their communication whether by writing books, holding retreats and online discussion groups with those who are open-minded and interested in the message.... but it's obviously easier to find these people because of their popularity. Simultaneously I would imagine it must happen all over the world and I'm sure some don't really discuss it that much at all.... I heard a story about an awakened guy discussing it with some people at a bar and his longtime friend grabbed him by the neck because he was so frustrated with what he was talking about.... So one probably should be aware of the company he or she is talking to...lol. When Awakening occurred here for example I still had three years left in the military before getting a retirement pension for the rest of my life. It just made sense financially for our family for me to finish up and get that retirement. Just simply can't tell it's fair game afterwards ❤

I know you do ❤ I love you too brother it's unconditional and unshakable

Notice how so-called infinite consciousness doesn't actually extend any further than the natural bodies senses and imagination. For example, your not actually aware of what your neighbors had for dinner and what movie they watched before bed. A bird could fly over head and shit, and you wouldn't be conscious of it, until it landed on your head. You also aren't aware of what's happening at the 711 fuel station in Stuttgart Germany right now. Sounds like this amazing consciousness bit isn't really all it was chalked up to be. The body can see, hear, feel, smell, taste, think/imagine(intellect) Is consciousness actually something other than this?

It will fight tooth and nail through and through. Why? Because it does not want to disappear. It simply cannot conceive of its own unreality, it doesn't have the capacity. It typically has decades of energy or inertia keeping the hamster wheel spinning.(running the rat race) (identifying with the thoughts) The trick however is not in denying or fighting this illusion. Rather look closely and notice its unreality. When it's really been rattled or loosened up good, one of it's last ditch emergency attempts to keep itself intact is to become the Spiritual do-gooder 'self/ego. The spiritual ego is extra sneaky because it appears to fall away and then sneaks in the back door as the new higher 'true self' or Self with a capital S. But this new spiritual do-gooder Self will eventually start showing its incredibly High levels of spiritual narcissism (usually within a short amount of time). It's very good at disguising it's egoic love agenda as unconditional love... and why wouldn't it? , it wants to survive.... it says why get rid of me, I'm all about goodness and love. Notice the special spiritual ego!! Look and simply notice, that's all it takes!! ❤

The spiritual search is by nature a very self centered desire and awakening ends up being a very personal and impersonal experience simultaneously. What ends up being rather surprising is that often that drive to go out and save the universe actually falls away because it's then recognized that the only mechanism that was fueling that desire was in fact the ego with its relentless(something needs to be done and I'm just the one to do it) specialness requirement. Ultimately it ends up being fair game... and whatever happens is what's happening.

❤ okay yes ?

Love you too bud....❤ Remember what's already the case doesn't need to be found because it's already Everything.

@mandyjw ❤ those are great points. yes when an injury and pain occurs a thought arises with it claiming it as my injury and my pain and usually exaggerating the entire situation which is neither right nor wrong... just what's happening...THIS!!

The relative(partial) and absolute(whole) is an illusory duality. Therefore they can't be mixed because they were never separate to begin with... that's the dream. What's being pointed out here can be directly verified. What's being pointed out there is an illusory concept constructed by infinite imagination. Go ahead and test it... See this so-called infinite consciousness theory actually holds no water when put to the test. For example have you ever actually experienced this all-knowing infinite consciousness state(or whatever you want to imagine it to be) during sleep or under anesthesia at the doctor's office.... So even if there was an all-knowing infinite consciousness, that can one day become aware of itself(duality) what does it matter in any way at all. There isn't a real consequence or verifiable outcome.... they're still not a knowing of what the neighbors ate for dinner last night six blocks down.... there's not a knowing of what's being held right now in my left hand as I get ready for work.... There is only what is directly sensed by the bodily functions or imagined( intellect)... It's sort of like saying I am the boss of a company minus the ability to actually direct anything or make any notable changes to its framework. nothing is directing the show on the runaway train. It's infinite and boundless but nothing is directing it. ?

There's nothing you can do because it's like hearing the beer on the next Island over is much better than what you currently have been drinking. It can however be recognized that these are just thoughts identified with (as in 'MY' thoughts)... they are not your thoughts they are just thoughts arising. No need to entertain these thoughts about Enlightenment, simply notice them and let them pass on... don't get caught up and identified with them. ❤

Have you not meditated wandered lead and taught? These are mere consequences of existence no one is higher than the other. ❤

This can't really be answered because when Liberation occurs it's completely fair game for this/that and in between. If anyone tells you something should or shouldn't be done rest assured Liberation has not occurred there. Otherwise it wouldn't be liberation!!

Look and notice who or what wants awakening? Can you find a real individual that wants to awaken? ❤