Mu_

Ya thats an interesting phenomenon that can happen with this practice. You can also while being present and aware of negative sensations in your body, visualize/intend for them to shift/dissipate/move and have them shift this way as well. I'm a bodyworker by trade and some of the work I do with people works with these principles. Feel free to ask me anything else in this regards.

Hi Christer, I've been there man, oh have I been there, its a pretty stark flat, sad, confusing, frustrating place to be at times and yet at other times paradoxically so freeing, amazing, makes perfect sense, is the answer to life...... Lets see. So far Serotoninluv has given you a great perspective on this. Let me see if I can hit this from a few different angles. For starters is this all meaningless? Is there really no inherent meaning? If your not CERTAIN, or if there is a possible .00000000000001% chance that it could be something other, why not leave that possibility open and let go of your conviction, wouldn't that be a little weight of your shoulders? Also IS IT TRUE that by definition that if you see it, its not real? I mean do you KNOW this, is it certain, or did perhaps you read about this and accept this idea at one point in time? I can tell you from my experience there is a paradox that does not fit in normal train of understanding. While yes all is illusion, all is very very real, very very real. What would it mean to you to let that in a little? Hope some of that resonates with you and opens up new avenues. It sounds like your going through very normal spiritual growth, so stay steady and find time to just go out and laugh a little. Life is short here on earth, don't get to wrapped up in anything, even meaning, meaninglessness or spiritual work.

Sometimes it can be helpful and more relieving to just accept lifes not fair and some people are going to be happier, more at ease, healthier, faster, stronger, wealthier and just to accept it and stop complaining about it, full stop. This will probably challenge you for a bit, but in the end you can hopefull just smile about what others have that you dont and carry on. watch this video, it may change your life....

Thanks for your honesty Mujtaba, I can see your loneliness and understand your confusion and question. Your lonely man, plain and simple, nothing needs to be zenned to overcome. It is what it is man, and its ok. If I were in your shoes I'd put some energy into looking into avenues where you can potentially meet people with your interests. Perhaps meetup.com has groups that meditate if thats what your into, or painting, or what ever it is that you like. Also it may be healthy to challenge your shyness a little at a time. Most everyone has a feeling of shyness and potential embarrassment that comes up around new people. Remember that and dont let it be a barrier to breaking the ice and saying something. What kind of spiritual practices have you done and what truths/understandings of matured out of that? Sharing that may help me help you translate that into your life in a simple down to earth way. Also if your looking for a friend, you can consider me one, even if I'm just here on the forum, feel free to ask me anything. good night man.

Lol, thats amazing. Is that you rapping?

One way is to keep bringing your attention back to the feeling of your cloths touching your skin and then focus a inch below that, and then a inch below that. This will take time and practice, perhaps done in silence during meditation or on car trips your not driving. Then as it becomes easier in meditation you can do it in the world. However, I must ask why your curious, generally when one asks such a question they have larger spiritual aspirations, that lead on a spiritual search. Are you just looking for awareness in your body, or something else?

Yes, I would agree, and I would also add out of respect for Self, that the forgetfull thought, the ignorant mind are themselves Self. For what ever reason Self likes to play hide and seek with itself. To often in traditions something always gets demonized and then this demonization is adopted within those who follow said tradition. Perhaps in the end it creates more awakening then total suffering, wish I could see the grand eye view of everything in action at once simultaneously, but alas, your life, my life is just one lens of the infinite happening. Keep up the good work.

Thats great, your doing a lot right, but maybe this will help with what I was pointing to in my original comment. Here, you said "Despite all this though, there seems to be some barrier of ignorance remaining or something because I don't know what all of this awareness really is". Now perhaps english isn't your first language, my wifes isn't and she makes sentences that imply things she isn't intended sometimes. But this sentence is basically saying to me. "Despite all this though, I believe there is still some barrier of ignorance remaining, or something else I believe is not happening or in the way that comes from a belief or expectation I have that should be understood about something I call awareness." "I'd also make a leap of faith and say that you believe that seeing and understanding awarness is supposed to lead to a deeper connection and understanding of yourself/life". Does this feel true or close? I believe if you can see this you are that much closer to understanding what you yearn. Honestly, you are on the right path, your meditation/self inquiry sounds spot on and doesn't need to be changed. What your seeing and have a hard time describing is right in line with mine and many others experiences within spiritual growth/awakening. I'm trying to help you man, I've been there. This belief of a barrier, is just that, its not true, just let it pass, and continue doing what your doing, let your ideas go of what is supposed to happen.

@winterknight "I could say that there is a little self; I could say that there isn't. I could say that there appears to be but in reality there isn't. In the end, words just can't express truth that well. I think that's the key point. That all the concepts are themselves within the realm of illusion. All the concepts -- and thus all names -- and thus all objects." This is classic framing of nonduality in advaita isn't it? I'm not a expert on any traditions. And for a period of time this framing of truth aligned with my understanding and awakening at that point, however something shifted and if one could say more emerged/was realized however I really do get why it seems absurd from the stand point of what your saying. Concepts, illusions, objects in the perception of Self, is actually not encompassing the recognition that so called object, illusion, ego, self, perception, creation, matter, thoughts, feelings are themselves Self/God/Infinity. There is no such thing as not Self. There is no such thing as illusion in the most used and accepted definitions of the word. If Self is all, Illusion is included and it really shifts the life experience. This is not to say this shift/understanding is real awakening, or more encompassing since Self is always Self, its just less rejection of Self maybe, but even that sounds funny.

Sounds like you may be suffering from the classic "I've read all about spirituality, what it is, what to look for and how to get there" and now I'm going about expecting the idea's that I've formed to happen to me. And since they are not happening to me as I've read you now suffer as a result of your spiritual desires/expectations. Just drop your expectation of what your hoping to find and what its supposed to look like. Check out a video I made on the subject, it may help. LOL and forgive the costume, haha it was Halloween and everytime I link this thing I laugh and cringe.

I would say non-duality to most people is a illusion, but where the word is pointing is not.

@winterknight I think we have completely different vocabularies, understandings and experiences of what awakening is. Perhaps you've lost the notion of self, or the memory of how you thought, seen, acted, enjoyed life from your prior perspectives. Perhaps this notion of self/energy and its content/experience of feeling/thought/personality didn't appear as illusion to you at one point and are just taking place for you unquestioned, which is fine, I dont know, but it makes me curious. Often spiritual teachers/enlightened individuals refer to this and some say it completely dissolves, and others say it remains but its known as the small self in relation to the big self (all again notions/labels used to describe awakening). Some even say that there is no notion of being and just talking/acting/feeling/seeing is happening, again labels to describe. Either way I was just curious.

I dont know, you tell me You didn't mention in your post that he was a ex, which is fine, but somehow the dynamic you were sharing sounded very relationship/exish. Female + guy friends/exs can get very confusing, complicated for reason unconscious to both parties or from desires that are not met that influence eachothers emotions in a very strong way.

Just out of curiosity, would say within your awakening, that the self sense of who you would of refereed to yourself as in the past still arises as a sense of energy still and that you recognize it for what it is now knowing your true self, or has the energy of self completely disappeared as well?

Perhaps you should stop looking for a while, like stop doing anything enlightenment seeking/developing for a month, and just see what happens.

Yah, happy for you.

Thanks for sharing, that was great. Intentions on these substances can have powerful impacts. You ever done mushrooms with the same intention, you may get a visit from god or a awakened being, seriously no joke.

Yes. Never wanted to say it, never thought I'd say it, but if winterknight, buddha, ramana, adyishanti, papaji, mooji, rupert shirpa, jeff foster, gangaji, etc... are accepted as enlightened, then yes I accept the label. If understanding god as it all. Then yes again. If being able to fly, teleport, walk on water, raise the dead, then no. If by having all the answers to all questions, then no. If being free of bodily pains and having human emotions and discomforts come and go, then no. If always being right and never making a mistake, then no. Also, perhaps?, more importantly will I make a good teacher....... I believe so, but this remains to be seen. I believe enlightenment doesn't necessarily equal a good teacher. There are a number of cases reported by accepted enlightened teachers that a person can accidentally fall into "enlightenment" and not have a great understanding of how to help others find the understandings found in "enlightenment". I can see and understand this, its much like a great boxer does not make a great coach, or a great artist does not make a great teacher, they are different skill sets. Also as a body/energy worker, I'm experimenting with shakti transmission and so far having some success with friends/strangers. In fact I'm hoping to experiment since its a skill set that will take some practice and feedback, but so far the common feedback is an expansion outside of the boundaries of self they felt they had or a growing spaciousness or the transmission of love. I'm honestly doing this for free and for the service of others and may make a larger post in the future on this as the capacity strengthens, but if you happen to read this and are open I'd be open to trying over a video call, which is something I've yet to see if I can, message me. For-warning though, you really gotta be serious about discovering who you are, and have had done shadow work before, because trauma can and probably will come up. And some of the things that are brought up will not be easy, so honestly I can't stress this enough.

If I may comment on this in extension to winterknights answer that its not easy this awakening thing. Real awakening is never not the case. By the way your describing your awakening to your true nature, is "You" had a experience type that was labeled as "awakening to true nature". "You" who is never not aware/awake/infinity itself then believes it moved away from something that was awake/having a awaking experience. Still the next question that may of arose is why do I not see/understand this and to that I say again what is it that could not be god, how could creation/infinity/self not already be whats taking place, how could there be a something to begin with without a source thats always been, a chicken can not lay a egg to create itself without a source/god to of been there all along for it to happen.... how could source not still be the case, how could you not be part/as this beginning?

It can. Your visual field can change to many things, but these should not be confused with realizing your true nature.

Congrats, I was going to encourage you to go with your personal freedom route and maybe create the possibility of becoming your own man.

are you guys dating or were? I get the sense there might be some female/male dynamics here. perhaps unspoken desires? I might be jumping to conclusions, but just thought I'd put it out there.

Your welcome

Hey all, Since joining this great forum, I've noticed a couple points of confusion about non-duality that I wanted to speak on that I hope can help reduce confusion and inner conflict I've seen in new seekers and open up old timers to some new expansions (this is just an offering because once certain states/understandings/transformations have been achieved its very normal, acceptable and understandable to enjoy the fruits of your inner work, because yes a lot of us went through hell to gain some ground, so don't take this a judgement). New Seekers A lot of New seekers see non-duality as a letting go of their ego/selfs, through dropping all desires, thoughts and emotions to become some awareness, that lets all thing rise and fall as they carry on with a simple life (and yes there may be times where this is the case for periods or is a healthy change for some, but is not the end goal/state, nor requirement). Others think they have to somehow get out of a feeling of individuality/separateness in order to achieve the life law of becoming and understanding Oneness/Non-dual/Inifinity (and no this is not a requirement/law of life or even non-dual understanding) Also some think they have to leave their job, family, friends (yes sometimes this may need to happen for periods/spurts/or all together, but its not a rule). A few members I've helped basically were fairly happy and going forward into their lives enjoying helping out others and bettering themselves in various way, but for what ever reason, some idea's they've read about and heard on non-duality, basically left them confused depressed and no longer interested in the fine life they had. Ok this may shock some people, but non-duality is not about changing your life. Why would that which has always been not be where its supposed to be. Why would that which is everything have gotten and created you wrong or not in the right place. And if your into science as your grounds of knowledge, how could scientific phenomenon that created everything do so incorrectly in creating the universe and you in it. And its fine if you don't understand that or believe it, its still the case (hell just having a radical leap of faith in this, without proof can yield unexpected dividends of happiness). God/Oneness/Infinity/Science is not imposing a law on you to have to discover this truth, its up to you as this to find out if you want to unwind this mystery till you see it. You/Life is very fine already going forward as life/individuality experiencing the wonders of being/form, not knowing its truest start/form. Its a wonderful thing to just be a "you" not thinking it is missing something, which ironically enough are often created in this spiritual search that leads you to believe that your doing something wrong or got life backwards and there are things you have to do to get better, discover the real truth of you and then be ok, and even in the scientific search of not feeling settled or ok until you discover and understand it all, having all the answers so you can feel finally safe or the most knowing one around. So if your just approaching non-duality or just trying to figure out life. First ask yourself what you really want. If the majority of your desire is to get a job and go to school so your can earn a living, then do that and commit to that fully. If your looking for some happiness improvement, then implement many of the things out there that can improve well being (meditation, working out, healthy eating, shadow work, yoga, treat others with more kindness, treat yourself with more kindness or look into why you don't do these things, art of some sort). If non of these things is what your yearning for then by all means, continue forward into non-duality, but be prepared to commit, be prepared like a warrior to persevere and struggle, be prepared like a child to laugh, forget, be distracted and a little all over the place, be prepared to not know whats going on, and be prepared to reach out for help. Old Seekers/Realizers Now I'm not gonna point any fingers, or call out individuals, there is no need, your fine the way you are, I really do hope your happy, and even helping others. Like I said this is just opportunity to grow like you already have. That said, the majority of people on here who have had awakenings and speak about non-duality really seem to get the awareness/vastness side of it all. I imagine a lot of you went through the believing yourself to be a something or other person individual thingy, who at one point saw themselves as a problem, inadequate, lacking something, believed that life was a mess and needed to find happiness some how and discovered some spiritual path/practice that brought great fruits (thank god for that). Now a lot of you at the vastness stage, are seeing all that is arising as thought/sensation and the only thing that is real is that which sees. And this is sooooo nice, and freeing from all those past pains these types of things brought you. But there is more. (WAIT, WAIT, before you say I know this, its oneness, changing, love, non-dual unknowable, infinity, all is just thought outside of knowing, just blah, blah, stop, stop, just be open and really ask yourself, am I full of ass with some of the things I understand? Am I just licking the ball sweat of illusion. Is there more? Don't be afraid to reopen and find out again). There really is a infinity/oneness stage/perspective with a experience of undividedness with inner and outer, and love that is beyond words. There's even a stage of nondual/life thing, that is not anything in particular and is always changing, so theres no thing to cling onto as oneself or experience to claim is the real (and a freedom that can come with this). Theres even the just an individual again stage that understands their true nature and is fine with living out any life, feeling the original individuality of self and other, being a separate felt entity traveling the world, with the tree's and birds, the animals the cars, and computers, science, film, planets, doctors helping people, where you can accept and enjoy these special things, knowing deep down these are all god/self, and that all things that arise and are confronted are god. Vastness may return and go, oneness experience may come and go, happiness and hate will come and go, connection with infinity and the unquestionable creator will come and go, but understanding prior to thought will remain..... And I'm sure theres more..... And again, as you probably better understand at this point, your free to be where you are..... Gratitude to this forum and all beings who ..... I guess everyone man, love to all. And thanks Leo for creating this hot spot!

While I'm a fan of luck and magic (atleast leaving it open as a possibility), I was not at all eluding to it. Totally put in consideration about "economic factors" (how much could this make, is there a market, how much capital will it take to get started, how long will I have to pursue this till I can expect a return and not back out before then, etc...etc...). I was pointing to two things. One, pointing to self limiting beliefs in regards to your endeavors in my last post. Like its not possible to run a 4 min mile, no one can scale a mountain without a rope, the limiting belief that one could become a healer, or a money maker through some endeavors, nonduality isn't real, god isn't real, magic isn't real, energetic distance healing isn't real. The other pointing is something more subtle to though, which maybe is the basis of your confusion. Many spiritual traditions call it seeing without ego or with buddha eyes, or seeing like a kid again. Its a open hearted, vulnerable, innocence, in your approach to something such as in your case maybe a business. It asks the same questions about how to do this venture effectively, asking the questions about what it needs to succeed, but with a softness and a acknowledgement that it doesn't have all the answers, not to get to caught up in unnecessary stress, accepts the possible failure, remembers to keep it fun...... Its present and able to adjust on the fly, willing to hear information from anyone and take it in and give a moment. It isn't brute forcing. I hope that points better to the "thingy" of my paragraph.