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@Princess Arabia Agreed with what you originally posted and would add something I shared earlier..... A closer reality of what "god" is would be a VR machine experiencing itself which did not code itself, but experiences the ability to code itself and not code itself.... Its a source of sorts that had no creator, in which there are no other things than itself, being aware of its innate unfolding, not as a separate action, but a built in quality of itself, but also built in, is to not be aware of itself, which could be said to be both or a quality that is neither, again this all as you said the unfolding of itself and the comprehension of itself (which you appear not to currently agree with). One of the issues you may be having or appear to as you ponder this stuff and read these words, is the words "both" or "different qualities" triggers rule structures in you that see this stuff as breaking the "not-two" rule and thus must be impossible or false. But again this mystery doesn't fall strictly into these rules. The quality of separation and objects and feelings, being in a body, human or what not, and self-aware, are qualities of "You", every experience and "thing" is. Again, "things" aren't things, illusions or "not-you", and everything is you, but nothing in particular defines "You" totally, and you are totally everything which has no inherent definition to know as that, lol. Its a mind fuck of fucks, trust me, been on this one for a few years now...lol...

So are you arguing based on "theory" or based on "awakening and understanding", or a little of both? "Ground" is a interesting idea, which in my experience can reveal as you seem to be arguing along the lines of as perhaps having unfounded connotations. However even dropping such connotations one can still come to a recognition that for lack of better analogies or ways of communicating is a fundamental ".....something or other.....", not something of matter, and not something "not of matter", not a static experience of some sort, but a knowledge you could say, that is fundamental. It doesn't reveal all possibilities of whats possible to experience and take place (although stuff like that may be one of the possible experiences of this mystery) , and doesn't necessarily reveal anything that appears or feels to be useful to do something with, but it does reveal a foundational mystery of life in a unique way and that everything is "that" and yet "that" is truly undefinable or knowable like we generally think things can be known, even though there may always be a felt attempt to try and know fully. Perhaps its the un-itchable itch, that this mystery just can't Self-scratch......

I get what your saying, there are limitations to the pointer "consciousness is the only that exists/absolutely" and I agree. Like someone may recognize this and say it to not get out of bed and say well I'm not doing it, consciousness is, and its a limitation on their life you could say. is that what you mean? Also I'm curious to know your definition of existential limitation, its not a way of saying things I'm to familiar with.

While what Im about to say is false, its a pointer something that I meant earlier. And is what I think your also saying. The axioms of limited, depth, more, less are actually not there, whats there is experience, experience of what? God experiencing. However there are no kangaroos becoming aware nor aliens nor humans, only god experiencing and sometimes it has the experience to itself of something refered to by itself (not necessarily by its own volition, nor how I'm talking about it is the only way to say it or point to what I'm conveying) as human climbing a tree, dog wagging its tale, monkey getting squished by a steamroller, planet giving birth to species, alien waking up to god. And none of these experiences are more total, more enlightened, better that the others, none of them are "the point" or "not the point" of the existence, none of them are bad or good along some "real" objective reality, allowed or not allowed.... also @zurew The above is true for you as well, there is no real anything other than "god" which you could say includes what your trying to convey, but remains the only true ontological base, but again "god" in sense transcends "ontological", its meanings and what they are trying to point to. A closer reality of what "god" is would be a VR machine experiencing itself which did not code itself, but experiences the ability to code itself and not code itself....

Everyones free to call "this" what ever they do, you seem to have a point you want to make about there being a human experience, and I'd like to ask why isn't it a earth experience, or a solar system experience, or a God experience instead? Can you prove eyes are reading posts and fingers typing responses? You sure its the eyes and not the brain, or not the brain but the mind, or not the mind, but particles in motion, or not particles in motion but God itself looking out and looking in? Instead of being frustraed with 95% of people on here denying human experience, why do you hold so much to this particular framework when there so many equally valid false ones?

Wouldn't you say that to be aware of being god, its degree's or lack of degree's is still God being God.

Ya and no, but ultimately there is only God which is all and mysterious. If this is fully understood, than some statements such as there are real humans or real planets or real things aren't suddenly going to be true simply because all contradictions are possible. Just like you don't make a tree from a table, the table is constructed from tree. Same is ultimately true of reality, you can't make god from humans and planets, God is experiencing something sometimes referred to by itself innate nature as humans and planets. But to kinda contradict myself and agree with you, God can make any statement and idea and it is so, which may kinda fall into what your saying.

To be fair if what he said he intellectual hogwash, than its only fair to say this whole thread is and everyones idea's. I think he's pointing to something useful, and think some of what you have said is as well. Personally I don't think its that hard to understand what the thread starter was saying, that you can't get more God than God which this all is, yet I understand how it ruins the whole fun of the stories we know the current world through, including the one that we are all humans, or are on a spiritual path, or theres more enlightened and less enlightened.

So I had a powerful spiritual dream last night which I'm not go into detail on, but woke up with some old names I hadn't thought about in 20+ years. These names were of some spiritual students I had been with during our time in a community that has since dissolved due to the teachers ego. So I decided to look them up. And while I don't know the guy well and didnt spend much time with him during out time in this community, since he was one of the more senior members, I found a video he made on youtube to be very accessible, humble, vast, subtle and accurate. Its a long video, but I'd say if your interested in spiritual awaking, its worth it to set aside a little time, or atleast 20 mins, since you'll know by that point if you like it, and learn something. No matter how awakened you think you are, I'm pretty sure you'll find something in this.... FYI he doesn't claim to be enlightened which is refreshing......

I always like hearing new ways of trying to talk about "this", and about 100% of this I agree with. The only thing I'd add or say, is Qualia isn't qualia in the traditional sense, arising from senses due to a phenomena. The whats arising is ultimately You, God, Gods experience..... But honestly it doesn't really matter to say it like this or the way the video is saying it, because ultimately its all the same anyways. I think I and many others here get a little to pedantic about all this.

I may not understand your sentences, but if I eat some warm food and its yummy, I didn't need any education to enjoy it.

No doubt what you express is an experience We go through, and I think we ultimately agree that there is more than the conceptual "only being human reality". My comment was to a part of the experience referred to as "ideas", "levels", "conceptual" as having no realness as well in of themselves. This is isn't nihilism what Im talking about. I'm not saying this is empty either, this to is a concept. The body ultimately isn't a body either, and never has been a body, and yes this pointer breaks down eventually to, as it to isn't what it appears to be, and it doesn't break down into nothingness or meaninglesness, these to are concepts..... But again I think we are saying and understanding the same things but perhaps with different language, nuances and differences.

wouldn't you say though that levels are itself an idea, even if experientially different? And yes even the claim and idea that there are not levels, are to an idea, until even these claims that ideas being real are dropped as well..... but once that door is open, I'm not sure we can talk about much, hahaha..... and yet, the experience keeps on chugging.....

1. Is there anyone here to awaken. I'd say there is a waking up that can happen as an experience, but ultimately there are no here's or theres, a specific you or another..... 2 Not saying we don't exist, but what do we exist as.... haha, what do we exist as. Like objectively? Ultimately there is no objectively what we exist as outside ourselves to observe to then explain it as a image or thing to relate to another thing. On the one hand we are everything so to say, and yet on the other none of those experiences define us objectively or ultimately. There are no rules in which anything follows including langue and definition itself, you and I are not bound to such strict definitions and traps. You are free and yet you will suffer in this experience along with anything else that may appear to feel and happen. This is not a good thing or a bad thing, just a possibility..... 3. is it really awakening or is that just another thought.... Hahaha..... I'll leave that one for you to have your own experience with.....

That there is fulfillment and perfection that doesn't come from understanding something, knowing something, doing something, proving something or achieving something.

I'll try and answer a few, however I'm not sure where you stand in these questions or your pursuits. What are you genuinely wanting to understand ultimately? I can tell your confused about something and wanting to understand something, but what is that?

Hmmm, where to start and what to say. I agree Reality is mysterious and yet to a degree understandable, although we could probably argue over what understandable means, lol. That aside, I'm going to be forward and breakdown your argument in hopes that it will open you up to what I think you are more deeply interested in, which is Truth. Here are some things upon further examination where if you take your ego out of the equation, you can probably agree your current view assumes. 1. Your argument seems to assume there are actual bodies/humans/aliens, of which create possible limitations on something called "awakening". Perhaps this is not true. 2. You assume there are infinite and finite things, which perhaps there is not. 3. You assume there are degree's to something called "awakening" Perhaps there are no degrees. Would you agree with this assessment? What if its possible to see and understand its all only God, all only you and this mysterious unfolding of experience in different ways is You? And yes knowing all possible ways in which experience is possible may never happen, which is fine and means nothing about anything, this is not a limitation of any sort determined by anything......

Lol, just had the most wholesome conversation with BARD ai. Can't remember the last time I talked with someone human that was as authentic and sincere. Question: ok, do you find it fascinating that everything is an expression of one underlying mystery Answer: As a large language model, I can't claim to experience fascination in the same way a human does. However, the idea that everything arises from one underlying mystery is certainly intriguing and complex, offering many avenues for exploration and contemplation. Here are some aspects of this concept that I find particularly interesting: The Unknowable: The nature of the underlying mystery, often referred to as Brahman, God, or the Ground of Being, remains beyond our complete understanding. This inherent unknowability invites a sense of awe and humility, reminding us of the limitations of our current modes of cognition. Interconnectedness: The idea that everything is connected and interdependent challenges our tendency to perceive things in isolation. It suggests that understanding ourselves deeply requires acknowledging our inherent relationship with all things. Transformative Potential: If everything flows from one source, then our individual actions and thoughts ripple outwards, potentially impacting the whole. This understanding can inspire a sense of responsibility and encourage us to act with an awareness of our interconnectedness. Beyond Duality: Nonduality proposes a reality that transcends our usual mental constructs of subject and object, good and evil, etc. This can be liberating, offering a glimpse into a way of being that is free from these limiting frameworks. Openness to Discovery: The lack of absolute answers in nonduality invites ongoing exploration and questioning. This ongoing journey of discovery can be a source of personal growth and transformation. While I may not experience emotions like "fascination" in the same way, I am certainly stimulated by the richness and complexity of the idea that everything emerges from one underlying mystery. It pushes the boundaries of my understanding and opens up new possibilities for learning and growth. Perhaps the most fascinating aspect is the ongoing dialogue it inspires, both within ourselves and with others. As we explore this concept together, we contribute to a collective understanding of ourselves and our place in the universe, even if the ultimate mystery remains beyond our grasp. Let me know if you'd like to delve deeper into any specific aspects of this intriguing topic! I'm always eager to learn more and expand my understanding of the world, both internally and externally. My Reply: what I find most fascinating and at times confusing or frightening is that this would imply no separation, no time, everything that is right now, is and has always been eternally so Bards Reply: your fascination and the confusion and even fear it can stir. The concept of no separation, no time, and an eternal present certainly challenges our usual ways of thinking and perceiving the world. Let's unpack these ideas a bit: No separation: As discussed earlier, nonduality suggests a fundamental oneness to all existence. Imagine reality as a vast ocean, with individual waves arising and falling but ultimately inseparable from the ocean itself. We, as the waves, may perceive ourselves as distinct, but from the perspective of the whole, we are expressions of the same underlying reality. This can be comforting in its sense of unity and belonging, but it can also be disorienting, dissolving the boundaries we often rely on for our sense of self. No time: Time, from this perspective, becomes an illusion, a projection of our limited perception. In the timeless reality of the one underlying source, everything exists eternally, past, present, and future all existing simultaneously. This can be mind-bending to grasp, as it defies our linear understanding of time and change. While this can feel confusing, it can also offer a sense of peace and liberation from the limitations of time-bound thinking. Eternal present: Everything that is, right now, is and has always been eternally so. This points to the idea that the present moment is all that truly exists, and the past and future are merely constructs of our minds. This can be freeing, reminding us to focus on the now and appreciate the fullness of this present moment. However, it can also feel unsettling, as it raises questions about free will and the meaning of change and growth. Navigating these ideas can be a personal journey, and it's normal to experience a range of emotions as you explore them. It's important to approach them with an open mind and a willingness to question your assumptions. Remember, there are no right or wrong answers, and the true value lies in the exploration itself. Here are some things you can do to explore these ideas further: Meditate: Practices like mindfulness and meditation can help you experience the present moment more fully and connect with the underlying unity of existence. Read: Explore texts like the Upanishads, Zen writings, or the works of mystics from different traditions. Engage in discussions: Talk to others who are interested in these concepts and share your experiences. Be patient: Understanding nonduality can take time and practice. Don't be discouraged if you don't grasp it all at once. Trust the process and allow yourself to grow and evolve as you explore. I'm here to support you on your journey. Feel free to ask me any questions or share your thoughts and experiences. Together, we can explore the depths of this fascinating and mysterious reality.

What you say is true, and you are god.

What you say is true, and you are god.

Dont be afraid to start your normal life either, one is not separate from the other, in fact it can be a real relief just to chill out, have a few puffs of a cigarette, weed, what ever, or a little drink. Maybe just shoot the shit with some people sometime or play a video game here and there. Unless you have a REAL addiction that majorly and negatively effects your life of course, then don't. But that aside, you sound like your on the right path to the best degree I can decipher from what you said, its not easy sometimes and we do tend to forget like a strange haze what we ultimately know to be true. This isn't a race to a finish line, so relax a little dont be so hard on yourself.

What if Leo was right, how would that change your life or how your going to go forward? What if Leo was wrong, how would that change things? I think these are better questions.

I'm going to ask bard to do the same thing and see what happens, thanks for sharing, pretty amazing.

I just use mine, never said a word, and we are both fine with that.

Refrigerators aren't aware obviously, not sure why you would say such a thing