VeganAwake

Yeah, I think a lot of it had to do with the language barrier and misunderstanding what he was trying to point to. The apparent issue is there are hundreds of concepts on this forum about what enlightenment is or isn't like and none of them are actually it because enlightenment is literally the end of conceptual personalized experience. Osho once said something along the lines of "having to force-feed someone a spoonful of sugar for them to understand what it really taste like". That kind of force-feeding obviously doesn't work too well with the regulations in place on this forum. ❤

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Sure bud ?

Enlightenment is the realization that the very individual attempting to reach, achieve or maintain it....isn't real. In other words it's wholeness recognizing the experience of separation wasn't valid. ❤

The "I am" that believes itself to be God isn't real and neither are it's beliefs. Illusory beliefs stemming from an illusory individual. ❤

That statement is pointing more towards how the experience of being a separate individual creates a self centered dream like or illusion like reality where everything becomes blanketed with meaning, purpose and value and always has something to do with the "ME". ❤

This is literally the definition of the dualistic dream story of separation. No one wakes up because no one was actually asleep....it was an illusion of self believing it needed to follow a spiritual path of detachment in order to wake up. It's so obvious that it seems hidden! ❤

@Nadosa That sounds like some very honest inquiry. It can really seem and feel like quite the mind f***. Sometimes it will just unfold at its own pace. ❤

If the body is imaginary try running full sprint into a brick wall while thinking about doing your 2021 tax return. I think it might be discovered it's a little bit more than just a mental hold or attachment. Enlightenment has nothing to do with detachment. Its the revelation there never was a real "YOU" attached & in which could become detached.... it throws the baby out with the bathwater sort of speak. ❤

@PepperBlossoms yeah it's kind of difficult to explain... there is apparent time, like being late for a job or an appointment or missing a train or bus. Basically the experience of being a separate individual creates a story which feels like an individual is actually learning and advancing or moving through time. Past memories and experiences and future thoughts and projections shape the reality the illusory individual seems to experience in the immediacy. These conditioned experiences and projections are like an overlay placed over top of reality making it seem like a very important meaningful something instead of an ordinary empty nothing (the dream story). ❤

It doesn't break anything in reality. It reveals there isn't anyone really alive in which could die in the first place. ❤

It's not perfect....it's just recognized to be total or complete. What its called makes no difference at all! ❤

Yep, There's no backwards or forwards. There is just the immediacy of what seems to be happening. It's not going anywhere and it didn't start anywhere. ❤

So called consciousness is just the bodily senses and thought process. It's not anything special at all. It only seems special to an imaginary individual that thinks it's on a spiritual journey. Time is an illusion or an effect within the experience of being a separate individual. ❤

There actually isn't a we to be all one. The individual is a misunderstanding or misidentification.(Not talking about the separate bodies, talking about the illusion of self experienced within the bodies) There is only EVERYTHING without any real separation whatsoever. No real separate individuals = No real separation. ❤

Yeah man no one is alive so no one dies....the experiencer already isn't real. Hence the phrase: "to die before you die" ❤

Just be aware Awakening doesn't necessarily mean that all attachments or long going habits will immediately fall away or even fall away at all. It's the realization that there isn't a real YOU within the body in which HAS these attachments/habits....it's an illusion of self. When this is recognized clearly this dense sense of self usually starts collapsing on its own.... or better yet its recognized to have NEVER been real from the start. There's really no need to keep taking a lot of psychedelics or what not. Awakening is wild & crazy enough without them. ❤

Yes there is a conditioned body with sensations, perceptions, thoughts, etc...but it's empty. There isn't a real YOU in that body experiencing said phenomenon. The experience of there being an experiencer is the completely unreal part. The one who is trying to become enlightened is the illusion of self. There already isn't a real separate individual to become enlightened in the first place. There doesn't seem to be a cause or a way to have this realization.... although it does seem to be more common after years of desperate hardcore seeking but that could just be an incorrect projection. ❤

Haha this was a good thread. Yes everything is already exactly what it is prior to any conditioned concepts about it being good/bad; right/wrong. "Nothing matters, everything is already whole complete and perfect....but why not try to make the world a better place". - Jim Newman ❤

There's nothing right or wrong with any practice or method. But if there was a real goal to spiritual practice it would be: The recognition that the very individual attempting to awaken is completely unreal. ❤

Tony Parsons Richard Sylvester Andreas Mueller Tim Cliss Jim Newman Kenneth Madden Because it's been recognized there that the individual which attempts to reach enlightenment isn't real. ❤

The idea is to recognize that this individual that endlessly seeks & inquires IS AN ILLUSION. ❤