Inliytened1

Yeah and im taking your point one step farther in posing the question- should we even be associating enlightenment with "attainment" or with how attached we are to our ego and physical body?. Does it make us any less God realized if we are unable to stand unphased while our leg is chopped off? Was Jesus unphased on the cross? Or should we say this is simply the ego trying to transcend itself - thus more ego - its a good question to ponder. Doesn't dissattaching from the ego lead to a rather miserable life or leave you dead period? There seems to he some type of demonization or bias against the ego going on here....

Personally I don't like the definition of enlightenment being free from suffering or in your example physical pain or loss of a part of your identity. So to answer your question yes, it doesn't change that you may be God realized, if indeed you are. Being God realized does not alleviate your fear of death or the death of a part of you. That is your ego and ego's survival instinct. So to overcome that - should you choose to (as it is relative) you are getting into the way the mind looks at things. Being God realized is becoming God itself, the ego dies. Then the ego comes back. So it's not the ego that is God realized it It's God. God realizes itself ? then the ego may return and fight against this. Still having fears and attachments it may or may not want to work through. Does it matter? Isn't that a relative choice of the ego as if it wants to embody Truth? When it actually becomes the Truth it will dissolve completely anyway. In other words the whole point of the ego is to feel fear and want to survive. That's why God imagined it was an ego and created this ego and its backstory in the first place. So it could forget it was God.

You are associating awakening or enlightenment with acting "high conscious (embodiment) and with "wisdom" and curing all of ailments, while yes it does increase your baseline and may do this for a while, eventually your baseline is not going to stay at that level...wisdom and embodiment is going to come more with life experience then with enlightenment. You can be enlightened as fuck and still be an alcoholic. Overcoming alcoholism is separate from being enlightened. In other words awakening doesn't cure you of illnesses or addictions. It may alleviate them for a period of years when you awake, but eventually they may come back because you don't stay at infinite levels of consciousness as a finite being - though for a period of time after awakening your consciousness can still be at a much higher baseline. @BipolarGrowth by the way are you still in chicago? That's where i live so hit me up on PM if you want. I'm sorry you suffer from Bipolar Disorder - its really a horrible disorder. I guess this country singer Luke Bell just took his own life from it because he went off his medications or something.

I highly recommend this guys podcasts. I think If you like Leo you will like this guy- he is just more about the science of the brain which is good for practical stuff and personal development. But a lot of your motivation levels are directly related to your baseline dopamine levels. Check out his episodes on dopamine and motivation.

Yeah it's like your lucid dreaming..although sometimes you can forget its a dream too. Oddly enough I've never been able to lucid dream at night- I always believe it is my reality during the dream because there is nothing to contrast it with so its total. Same here until you awaken - but then you come back to the dream - now lucid. Like I said its easy to loose the lucidity again but once you have it you can get it back at will.

@Naol excellent! Happy for you

In a sense that's true because if you understood what was being said here your entire reality would break apart. But hey you would be God realized ?

Again your conflating 1st and 2nd order. In 2nd order there are distinctions. There are differences. Such as red, green and blue. But at 1st order all of this collapses into pure oneness. But at that point you ARE the oneness. You are not some separate object or entity looking at the oneness because there are no distinctions. So to say red is red is to say there is nothing outside It to describe it. It is itself.

Are you asking me sincerely or are you playing games? If you are playing games take it elsewhere because that means you are not really interested in discovering Truth for yourself.

You are thinking in 2nd order as if red is "other". When we say red is red we mean at the level of Being. 1st order. In order to grasp red is red requires becoming red. At the level of Being all is One. Being is pure Infinity.

You can probably answer that yourself if you have ever awakened from a dream at night - which you have. It's identical. @Ry4n yeah.

2nd order will always be finite...but yes you can be closer to Infinity and farther away. Leo's videos move you closer to Infinity while Tate moves you farther away. Infinity being Truth. Yet the paradoxical nature of God also means that there is no farther or closer since those are relative. So you have to remember that Oneness is paradoxical and this is a feature not a bug. Here's the mindfuck - as you said it's like going meta on 2nd order because it's only paradoxical from 2nd order. This is because 2nd order cannot grasp 1st order in its totality - otherwise it would BE the totality and it wouldn't be 2nd order.

The human heart is imaginary. You are Intelligence and Love. There is no difference in these two words in actuality - we just make a distinction between them to try and break apart Truth into facets so our finite minds can grasp it.

You must become it. You ARE existence. You are speaking of (speaking - hmm) 2nd order. 1st order is Being. When we say red is red we are pointing to something. When we say something is itself we are pointing to something. There is a shift in Consciousness. Red isn't just red, red is you. You ARE red. Remember the phrase "Be the ball?" Well, I would contemplate that very seriously ?

Genetics and brain chemistry have a lot to do it. It also depends on if you are ready for God to reveal itself to you. The psychedelics are just the trigger but awakening was already in place for you. Same for meditation.

I guess you removed the double standard of our edits not being shown ? for a minute I thought I was demoted

I think the point is to say that everything is but an idea or concept within Consciousness. And you are fundamentally Consciousness itself - but you have fooled yourself into thinking you are one of the ideas (the ego). These ideas flow in and out of Consciousness but Consciousness always remains and it can imagine it is whatever it wants to. The thing is Consciousness attaches itself to being one of its own ideas and it becomes so fucking strong. Because it fully becomes it. And so it must be. But this is our need to survive and our need to hold onto being one particular idea forever. But these ideas are not permanent only that which imagines them is eternal. And that's what you are. There is no need to be sad about this but being sad is Consciousness' way of experiencing loss. And that is OK. Because as Pure Infinity it cannot lose itself.

Thanks man - and likewise!

Sorry I must have missed that. I can respect that.

Dreaming can include suffering but it is not suffering itself. You don't need to suffer in your dream the ego creates its own suffering but you transcend this through understanding. Awakening and becoming lucid also helps. I'm not saying awakened beings can't suffer - but they can see it for what it is and then rise above it. And don't bring up physical pain either - that is also imaginary, believe it or not. It too can be transcended. @Jake Chambers Good luck on your journey friend. We are One. One day you will look through my eyes and type these words. And one day i will be looking through yours.

Mods have this ability.

Sounds like you did have an awakening experience. It might have just not been full blown enlightenment - or you wouldnt have to ask... Perhaps the ego became fearful and did not surrender.

Agreed it just shows you how limited language is.

This is where language fails and you can only use second order (language) to describe first order and this will always not be IT it will be a second order finite description. But that's OK. Going back to descriptions - when I say you I don't mean the small self you I mean God/Truth/Being/Infinity.

You can't capture it bexause you ARE it. You are Being it. There is only Being or existence itself. Which is You. You are Absolute Truth. Perception of some experience is an illusion or a created separation between subject/object.