VeganAwake

I completely understand what you mean ❤ Yes it's a recognition. Not a replacing of paradigms, a collapsing of paradigms due to the recognition that the only thing that believes in paradigms is a conditioned thought. I'm in the US Navy and if I went to work talking about "nothing matters" I would probably end up with a mental health discharge. Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water after Enlightenment chop wood carry water. Before Enlightenment one must roll the boulder up the hill after Enlightenment one must still roll the boulder up the hill. What has changed? The resistance to what is! Heck, there can even be resistance, it's that free. But it's not someone apparently resisting, its resistance itself. Resistance and acceptance become equally meaningless.

An Empty Answer "You want me to “say more” about nothingness. Could anything be more paradoxical for the reader than to try to understand “nothing”? Why? Because most people start from the conviction that there is something which does exist; if nothing more, at least “me”. So, you will not likely appreciate nothingness unless you have come to realization through advaita. At least we will, then, begin without the assumption that a “me” really exists. But even for the realized advatin, there will almost certainly be a presumption that “something” exists in the realm of reality. Even “reality”. Advaita points to ajata, and ajata is about nothingness, or emptiness. The Diamond Sutra of Buddhism, points exclusively to it. Hui Neng, the Sixth Chinese Patriarch, declares flatly: ‘There is nothing from the start.” These sources, among others, set your foot on the path, but recognize that most people are then going to immediately be lost. I have written clearly about advaita, and several have understood what I’ve said. I have spoken, to some of these, about what lies beyond the “Absolute,” and a couple have understood. So I will try to explain it, as best I can. The “ultimate condition” (if any) is nothingness, the complete “absence” of anything—no thing, of any possible description. The (approximate) comprehension of this would be to conceive of “emptiness”, as the emptiness of which not anything could be emptied; pure unassociated emptiness, and not even an emptiness which is within some imagined boundaries. The word “void” could be applied; but this “actuality” is not void of something—in any positive sense. So the nothingness of which we speak is totally empty, free of any subtlety which could even be envisioned. Hence there is not anything “within” it that can be subject to any kind of movement, or even change. Not anything can “come from” nothingness, nor “return” to it. It is not the “origin” of anything. In fact, it could not be applicable to say that it exists, or does not exist. Thus we can’t say that this is the “beginning” condition or the “ending” condition. At best, we could say that (if it were “existent”) it would be the ever-present condition. Yet, it is not an abstraction: its presence is “eternal”. “In” its presence are supposed creatures, and the world and universe they seem to inhabit. But all of these supposed things are “in” nothingness. They have not appeared from nothingness, or out of nothingness, or because of nothingness. In fact, they have not actually “appeared”, except as nothingness. The creatures take their reality, their “existence”, for granted; and thus also the reality or existence of the world and its universe—not knowing that they are nothing. The assumption is: ‘There was a time when I didn’t exist, a time when I existed, and a time when I will no longer exist”. But there are no such times. Not anything has ever “existed”, from the standpoint of nothingness. In nothingness, there is no “time”. What makes this so difficult to understand, is that because we say that “I have existed”, we conclude that there is some thing. And indeed we look around and say there are other things, such as a world or a universe. But the presumption that there was a time when I did not exist (or do; or will not exist) is false: no arising, abiding or decaying exists in nothingness. In other words, not anything “happens” in nothingness. “We” are nothing, the “world” is nothing, the “universe” is nothing. In nothingness, there is neither existence nor nonexistence. There is only nothing. From the standpoint of nothingness, no questions can arise. We can not ask for, nor expect, an explanation: not anything ever happens, in nothingness. The value of this understanding is that not anything really matters. Even understanding this does not matter. All is emptiness. That is the “empty” answer. The scriptures speak of one who is in sahaja samadhi as having “no mind” or an “empty mind”. It is this appreciation of nothingness that is referred to. Contemplation on Emptiness Ajata has the same basis as advaita. Instead of pointing out that all things are the Absolute, ajata asks the question, “What is true nature of the Absolute”? The Absolute’s nature is empty of any qualities whatsoever: It is emptiness. Any name which we have given to anything tells us that it is a form, and that means that this form has simply been given its identity by thought. Even the notion of “existence” itself depends upon a mind to give it acknowledgement as a particular quality. But does a mind actually exist? In advaita, we have been saying that all manifestations are the Absolute. In ajata, we’re going further and saying that the Absolute is empty. All manifestations, of whatever kind, are empty. Advaita says that the Absolute is all that is. Ajata says there’s not even the Absolute. Ajata is just a matter of going beyond the idea of the Absolute, recognizing that it is no thing, nothing. Advaita teaches that you are not real. And ajata, that all that is seen is not real either. If the self is you, there is one you. If the mind is you, there are two yous. Can the mind exist without you? To know that the self is empty, and that there is no I, does not prevent the organism from living out its apparent role. To the extent that we have had a dream, we say that it is “real”. But as a tangible form or object, we know that it is not real. When you dream, dream figures are present. But upon waking, you do not inquire into the health or activities of the dream figures. When we know that we do not exist, nor does the world, there is not anything which needs to be changed or improved. If in a dream someone told you “Don’t believe anything you see going on here—it’s all simply being presented to fool you”, would you take this to be the truth? Every thought is about something which the mind has given a name to. What is the value of a thought when we can know that every name is simply an arbitrary creation? When you know that ‘what is’ is not, does this have an important impact on how you live your life? Emptiness is as important a factor in your life, as your life is to you. In advaita, we say you are not who you think you are. In ajata, we say not anything is as it appears to be. Emptiness is not form: it is the condition which indicates that form does not exist as it appears to. There are no forms in our deep sleep. Emptiness is there. We have to use words—which are unreal—to explain emptiness. We must talk about forms, in order to indicate their emptiness. But, in reality, there are no forms. The face in the mirror appears to really be a face. But it is empty of true existence. Foolishly would we attempt to defend its realness. When we speak of emptiness, we are saying that something is empty. That is the role of the “something”, to be empty. But if all things are empty, where is emptiness? Emptiness does not “exist”. The I does not truly exist. It appears to exist. So—from the standpoint of its appearance—we say that it “exists”. But, from the standpoint of truth, we say that it does not exist. There is not anything which your mind is apart from: everything depends on your mind. And yet, your mind is simply one of those things. Empty yourself of all ideas of ‘what is’ and/or ‘what is not’. Where there is no I, there is no other-than-I. As surely as you know that there’s no I, you know that there’s no thing. Advaita says you are the Absolute. When the seeker (you) and the sought (Absolute) disappear into each other, what is left? Nothing. In the same way, ajata’s teaching is that emptiness itself is empty. Even emptiness does not truly exist. This is why, in advaita, it’s said that there is not anything to realize. There is not any thing that is real. And what is not real cannot arise to become existent. Anything which could arise into existence must be caused. But all causes themselves are empty, as are any other phenomenon. Only if phenomena were real would we need to explain its “existence” or lack of it. The philosophy of nihilism does not apply here. There is no truly existent self that can hold any view. In advaita, we often speak of the dualities, such as me and you, right and wrong. In ajata, no dualities exist as real, from the start. A sky must exist in a space. A space needs something to define it. Each is dependent upon another for its reality. As independent realities, neither can exist. Except for there being the cause of form, Form would not be seen. Except for there being what we call “form,” The cause of form would not appear either. —Nagarjuna Taking yourself to be more than an appearance, you assume your world is real also, and more than an appearance. But a non-existent you can only be seeing a non-existent world. We establish a presumed universe, and then ask “How can we say that this is a void?” Impermanence means that everything is in change constantly, moment by moment. No thing, in fact truly exists as a fixed “thing”, at any time. If there is a time that had a beginning somewhere, then time can come to an end. Time, then, is not a lasting reality. Since you do not exist, you cannot ask, “How am I here?”, because in reality you aren’t. You appear to be real, to an unreal you—as the you in a dream takes its reality for granted. If you were in deep sleep, where “you” and your “mind” do not appear;, and the heart stopped: would you know that you had died? Come to know that there is no death, and therefore nothing after it (especially a sensate “individual”) and you will end such questions as “what comes after death?” If there were a non-emptiness of emptiness, it would be where we impute any qualities to emptiness. An actor can have the knowledge that he is not real, and that the character whose role he is playing has never been, and yet he can play out the role he is living as his life. When you “get” emptiness, you need not concern yourself about anything that preceded emptiness. The world is a dream. You who say it exists is saying so within that dream. A figure in a dream is entertained by a magic-show world. What becomes of the dream figure and the world when the dream ends? When you close your eyes for the last time, this will all disappear. The slate will be wiped clean. You may say, “But it will be there for others”. No: the others disappear with you, not anything remains. So is the world real or did it appear when you opened your eyes—and ends when you die? If the world is not real, are you real? Any answers we can get to erroneous questions, will be erroneous answers. The world is an illusion. Yet here it is—as an illusion. You say the mind is real because we both experience it. No, if it were real we would both have the same experience of the mind. And if the world were real, we would both have the same experience of the world. Anything that’s real must be real to both of us in the same way. Since there is no self, there is no mind. And because there is no mind, there is no perception or consciousness of a world or universe. There are, therefore, no legitimate questions about anything. “No mind” is the consequence of the realization of emptiness. Emptiness tells us that there’s not anything we need to get. Anything we could get would be empty. The getter itself is empty. Where there is nothing we need to get, there is nothing we can become. All that could remain is to be as you are—empty. When you get to nothing, there’s no further to go. When you can end all of your problems—as well as the world’s—peacefully, why concern yourself with how that came about? Do the wise abide somewhere between self and no-self? The wise do not abide. If you insist on having a meaningful explanation, then you’re not understanding emptiness. “Phenomenon” are not empty because of emptiness. Emptiness is what phenomenon are. “Nothing can come from nothing.” —Lucret - Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

Well It's not something you really apply to life, its a recognition. It's Liberation but for No One ❤

Beware of what the half-truth fairy. There's no such thing as half truth because there isn't a whole truth. Truth is a man-made concept of the mind. There's just what is. Nothing matters in any way at all. You could spend the rest of your life sitting on the couch eating cookies and watching p*** or become the president of the United States... it does not matter in any way at all. The only thing that places meaning purpose and value on anything is a conditioned thought. The thoughts place an illusory overlay on top of reality and operate from that perception. ❤

And that's perfect whole & complete ❤ This thread was really just an attempt to point out how conditioned the mind is. Even the thought that the dogs should be running around humping without human involvement is also a conditioned thought. We are the conditioning and simultaneously not ❤

Existence already knows what to do, your jealousy and or conditioned thoughts are getting in the way. Get out of your own way ?

It's wonderful and simultaneously lacks any meaning value or purpose whatsoever. ❤

So there is a conditioned thought identified with there that thinks lots of hungry bastard dogs is a negative thing. Without the **** blocking... Lots of hungry humping dogs would be the case But I get what you're saying and yes there's nothing right or wrong with anything ❤

BTW... you're not going to think your way to enlightenment. Enlightenment is the recognition there never was a thinker of thoughts...❤

Empty Glass be the neutral watcher

And notice that's just another thought. A futile attempt to not give meaning to thought. Just Be watchful of the thoughts

Exactly just thoughts running rampid ?

@Someone here Who is asking? & Who doesn't know? What is that?

The freedom is in the recognition that there was nothing that needed to be done in the beginning. Everything has already been whole complete & perfect all along. And it's that way because that's what's happening ❤

Watch them run around, rushing to the gym and grocery store. Listen to them giving there conditioned responses to the boss. Stop and notice everyone running the rat race lost in thought. There under a spell completely caught up and identified. Notice how their thoughts drag them around like slaves. Become a watcher. And watch your own conditioned patterns of thought arise. Where is it leading you? Why is it taking you there? Who is listening to it?

Also there's nothing wrong with anything including being drug around by thoughts.... because the only thing that would say there's something right or wrong with it is just another conditioned thought. This is why it's already Paradise it's already freedom. There isn't any way to be and there's nothing right or wrong with anything. This recognition is liberation ❤

I know what you mean and this is where it's hard to relate sometimes because after Awakening it's recognized the individual that believed it needed to be more conscious or improve its situation by doing Shadow work was never real in the first place and that whole thought of self-improvement dissolves or becomes not applicable. ❤

Yes sometimes you can hear something a hundred times, and then one day it's like a paradigm shift and it becomes understood from a different angle.... and it's like oh that's what was meant by that phrase. ❤

What truth are you talking about?

Well what's being pointed to, is that which thinks IT may be a factory cow in the next life is an illusory identification made possible by boundless energy. So that personalized ME within the body is not alive or dead, it actually never was real in the first place.

Nothing dies AND nothing goes on living because there already isn't a YOU. It's some kind of boundless smart energy that also has the ability to constrict itself creating an individual experience within the body.

It's the unconditioning of mind. The recognition that meaning purpose and value are mere learned illusory concepts/a conditioned thought process.

Good question and It's kind of a tough question...and I think it varies. Because helping could also include the identification with thought which often leads to suffering. And the inner desire to change these patterns. Here there was what seemed to be an about-face or 180 degree flip of the mind in on itself and a recognition that it just didn't know the answers. Later it almost seemed as if the thoughts recognized their own limitations and the futility of trying to know. Almost like a humble mind. Of course all of this is just a description of what seemed to have taken place here.... it's a wild ride ❤

Like Leo says "awareness alone is curative" Understanding this is the grace or unconditional love for humanity. We are born into conditioning plain and simple. Some move towards disentangling from the socially conditioned mind matrix known as the 'ME'. Others believe the answer is hidden in the tangle jungle up ahead. Either way it's all THIS and simply can't be missed ❤