VeganAwake

I understand everything you're saying. Another way to explain this whole apparent debacle: The human is not much different than the animal. The main difference with the human is that it appears its brain evolved faster and or differently for reasons unknown. This evolved brain of the human now has the ability to become an entity unto itself (the ME). It has essentially evolved past basic survival strategy like that of the animal.(its not good or bad) This illusion of separation creates an illusory problem. That problem being: I feel separate from existence, like something is missing and needs to be found. But this problem is founded within a misunderstanding.... or like Jim Newman says, "a psychosomatic misunderstanding". So the human spends its life running around in a misunderstanding or dream story of sorts, trying to find something that was never missing. It tries to find something to fix the unreal problem of feeling separate ie: Materialism: money; possessions; hot hubby/wiffey. Spiritual Materialism: Religion; spirituality; Adviata(non-duality). Here is an essay from Tony Parsons: The Story of Me "All there is is wholeness . . . boundless energy appearing as everything . . . the sky, trees, feelings, thoughts, whatever. It is the mystery of no thing simultaneously being everything. There is nothing apart from the boundless everything and yet, because it is free, it can appear to be separate from itself . . . it can appear to be the story of me. There is nothing right or wrong in that appearance which is wholeness apparently happening. Contracted energy seems to arise in the human being and create a sense of separation out of which arises a unique sense of identity . . . a self consciousness. The me is born and the story of me seems to begin. Me is the story and the story is me and one cannot exist without the other. They both only appear and function in a dualistic subject object reality. Everything seems to be personally experienced as a series of events in real time happening to a real me. Within that story time, journey, purpose and free will and choice seem to be real. This sense of separation is not just an idea, a thought or a belief. It is a contracted energy embodied in the whole organism which influences every experience. As a consequence the me experiences a tree, the sky, another person, a thought or a feeling through a veil of separation. It is as though me is a something and everything else is lots of other separate somethings happening to me. What arises from this once removed sense is a subtle feeling of dissatisfaction. A feeling that something is lost or hidden. For most people this sense of dissatisfaction is not that apparent, and because they believe they are individuals with free will and choice they seem motivated to try and create a successful story . . . good relationships, good health, wealth, personal power or whatever else. However, for some there is a greater sensitivity about something else that seems to be missing. This feeling generates a longing for a deeper sense of fulfilment. There can be an investigation into religion, therapy or the meaning of enlightenment. Because the me has become convinced that it has the means to influence its story, it also assumes that it can find deeper fulfilment through its own choice, determination and action. The me may, for instance, go to a priest or a therapist or a teacher of enlightenment in order to find what it thinks it needs. Often because the me feels it has lost something, there can be a sense of inadequacy and so what is pursued is a teaching that satisfies the need to do something which will bring about a personal transformation and make the me worthy of fulfilment. All of this activity is apparently happening within the story of me which is functioning in an artificially dualistic reality. So me is searching in the finite for that which is infinite. It is a something looking for another something, and what it really longs for remains unobtainable by already being everything. It is rather like trying to catch air with a butterfly net. It isn’t difficult, it is wonderfully impossible. The essential futility of that searching inevitably fuels the sense of a me who feels even more unworthy and separate. However, in the seeking activity there can be experiences along the way that encourage the me to search further and try harder. Personal therapy can bring a transient sense of personal balance in the story. Practices like meditation can bring a state of peace or silence. Self enquiry can bring an apparently progressive experience of understanding and strengthened awareness. But for awareness to function it needs something apart for it to be aware of. Awareness simply feeds separation, and a state of detachment can arise and be mistaken for enlightenment. All of these states come and go within the story of me. The basis of all teaching of becoming enlightened is the idea that a change of belief or experience can lead to a personal knowing of oneness, self realisation or of discovering your own true nature. The whole investment in a progressive path goes on feeding the story of me attaining something. Even the suggestion of personal surrender or acceptance can be initially attractive and bring a satisfying state . . . for a while. There are many so-called non-dual 'teachings' which feed the story of me becoming liberated. However, the oneness that is longed for is boundless and free. It cannot be grasped or even approached. Nor is there anything that would need to be done or changed or made better than that which is already everything. The me experience can be very convincing because “the world” it lives in seems to be dominated by lots of me’s in lots of stories. But the me construct is inconstant and has no foundation. All of the me story is only a dance of wholeness which is without significance or purpose. A deep and uncompromising exposure of the artificial construct of separation and the story of me can loosen the constraints that keep it locked in place and reveal the way in which seeking can only reinforce the dilemma. The apparent sense of separation, however, is at its essence an energetically contracted energy which no amount of conceptual clarity will ever undo. When there is an openness to the possibility of that which is beyond self-seeking, then it seems that the contracted energy can evaporate into the boundless freedom which it already is. And still this is only another story which attempts to point to and describe a total paradox . . . the apparent end of something that was never real . . . the story of me. All there is, is boundless freedom"

Lets look at it bro. Do you remember being conscious prior to birth? Do you remember anything before the age of about two or three? If you're honest the answer is a 100% no I do not, unless you have some kind of mental disorder. In that sense it seems like a pretty safe assumption to assume that after that body/mind organism dies nothing goes on existing.(Awakening or not) The biggest problem for the sense of self is death. It simply cannot comprehend or fathom the idea of itself not being there...it's the most important self on the planet don't you know. This is of course why religion/spiritual materialism is so popular.... it feeds perfectly into the sense of self's delusions of eternal life.

Deconstructing implies that there is really a self in which could be deconstructed.... this is a misunderstanding. There already isn't a self. These kinds of words such as deconstruct, collapse, let go, or die before you die are just metaphors, pointing to something which seems to occur but doesn't actually. The collapse of the self is clearly seeing that it never existed in the first place .....the dropping of the Veil, Maya or Illusion.

I'm trying to help 'you' notice that there already isn't a 'you' in which could die.... and it's not working very well not surprisingly LOL. THIS is already death because the 'you' that starts forming around the age of three is an illusion. Have you heard the phrase: to die before you die..... That phrase isn't talking about body/mind organism death, it's pointing to the collapse of the illusory entity that claims itself as the body/mind organism. And yes only no one can know this. ❤

Yep most people's apparent problems become a part of their identity.... who would I be without all these problems? Then oftentimes the attempted solution ends up being to gather up with other problematic people to not feel so left out. They were probably like, who is this outsider without a lot of problems. ?

This recognition is the end of the illusory individual and its illusory requirements. Its freedom for no one ❤

Well the individual experienced within the body is an illusion and illusions don't die because there already not real.

But what if it's recognized there isn't a you in which could have a problem. ❤ That could be quite beneficial for No One ?

When that organism dies, there won't be even the slightest remembrance of a YOU or existence. So in that sense it doesn't matter already.

Non dual awareness or awakening is more of a recognition than a state or experience. When its clearly seen that the individual within the body isn't real, it's simultaneously recognized there aren't other individuals as well. Non-duality isn't about metaphorically smashing everything together into a oneness concept. Nothing changes from a visual perspective. In other words: Seeing that the individual within the body is an illusion, makes the idea of any real separation an impossibility. No real separate persons = no real separation. ❤

Yep, full scale identification with thinking.

The mind/ego projects the problem outside of itself as a distraction to keep itself intact. It's literally a subconscious survival tactic of the mind. As long as the focus is outwardly it can keep running the rat race.

It certainly is radical. Stacking nothing(labels) onto nothing, and it still ends up being nothing. In that sense THIS is utterly unknowable. It can't be pinned down because it's already everything & nothing. Its like trying to sit on a cloud, or catch a fart in the wind.

Well nothing is really a big deal but thoughts can sure make it feel so.

The cessation of self(so-called enlightenment) transcends the concept of enlightenment and samsara simultaneously because its clearly seen there was never anyone to be illusioned or disillusioned in the first place. It literally makes it not applicable. It's the Transcendence of Concepts such as Heaven or Hell good or bad right or wrong. Freedom is the best word. But for no one!! ❤

There aren't any real individuals debating and comparing concepts on this forum or anywhere else. There are just concepts mistakenly being identified with as 'MY' concepts or 'THEIR' concepts thus perpetuating the illusion of 'ME' and 'THEM'. Nothing vs Nothing... Everything vs Everything... Conditioning vs Conditioning... Points of view vs Points of view stemming from an illusory center point that never occurred but was experienced as real. The freedom longed for appears to be hidden by being everything. So in that sense there's nothing to do or find because everything is already whole, complete and perfectly THIS... there is nothing missing already. THIS can be recognized immediately because all there is is immediacy.

another way to say it might be, There is an experience of an individual that with enough searching can hopefully one day realize the truth and be set free.

No because the meaning of collapse is pointing to the recognition that the Duality/Separation never existed in the first place.

Yes, there pointing to the same freedom, but can be easily misunderstood by the 'ME'. Yep, no one detaches, defends, notices, or appreciates. ?

Correct, But there is a subconscious belief that adopting this outlook will benefit someone. THIS isn't about denial, detachment or adopting a "it doesn't matter" attitude. Its clearly recognized by no one that the beneficiary was an illusion. Nobody becomes enlightened, no one awakens. Nobody enters the gateless gate.

Yes, there are no ME's ? Its so under the nose that its already the case.(the cosmic joke) There is no one to convince already. Keep LOOKING at this...no one is getting very warm.

It's adorable yet gets old fast for who? There isn't a " "...?