Mu_

No ones accusing you of anything, I said that as an example so you could put yourself in his shoes and see how someone comes at you calling you a liar or coming from your ego without much getting familiar with one another. I understand you may feel strongly about this, and may be right, but wouldn't it make sense to get some clarity of definition and learn what the other person is saying before jumping to conclusion? Anyways this isn't a reprimand or even a major issue, just food for thought.

@WaveInTheOcean @VeganAwake Okay you two, stop comparing the size and shape of your packages and why one looks better or has more reasons to exist than the other. Touch tips and play nice.

"I have no disicpline, i have no work ethic, i am a yo-yo self helper, one week i feel good and have good habits, then i'll slip back into depression for a month, nothing sticks. " But how does this make you a loser? See your judge, jury and executioner here. Another way of putting it is you believe yourself to be guilty of being a loser "judge" based upon the evidence work eithic, yo-yo self help, no discipline, "jury", and most likely you feel depressed about this, self hate in some way, wish you were something other "executioner". I bet something closer to the Truth is you do have some degree of discipline, some degree of ethics, and you probably care some degree about others at various times. Also guess what most people are concerned and thinking about themselves more so than others, its so common its normal, no need to feel like the blacksheep and beat yourself up over it, you can't just say "hey, I should care 10x more right now and into the future", it doesnt work that way. First start with eliminating beating yourself up, then incorporate appreciation and gratitude for what you do have. Are you free of major illness? Do most of your body parts work? Do you have food each day? Shelter? Guess what, its not a given or a promise from life that you get those, so say a little thank you inside and out, not because you must or someones forcing, but because trust me it can get so much worse. Dont wait till you lose something for you to miss it and wish it was still here.

Your entitled to have your own experience an opinion on the matter, and I get your reacting to protect others from what you believe is dangerous, thats very kind, however he's sharing a view that is his and so far isn't encouraging anything dangerous so far (I'm keeping an eye on this), he's bringing his own perspective on how these Deities and spirits have their own opinions and opinions of other deities and spirits. In my limited time in this domain of spirits/Deities I can see what he's talking about, I can't prove or disprove it but I've had moments where it seemed like it might of been that way. You both seem to share overlapping views in that you want to approach these entities humbly/respect. He has many different experiences as well, perhaps they are valid, I dont know, but I do know theres SOOOOOOO much we don't know about what we can see, feel, touch, hear, taste, smell, and sense, so working with Deities and Spirits is still pretty open ground in terms of knowing how it works, wouldnt ya say Anyways I stand by what I originally said, no need to accuse him of lying or coming from ego. The same could easily said to you because people have different experiences than yours. Wouldn't you say thats what constantly goes on in the world with scientists, politicians, Religions saying this person is evil or flat out wrong or dangerous because the situation or information conflicts with their own?

I dont think you get what he's saying here. I'm paraphrasing him. He's saying the word/symbol "demon" but it doesn't necessarily translate to an actual demon, its the Christians that are calling these "somethings" the word Demon. Again this isn't to say these "somethings" are coming from hurtful intentions or not, I can not say. Its kinda like if I said your " evil " and a "demon" because you are human or because of your strictly your skin color. Humans would fall under many accepted definitions of what the term demon is pointing to in terms of how they treat those around them that are not human, and even towards humans as well. Or if a Christain called you a demon and a sinner because you don't believe in Jesus or have had sex outside of marriage. Does their beliefs for their reasons make you a Demon? This is what I believe he meant.

I've been pretty rock bottom, but I don't think my resolution will fit your circumstance. It sounds like you may be going through a heavy case of self judgement. By what definition of loser are you? Your own? Your parents? Your friends? Your culture? All of them? Do those definitions define you or are those just their perceptions? Again are you a immoral person with no code of ethics or is this only in comparison to blue moral and ethical codes?

Huh? Do you know him personally? Why do you assume he wants things handed to him on a silver plate?

Now I don't know fully where he's coming from and what his behavior is in relation to these things, but he does seem to try and explain that some of what he refers to "demons" are just given that name from Christian perspectives and perhaps not real evil intention entities. English is also not his first language. No need to accuse the guy of coming from ego or lying.

@ardacigin Congrats on your progress, lots of juicy insights so far and many surprises ahead I'd imagine.

Ya this phase can be very troubling and may take a lot of love, patience and understanding to travel through so to say. I'm going to ask you a few questions, and I want you to really penetrate into these questions and sit with them with a investigative openess. Don't rush this process, let it be something you really look into perhaps over the next few weeks at first. Are you the monster that your experiencing "inside", or are You "whats aware" of this monster? Is it true that your hearing this monster "inside", is is it true your feeling this monster "inside" and if it is, are you the monster or only that which hears and feels this energetic "monster"? Now look closer, is this "monster" really a monster or is it what is currently being labeled a monster? What is the underlying form of this monster? Images? Thoughts? Emotions? A combination? If any of this is unclear after you try looking into, let me know and I can phrase it differently. Let me know what you come up with in a few days otherwise and if anything shifts or opens up that is new.

Did this start happening after your enlightnement experience a while back? If so, it sounds like ego backlash. Did you watch Leo's video on ego backlash? Ive dealt with ego back lash a lot so feel free to ask me any questions that may be helpful for you.

"What is the highest most loving selfless perspective"? How about some acceptance, and not telling people you don't know what level of development they are at? Love is radically open and accepting, and if two men want to put their heart and soul on the line to see who's the last one standing, why not? I use to train MMA and had a few fights, a lot of these guys a very respectful and look at this as a battle of wills and wits and accept the risks, most dont have bad blood between eachother and honor the rules and when the fights called they are very respectful to one another. For some its the only option they have to support their family and selfs. Lots of good role models to in that world being the exact teacher of values for those around them for the, people that can relate at what ever level of development they are at. If you want to use levels, then understand that role models and value structures are going to look very different at each level, but are exact and perfect for groups of people at that level. Theres no higher role model, a Tyson of the world is just as important as a ramana maharshi for another group. Inner city kids are going to role their eyes and get very little benefit from Ramana, where as say a Tyson guy who they can relate to can spit some relevant shit for them that can help better their life.

Remember its ok to feel pain and alone, its okay to face fear and what you sinned. Let it be, dont punish yourself, and let it just be or go. Your ultimately bigger than it all. See what happens when you ask god to forgive you. If nothing happens, forgive yourself

Why is the fact that there seems to be some degree of suffering from your point of view a problem, and how does it conflict with love? When you really come to "your" answer, then ask yourself, does your belief line up with Reality or is it just a belief? You may then ask what is Reality. Good exactly, you don't know....yet. So be open and let go of this preconceived idea of god and the question. Its fine if you want to keep the old belief and keep seeing that way, but perhaps you may see that you can drop it, and find out what reality looks like without the belief for a while, maybe learn and see something new. You can always come back to your previous belief if you want.

Sounds like this zen guy missed the lesson on love.

Prayer can be a loving and life saving thing. If you truely truely are on your knee's, sometimes you open up just enough for Gods infinite potential to make anything happen, happen. Thats also why sometimes when people hit their ROCK rock bottom, they find god. They just came to the end of their suffering and played it out as far is it could go, and there was nothing left but to be left with God.

God is the best comedian around.

Enjoy,@James123

I can understand through my own awakening what you mean, there's just a different language expressed on subtleties. Like Yes the moment of you happening (feelings, thoughts, sensations) is what you are, and your the infinite interpretations, infinite view points, infinite births and deaths, the labeling, the naming, everything!!! theres nothing thats not "You", the falling away of distinctions and the distinctions, which is just you. The beautiful smell or breaking out in hives reaction to smelling a rose, the stinky or pleasant odor of baby shit, the perspective of no-mind, the happening of void/nothingness, the falling away of all distinctions, the forgetting of that and the feeling of being human and the infinite ways that can feel.

So if you ate a piece of shit in between two pieces of bread, it would be no different then eating salami? There would be no color, no texture, no smell, no taste arising as whats happening?

@VeganAwake Sure the individual story can cease, but that doesn't mean its not a one tone happening so to say, or the senses stop functioning and there's no quality of anything.

Haha, this is going deep, ok, so are you saying that if an animal bit off leg of the body your talking as or typing right now as, there would be no indication of change? I mean no feelings to indicate alteration of body..... Is that what your saying and if so, I'm not sure what to call that, lol. Is color not evident, is sound not evident, is taste not occur, ever notice the stench of a poop vrs the fragrance of a rose? I think you equate feeling with needing a mind (which doesn't really exist, and I agree), but I'm saying the "taking place/non-event" after distinctions dissolve still has quality/flavor/substance that doesn't require or fall within the general jargon of form or emptiness. The experience of Being/changing/adventure is no more or no less real/illusion of "You".

There's no scientific concrete one size fits all method that works for everyone. But that said, try as many methods as you can and see what draws you in energetically. Maybe you will feel your heart open, maybe an intuitive sense will awaken that feels "just right", or you'll feel your mind start to ease or expand. If you find anything like that when you try a new method, stay with it for a months-years, until you find yourself pulled somewhere else. See how Ram Dass works with you. Put on some head phones with the lights off and just relax, listen and watch this guided thing. Report back if something shifts

Just out of curiosity is this something your citing or know through awakening or experience? I mostly agree either way. I'll just add a few things to the topic as well and then clarify my original post. The happening of "You" can be phrased in many different ways and metaphors none of which are fully able to encompass the totality of "Itself". Words like "everything" and "nothing" aren't real things so to say in and of themselves, but within our communication now, are metaphors pointing to ".......", which isn't a something, everything or a nothing (again just words pointing). Some call the way of pointing I'm pointing to, lol, as "nothing can really be said", or "silence is the answer". Now back to my original post and using the word "experience". To translate it in the metaphors you use above, I'd say this. Yes all "experience" is "You" and while you can say there for it doesn't happen since its just a Now, none the less I'd argue that the "Now of taking a ice bath, feels slightly different then the Now of eating a sandwich". I mean if you doubt me, test it out, and I'd honestly be curious if you didn't feel anything different within the Now experiment".

Really interesting stuff you've shared, some parallels of information and experience I've found in my own experience. I'm not sure how much answers you'll find here, not many people that I'm aware of on the forum have shared much in these realms, but I could be wrong. Maybe people will share their experience here. I will say though, "evil spirit", demons, black magic, is not something I'd play around with, even if there is so to say lessons that can be learned, I'd just heavily warn against it.