Emanyalpsid

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Posts posted by Emanyalpsid

  1. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    @Serotoninluv Your example of the illusion picture of the old and young woman is a helpful example. Thank you.

    The young woman and the old woman are both present formless in the picture. For the old woman or the young woman to form, the conditions have to be met (our mind has to interpret the lines in the picture). If one forms, the other stays formless, but is still there.

    But also, in the example with the flower; the flower (formless) is still present in the seed (form). The seed comes from the flower. The next flower (formless) is already present in the seed, because a new flower will grow from the seed.

    Just like a tree is still present in a piece of paper, but also the clouds are still present in that paper, and the soil, and the sun, etc.....everything around, before and after the piece of paper makes it the paper. And because the paper needs everything, it is nothing (empty). This holds for anything.

    This is dependent arising. Anything is dependent upon everything, therefore it is nothing (empty). This means nothing is really formed, because it is empty (cannot be defined) and nothing is formless (also the formless needs everything and is therefore empty).

    This dependent arising makes up the universe; space, time, matter, gravity, mass, energy, etc. Everything is dependent arising. Space is dependent upon time, matter is dependent upon gravity, life is dependent upon it's environment, senses are dependent upon the body, etc.. The funny thing is, that you can find this dependent arising in everything. Even in science they discovered this (Einstein's space-time and matter-gravity). Of course these are all concepts trying to define something in a seamless stream of reality, which we experience through the senses, but the mental fabrications arise out of the formless. Form is dependent upon formless and anything is dependent upon everything.

    I refer to reality here, what most of you guys refer to as spirituality consciousness. If the condition of space-time is not there, not the concept but the actual, there would be no consciousness or reality (universe). Consciousness is dependent upon the body. Even if you dream this holds, as dreams are consciousness, which is dependent upon your body, which is dependent upon the environment, which is dependent upon space-time. Of course you cannot prove this while you're dreaming, because you're dreaming. Our body proves our dependence on nature in every aspect, and us perceiving reality through it, through the 6 types of form consciousness; seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking.

    You can't identify a source of dependent arising, because the cause is dependent upon the effect. And because nothing (emptiness) can't be identified, let alone be defined, consequently a source can also not be identified or defined, besides the illusion/delusion/belief of it. There is no source, as nothing arises. Another reason for this to be a futile endeavour is that you are part of everything, so one can only look as far as one's eyes can see and it will only be what is seen. Just as you can only rationalize as far as the mind can think and it will only be what is thought.

    I believe this dependent arising is what you @Serotoninluv call Maya? The cause, or source, of our experience of the universe, or consciousness (depending on how you want to name it) in the flow of time.

    So, what is consciousness? Anything requires everything and therefore it is nothing (empty).

    What is? nothing is formed, because what is formed requires everything and is therefore empty (nothing). But this doesn't mean that nothing is not without form. It is already there, however it has not manifested itself, it is formless. But even this formless requires everything and is therefore nothing. So, nothing is also formless.

    If you realize this, there is nothing of you left, you dissolved the form and formless consciousness, as you realized it was nothing else than a mental fabrication to begin with; an attempt to identify with what you experience. Form consciousness developed out of formless consciousness. So, you can abandon form consciousness, but then you are not completely liberated as you still cling to formless consciousness, which is also part of dependent arising. Nothing, and nothing is not.

    Another funny thing is that when you realize this, there are no existential questions left. However, I experience they do still rise sometimes, up until now. I expect them to stop in the future, as the first question is always; What is? But because you already resolved this question, that is where the question immediately dissolves, you know the answer. The mind is very eager to identify with something.

    So you cling to something you call Maya, which you see as the source of all of this. But this source is beyond nature, that is why I called it supernatural. You identify with Maya, even if you do not think about Maya, it is there formless. You are Maya. You suffer from Maya, because in everything you see, hear, taste, smell, touch, and think, you identify Maya. And although it might be only small distinctions, they are there. 

    What is Maya?

    What is?

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  7. Posted

    4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

    The seed itself is both form and formless at the same time. Drop the formless flower part. It is a distraction. One could also say the seed is a formless gorilla, a formless paper clip or a formless coffee cup. That is all distraction. Just simply observe during your practice.

    Seeking questions and answers is a distraction in this context. Direct experience is deeper. Rest the mind and observe an object in meditation. Formlessness may be revealed. Let go of questions and seeking answers and allow being-ness to reveal itself. If it does, allow it to be without trying to figure it out and contextualize it. That's it.

    I formed the questions after the experience, in an attempt to see if others could experience the same. It seems they do not work for you, which is fine. The questions didn't seek answers in words, like I explained earlier. They were mere a starting point for an inquiry into the formless. Although the experience can be put in words, like I did in the topic I linked to. 

    Thanks for your messages. 

    I am still interested to see what @Mu_ got out of the inquiry though. Where did you go? What was the process?

  9. Posted

    1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

    This is an idea of formless within the construct of a timeline. Consider that what is actual right now is fornmless. The seed is formless right now (rather than the idea of the future flower is formless).

    I just used it as an example to explain that form and formless are simultaneous. You might have gotten confused if I referred to the seed as being both form and formless at the same time, but you already grasped this I see. The formless flower however is also there, if it is in an idea it has formed. The flower can also already be in formless consciousness.

    1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

    Look around you, everything is formless right now. Not in some conceptual idea of what may manifest in the future. It’s all formless right now. Everything you see right now is formless. Don’t add on any ideas and theories about future manifestations. Become aware of it in your own direct experience right now. 

    Yes you understand this. I just tried to find an example to explain things. I am doing my best here. :)

    1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

    Also consider the optical illusion drawing of the young woman and old woman. The drawing is not of a young woman that will manifest as an old woman in the future. Rather, she is both the young woman and old woman right now. The drawing itself is both young and old woman. Similarly, the seed itself is both form and formless right now. The idea of the future flower is irrelevant - it is just an imaginaty idea. The actual seed right now is both form and formless. 

    Now the question remains; what is the seed in form and formless?

  11. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    @Serotoninluv the key is in everything is nothing.

    The emptiness (nothing) of form, it needs everything. The flower cannot be defined, because it is also the rain, the clouds, the sun, the soil, etc (dependent arising). It needs everything and is thus nothing (empty).

    And the emptiness (nothing) of formless. It cannot be defined as it is formless, but it is there, you can identify it. The flower is already in the seed, the conditions have just not met for it to manifest (form). You know the flower is already there. The flower needs to grow first to manifest itself. But it is already there, formless. If someone asks you why you plant the seed, you will say; because a flower will grow (if the conditions are met). Thus, everything is also formless, therefore it is nothing.

    The actual growing of the flower is only its manifestation.

    You will see that you are everything and thus nothing, you will not identify with anything anymore, you dissolve.

    The last thing you cling to is formless consciousness, you can't define it, but it is there. You just need to identify it.

    The formless mental Fabrications are there. They are that which  thoughts are formed out of. Form consciousness comes from formless consciousness. They are the last fabrications of your mind you identify with (without you knowing it yet). 

    This is not to say that afterwards, they don't exist anymore. You just don't identify with them.

    An important prerequisite is knowing that form consciousness is sight, sound, smell, taste, touch and thought. 6 forms of consciousness. But you probably already knew this.

     

  12. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    @Emanyalpsid It seems that pointers are reinforcing the dynamics playing out in your mind.

    There are no dynamics playing in this mind. Stop projecting.

    Quote

    This can be counter-productive. It’s better to have a relaxed mind. 

    I don’t have an intuitive sense right now how to point without triggering the thought loops occuring in your mind. I don’t want to reinforce them. 

    Haha man oh man. What thought loops? Another projection. Who do you want to fool? What do you want to achieve?

    Besides, you are ignoring what I said. This makes no sense, so I will stop here.

  13. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    @Emanyalpsid You are interpreting post-rational pointers as mind games, ignorant and irrational. There is more to be revealed to you,

    1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

     

    No, I am just saying that not knowing is being ignorant. Meaning; you are ignorant. Your answer to the question 'what is', is; I don't know. So ignorance is. That is you. So you are not dissolved, just ignorant. This forms when you say I don't know, it is a manifestation. Which is fine if you are happy, but it is not Nirvana.

    In Nirvana the answer to that question is something in the lines of; nothing is and nothing is not. Which means; nothing is formed and nothing is formless. Poof, gone.

    There is more to be revealed to you,

    I have spent 1,5 years in the dimension between non-duality and Nirvana (not saying you need all this time, but I progressed quite fast I think), but a month ago you were still in non-duality. You seem to dwell somewhere beyond non-duality, although I cannot pinpoint where.

  15. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    Oh man, stop these mind games. You know what I am asking. 

    With how come I mean; what was the process from that you thought you knew, to you don't know what you are? Or have you forgotten that?

    I have explained the process which led to the dissolving of my existence. I know what I am not.

    Being ignorant is not Nirvana.

     

     

  18. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    I love it when post-rational giggles arise. They are so pure ?

    I am beginning to doubt you are on the same page. I have four things to assume this. 1. You thought small distinctions are still there and questions do never come at this point. 2. You thought I am still in seeking. 3. You think not knowing is the answer. 4. You did not post your inquiry results.

  20. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

    @Emanyalpsid  Its all good. ♥️ ? 

    Congrats! ?

    Edit; I also see your point now. I was focused on answers in the lines of the words I used. That is why I misinterpretated the words from Mu_ on a first glance. Consequence of the mind working with them so much I guess. Thanks for the pointer! 

  21. Posted

    3 hours ago, Mu_ said:

    In that particular moment there are no questions and answers, and all distinctions collapse, but that doesn't invalidate something happening or something never not always being the case.  Which is were questioning and finding out into ones nature and what this is all about comes in, perhaps you could say from "what is" itself.

    Indeed, this seems to be the first question and therefore the last question to dissolve or resolve as you will.

  22. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    3 hours ago, Mu_ said:

    You keep narrowing down what I'm saying into partials that disintegrate my actual point/s.  I've done the inquiry and it can reveal Truth, but I'm also saying that its not the whole picture.....and yet paradoxically it kinda is :)

    Sorry, for responding this late, the conversation with Serotoninluv took my focus, as I needed to contemplate quite deeply. Because of that, I didn't look well into your post and completely misinterpretated it. Sorry for that. I re-read your post and it is exactly what you wrote. Indeed, the questions look simple, but the inquiry goes deep. It is everything and nothing and the whole process in between, like you already said.

    And it is indeed quite the paradox upon realizing.  :)

    Thanks for your feedback and for taking the inquiry! Can you describe what you went through to where you are now, or where you are not?:)

  23. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    23 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    @Emanyalpsid What I am pointing to is not being revealed at this time. It may reveal itself at another time or within another context.

    Ah, but it is there formless, you just can't identify it yet. If you can identify it, you can investigate it. 

    I know you are trying to find something which you can identify with in me. What is seeking and what does it try to identify with?

    Okey, have it your way then. Thanks for the connect.

     

  24. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    This is one of the subtle beliefs I was referring to. 

    Ah you are trying to project something on me. That is worth investigating.

    4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    You seem to be at peace expressing that you have completed the final journey. Are you equally at peace expressing that you have not completed the final journey? 

    What journey? I never came and will never go.

  25. Posted · Edited by Emanyalpsid

    6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    I think trying to answer these questions would be a distraction at this time. It seems like you are exploring, inquiring, processing and integrating at deeper levels and I don't want to distract from that.

    I posed the questions to you, for you to answer for yourself. Here there is no one to explore anymore, I already completed the final inquiry.

    Maybe interesting for your progress; I myself dwelled in a state beyond non-duality for some time, where I was aware of dependent arising, but I was still attached to consciousness on a formless level.