Emanyalpsid

I am following a study at an independent institution in Germany to become a health advisor and I am currently studying for my final exam. This study is based upon research into nutrition and the effects on the body over longer periods of time, mainly done in the first and early second half of the 20th century. Based upon the outcome of these researches, a doctor (Dr. Bruker), who lead multiple hospitals, ordered a raw whole food nutrition, based upon these findings, in his hospitals and showed only positive results in thousands of patients over multiple decades. Why haven't you heard about this yet? Because regular medicine does not acknowledge these researches, as most of them were not done on humans but mainly on animals. Why on animals? Because 1 rat year equals 30 human years, so the effects of different types of nutrition can be measured in a shorter period and over mutiple generations (later I will show why this is important). Also, humans will not participate in a research which could damage their health. Different types of nutritions were given to the test animals which often resulted in severe diseases or even death. Of course animal testing could seem ethically wrong, but in this case to me it seems legit, as it was not used for cosmetic reasons but only for our health and could practically not be done on humans. These researches will also not be repeated as the findings were properly documented, clear and conclusive. Another reason why you haven't heard about this yet: Healthcare does not really care about your health. Healthcare is an industry which gets its money from paying patients. If there are no patients when everybody is healthy, the industry will vanish. Also, the pharmacies and food industry live from the existing situation. That is why in hospitals they focus on symptom treatment. Who would fund a broad research over decennia on healthy nutrition on humans? The food industry definetely not, the big corporations know that their products are unhealthy. You would say the government, sadly the government, mainly the liberal side, is influenced by pharmacies and the food industry. This research would also be very cost expensive and would not yield short-term results. This is also the reason why the results on the patients of Dr. Bruker are not documented in a research and the research it is based upon is almost forgotten. Therefore, he founded this institution to clear up the people by educating them. I will try to share a summarized but complete overview of the important elements of the study, which will present a holistic view on nutrition and the effects on the human body. I am not English, so please forgive my language mistakes. I will write everything in different posts. The website of the institution https://gesundheitsberater.de/ Sadly everything is only in German, also the books are only in German. That is why I will share the information with you. Why do I do this? It will help me learn for my exam and I can share this knowledge with you.

@Serotoninluv Your example of the illusion picture of the old and young woman is a helpful example. Thank you. The young woman and the old woman are both present formless in the picture. For the old woman or the young woman to form, the conditions have to be met (our mind has to interpret the lines in the picture). If one forms, the other stays formless, but is still there. But also, in the example with the flower; the flower (formless) is still present in the seed (form). The seed comes from the flower. The next flower (formless) is already present in the seed, because a new flower will grow from the seed. Just like a tree is still present in a piece of paper, but also the clouds are still present in that paper, and the soil, and the sun, etc.....everything around, before and after the piece of paper makes it the paper. And because the paper needs everything, it is nothing (empty). This holds for anything. This is dependent arising. Anything is dependent upon everything, therefore it is nothing (empty). This means nothing is really formed, because it is empty (cannot be defined) and nothing is formless (also the formless needs everything and is therefore empty). This dependent arising makes up the universe; space, time, matter, gravity, mass, energy, etc. Everything is dependent arising. Space is dependent upon time, matter is dependent upon gravity, life is dependent upon it's environment, senses are dependent upon the body, etc.. The funny thing is, that you can find this dependent arising in everything. Even in science they discovered this (Einstein's space-time and matter-gravity). Of course these are all concepts trying to define something in a seamless stream of reality, which we experience through the senses, but the mental fabrications arise out of the formless. Form is dependent upon formless and anything is dependent upon everything. I refer to reality here, what most of you guys refer to as spirituality consciousness. If the condition of space-time is not there, not the concept but the actual, there would be no consciousness or reality (universe). Consciousness is dependent upon the body. Even if you dream this holds, as dreams are consciousness, which is dependent upon your body, which is dependent upon the environment, which is dependent upon space-time. Of course you cannot prove this while you're dreaming, because you're dreaming. Our body proves our dependence on nature in every aspect, and us perceiving reality through it, through the 6 types of form consciousness; seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking. You can't identify a source of dependent arising, because the cause is dependent upon the effect. And because nothing (emptiness) can't be identified, let alone be defined, consequently a source can also not be identified or defined, besides the illusion/delusion/belief of it. There is no source, as nothing arises. Another reason for this to be a futile endeavour is that you are part of everything, so one can only look as far as one's eyes can see and it will only be what is seen. Just as you can only rationalize as far as the mind can think and it will only be what is thought. I believe this dependent arising is what you @Serotoninluv call Maya? The cause, or source, of our experience of the universe, or consciousness (depending on how you want to name it) in the flow of time. So, what is consciousness? Anything requires everything and therefore it is nothing (empty). What is? nothing is formed, because what is formed requires everything and is therefore empty (nothing). But this doesn't mean that nothing is not without form. It is already there, however it has not manifested itself, it is formless. But even this formless requires everything and is therefore nothing. So, nothing is also formless. If you realize this, there is nothing of you left, you dissolved the form and formless consciousness, as you realized it was nothing else than a mental fabrication to begin with; an attempt to identify with what you experience. Form consciousness developed out of formless consciousness. So, you can abandon form consciousness, but then you are not completely liberated as you still cling to formless consciousness, which is also part of dependent arising. Nothing, and nothing is not. Another funny thing is that when you realize this, there are no existential questions left. However, I experience they do still rise sometimes, up until now. I expect them to stop in the future, as the first question is always; What is? But because you already resolved this question, that is where the question immediately dissolves, you know the answer. The mind is very eager to identify with something. So you cling to something you call Maya, which you see as the source of all of this. But this source is beyond nature, that is why I called it supernatural. You identify with Maya, even if you do not think about Maya, it is there formless. You are Maya. You suffer from Maya, because in everything you see, hear, taste, smell, touch, and think, you identify Maya. And although it might be only small distinctions, they are there. What is Maya? What is?

I opened this topic to see if someone is willing/daring to test this inquiry. To understand the foundation of the inquiry, you must be beyond the subject-object consciousness (that is why I wrote 'experienced' seekers), which means you must know that we are not looking for words, although the realizations can be put in words. So the point from which you venture should be, that you are left with consciousness and nothing else. Whether you call this consciousness Brahman, non-duality, or absolute infinity, doesn't matter, it has no name, but it is there. You experience it. The inquiry has two questions on which you should find an answer. The order of the questions is sequential, so you start with the first question and if you have an answer on that, you start with the second question. If you have completed the inquiry you will understand why it is final. So you look into this consciousness without a name, you don't look for a word in thought. You look into the experience, what is happening. You can describe it and summarize it to form an answer. The first question; What is conciousness? The last question; What is? If you didn't find the right answer to the first question, you will end up back at the first question if you answer the second question. Material to help you with the inquiry can be found here; https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/30407-liberation-from-samsara/ I am glad to help in the best way I can.

I see that I in writing the first post, I wrote a rather vague description. I referred there to "formless manifestations", with that I meant that the formless is present in other form manifestations. Form is a manifestation of the formless.

Holy fuck, I was so close the whole time. Consciousness is a manifestation of reality (this I already knew). But if you see through the illusion/mental fabrication that consciousness is even there, you are freed from the cycle of rebirth. Nothing really is (nothing is formed) and nothing really is not (nothing is not formed). If consciousness is manifested in a human body, then rebirth occurs. This rebirth occurs because the remains of a body, after it 'dies', are given back to the earth, from which new life and therefore new consciousness grows. That is what you are conscious of, a continuous cycle of rebirth of consciousness. First, before you start with enlightenment work, you think you die when your body dies. After you see through the self as an illusion/mental fabrication, you are left with consciousness (beyond the subject-object distinction) .You see that consciousness of the universe constantly reappears (has a rebirth), but consciousness was also an illusion/mental fabrication and rebirth also. So no rebirth, as consciousness never really was, it was just a formless manifestation which never really was. Nothing is (nothing is formed) and nothing is not (nothing is not formed = nothing is formless). Holy meatballs.. Only through unwholesome thought, form and formless manifestations arise. Form and formless come together. Everything is indeed dependent arising (manifestation). I just got this insight and I have not fully grasped it yet. Will need to contemplate on its implications. After entering the eight Jhana in a meditation, I dwelled for almost 1,5 year in this state I already misinterpreted for Nirvana. Finally, full enlightenment. I was not fully enlightened after all, although I was really close. It just happened and the shift in feeling and perception is only minimal, which seems logical as there was almost no identification left, but the implications are huge. The video from Thich Nhat Hanh, which I shared recently got me there or here, that's for sure. Bless him, without that video I would probably never even have come to this realization in this life, at least not without meeting a Buddha/Ahrat. It's a small step but a giant leap. Here is the video, it has quite a long intro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms6EylTW-2o&t=103s Sorry for all the times I pretended to be fully enlightened, I was wrong. I was quite close, but not fully there yet. I was chained by consciousness. Although I penetrated the nature of reality through consciousness, I had not let consciousness go yet. It is tricky because you need consciousness to penetrate through reality, but after that you also need to let consciousness go. But you don't see this, because it is the instrument to figure out the dependent nature of reality. But this insight into the Dependent nature of reality is a prerequisite to be able to let consciousness go..... It is what is left of you, without it you would not have been able to figure this all out, so afterwards you have trouble letting it go because it has manifested itself so deeply. Okay, let's see if I can get some sleep lol. Have to freaking work tomorrow.

You keep your Maya. I don't need it. There is no me. You say my experience aint it, but you can't explain why. You just refer to Maya. That is like the same as a christian would refer to God. That game would also yield no winners.

Ah the supernatural.. Thanks anyway.

Because you posted it here, I watched a bit. He explains non-duality. That is the starting point for this inquiry, although insight into dependent arising is also needed.

You seem to want to tell/ me something. What ain't what? What is it you think I seem to not have realized? Until now I followed your story, but it didn't show me anything I didn't already know.

I formed the questions after the experience, in an attempt to see if others could experience the same. It seems they do not work for you, which is fine. The questions didn't seek answers in words, like I explained earlier. They were mere a starting point for an inquiry into the formless. Although the experience can be put in words, like I did in the topic I linked to. Thanks for your messages. I am still interested to see what @Mu_ got out of the inquiry though. Where did you go? What was the process?

Exactly. So what are you?

I just used it as an example to explain that form and formless are simultaneous. You might have gotten confused if I referred to the seed as being both form and formless at the same time, but you already grasped this I see. The formless flower however is also there, if it is in an idea it has formed. The flower can also already be in formless consciousness. Yes you understand this. I just tried to find an example to explain things. I am doing my best here. Now the question remains; what is the seed in form and formless?

Thanks for taking the inquiry and for your feedback. And if it is everything, it is also..?

@Serotoninluv the key is in everything is nothing. The emptiness (nothing) of form, it needs everything. The flower cannot be defined, because it is also the rain, the clouds, the sun, the soil, etc (dependent arising). It needs everything and is thus nothing (empty). And the emptiness (nothing) of formless. It cannot be defined as it is formless, but it is there, you can identify it. The flower is already in the seed, the conditions have just not met for it to manifest (form). You know the flower is already there. The flower needs to grow first to manifest itself. But it is already there, formless. If someone asks you why you plant the seed, you will say; because a flower will grow (if the conditions are met). Thus, everything is also formless, therefore it is nothing. The actual growing of the flower is only its manifestation. You will see that you are everything and thus nothing, you will not identify with anything anymore, you dissolve. The last thing you cling to is formless consciousness, you can't define it, but it is there. You just need to identify it. The formless mental Fabrications are there. They are that which thoughts are formed out of. Form consciousness comes from formless consciousness. They are the last fabrications of your mind you identify with (without you knowing it yet). This is not to say that afterwards, they don't exist anymore. You just don't identify with them. An important prerequisite is knowing that form consciousness is sight, sound, smell, taste, touch and thought. 6 forms of consciousness. But you probably already knew this.

There are no dynamics playing in this mind. Stop projecting. Haha man oh man. What thought loops? Another projection. Who do you want to fool? What do you want to achieve? Besides, you are ignoring what I said. This makes no sense, so I will stop here.

No, I am just saying that not knowing is being ignorant. Meaning; you are ignorant. Your answer to the question 'what is', is; I don't know. So ignorance is. That is you. So you are not dissolved, just ignorant. This forms when you say I don't know, it is a manifestation. Which is fine if you are happy, but it is not Nirvana. In Nirvana the answer to that question is something in the lines of; nothing is and nothing is not. Which means; nothing is formed and nothing is formless. Poof, gone. There is more to be revealed to you, I have spent 1,5 years in the dimension between non-duality and Nirvana (not saying you need all this time, but I progressed quite fast I think), but a month ago you were still in non-duality. You seem to dwell somewhere beyond non-duality, although I cannot pinpoint where.

The same goes for you, being ignorant is not Nirvana. Mu_ got there I believe.

Oh man, stop these mind games. You know what I am asking. With how come I mean; what was the process from that you thought you knew, to you don't know what you are? Or have you forgotten that? I have explained the process which led to the dissolving of my existence. I know what I am not. Being ignorant is not Nirvana.

Again, how come?

You can find my results in the linked topic. But it is not about me here is it?

I am beginning to doubt you are on the same page. I have four things to assume this. 1. You thought small distinctions are still there and questions do never come at this point. 2. You thought I am still in seeking. 3. You think not knowing is the answer. 4. You did not post your inquiry results.

How come you don't know this?

Congrats! ? Edit; I also see your point now. I was focused on answers in the lines of the words I used. That is why I misinterpretated the words from Mu_ on a first glance. Consequence of the mind working with them so much I guess. Thanks for the pointer!

Indeed, this seems to be the first question and therefore the last question to dissolve or resolve as you will.

Sorry, for responding this late, the conversation with Serotoninluv took my focus, as I needed to contemplate quite deeply. Because of that, I didn't look well into your post and completely misinterpretated it. Sorry for that. I re-read your post and it is exactly what you wrote. Indeed, the questions look simple, but the inquiry goes deep. It is everything and nothing and the whole process in between, like you already said. And it is indeed quite the paradox upon realizing. Thanks for your feedback and for taking the inquiry! Can you describe what you went through to where you are now, or where you are not?