SoonHei

@Mikael89 yes, i hear you lol this statement of 'mine' ( I hear you ) is full of corruption isn't it? i haven't dived deep enough as yet - you're way ahead of me but i know that the resistance you're facing shall pass and resistance and this feeling shitty/negative means "you" are onto something so keep "pushing" thru this and you'll level up

This is likely what's preventing "you" from being enlightened... "Who" wants to get enlightened??? The `I' needs to vanish if "you" wish for that to happen

explain ? how so? so dark side of meditation will result if it is being done "incorrectly" only? otherwise it wont happen? i know it's not a 100% that it will. but you seem to indicate that it can be avoided and is not random... do share.@Gabriel Antonio

hmmm same thing i guess as when ppl who go to the next realm/breakthrough experience come back. they have got unfinished life here they want to complete. it may seem hellish while living it here on earth. but in the beyond they are "reminded" somehow that they agreed to live it and go thru it this exact way etc etc or in other words, they see that it's all a dream and are equipped with "cheat codes" so to speak which allows them to return and live a much better life than they had been living @Mikael89

Wow this was amazing! Thank you To @ULFBERHT and whoever else may read this. Got a question which pops up about embodying this... About this... What if I want to travel the world and not worry about money? That's something which could be stopping me "right now" from doing it... Need to pay bills, etc... Sounds like living in the present to be super happy may be done by not having any desires... Then one can just be happy in the moment cuz nothing to do and rest comes from the understanding of this threads topic... Guess direct understanding of it will take care of the "financial" aspect of this issue...

@Baotrader you're correct. Keep exploring, the understanding only goes deeper and then you become directly aware of the fact that there's no limit to it... It's a bottomless pit. Infinite.

Hypnogogic jerks are also known as sleep starts or hypnic jerks. They’re strong, sudden, and brief contractions of the body that occur just as you’re falling asleep. If you’ve ever been drifting off to sleep but suddenly wake with a jolt and a jerk of the body, you’ve experienced a hypnogogic jerk. I didn't know this Hypnic Jerk term prior to thinking about making this thread. Did a google search of what happened to me and this is what I got. I have experienced this before too, not just when meditating, but during school/class when boring and I am day-dreaming or falling asleep. So just today, during my meditation sit with eyes closed I guess I was getting sleepy and ready to fall asleep when this happened. Now each time this has happened to me, it's been the same experience. A very short+quick moment of blackness followed by that jolt which wakes/jerks you up. The time it takes is almost in an instant, almost like any deep-sleep state where no-matter if you slept for 5 mins or 5 hours, it feels the same - timeless. I was thinking that as I am trying to get the no-self experience during meditation, this happens... maybe it is at this point where I am about to get a glimpse but am unable to stay "conscious" through that process? One of the things, which is remarkably notable in that almost non-existent tiny moment of blackness is the deep relaxation/bliss which is felt. I would describe that brief relaxed moment as those mini sleeps we all get when we snooze our alarms. they pass by as if it took 0 seconds but they are so good. I could snooze all day on my day off just to enjoy those mini wake-ups and sleeps. so yeah, could this be just me dozing off to sleep and getting this state or could me wanting to get a no-self experience by clearing my mind have something to do with this... but as I am new to this, I am unable to sustain the experience?

@cetus56 beautiful

was listening to an audio tape of byron katie and in it, she was teaching a questioner by answering her inquiry repeatedly with "can you know for sure" or "can you really know?" or "how do you know that's true" is this what other teachers/gurus mean by ultimately realizing that we do not know anything? like if i think my gf has some issue with me or maybe doing something which i may not like - can i really know this is the case? until i see it with my eyes? or get a physical/visual proof of what i suspect to be true... until that happens, it's all just a thought or assumption which i "cannot know for sure" or "have no way of knowing if it's true" ? is that the solution to all/most of our problems... that we cannot know? and therefore, we should let go and not suffer the thought and deal with it when it happens to confirm itself infront of us? one thing about this is though what if someone suspected because there were "signs" or "symptopms" that their partner maybe cheating... but since they "cannot know for sure" they just choose not to investigate or worry... all the while the partner was infact cheating behind their back and due to the fact their partner never bothered to check up on them or try n catch them in the act or confront them - the cheating partner got away with it... am i generalizing here too much? does that "we cannot know" theory to let-go and see thru the issue only apply to very direct thought issues only and not to the issues of trust/cheating or something else?

we all know the pointings of all the religious texts is towards this non-duality which is confused but investigating that further to find the true-er meaning... as bible/quran say that do good and then you will get heaven and live there eternally heaven = enlightenment / end of the Ego/personal self so once 'someone' gets enlightenment - will 'he/she' now eternally exist in that blissful state after the death of 'their' body? like when mooji or e.tolle's body physically dies in this world, their now 'awakened soul' will not re-attach to another human baby form or something and have to live out life? will that 'awakened soul' just exist (we cannot say what, but will it not be reborn again? live eternally in heaven that is) ? yes, i know before/after enlightenment - chop wood carry water. but wanted to explore this point. another thing is this, it seems "pointless" in a way that if in my current living life, i get enlightenment and then live out the rest of it in a non-dual state only then to be reborn as another human avatar and live a life of suffering again it does seem imperative that enlightenment should be the end of the illusory world finally, i also firmly believe that the mystical/magical/fairtale version of heaven is there to be had as well - if an abiding muslim prays 5 times a day, does good, harms no one, lives selflessly (while still in a egoic mind) i.e. does good deeds, isn't bad to anyone etc. then she/he will attain heaven after their 'death' just like a person experiences their respective beliefs during a psychedelic trip or during a near-death experience - same way upon the death of their physical body, they will experience something in line with their belief - a heaven with flowing rivers of milk, fruits, women, whatever gets you excited i believe that the ending of the personal self ego is the highest level but living out this life of illusion as a pious, kind person such that your soul/consciousness is not guilty and is at peace would equal to getting the next level of existence within the illusion and that would be heaven ... or hell if one holds that belief and they have done "wrong" according to them for which their soul is not at peace (eternal bad trip after death awaits those)

@Hellspeed all is possible within the absolute. no controversy raised. just one out of the infinite possibility stated @Nahm ummm... i am afraid i was/am speaking in duality terms @Flow With Life i am not sure how causality works or what it is TBH but our thoughts/beliefs/words create and define our reality - i was saying that based on this.

ummmm in a nutshell, what i am saying is that one's beliefs about what will happen and what kind of world we live in determines where they are headed post "physical body death" also. i dont see anything wrong with ending up in a "reality" within the absolute after this human life where you can live forever in your human/whatever else form, eat, drink, mash, enjoy, party, not get sick, add any other positive perks - eternally all there is in that state is happiness in form - whats so bad about that? its like being rich, unable to die, no diseases, no worry about money, responsibilities or anything - all you got is happiness heaven is attainable - your definition of it and the path that your mind thinks will get you there matters the highest level is to transcend this all via seeing thru the illusion and just abiding as being which is supposedly infinitely better and more blissful those who dont know what sugar tastes like, another known substitute for it will suffice for them

@ajasatya yes. you got that right. Reality (or as I was saying metaphorically, the body) becomes conscious of Itself. a living ALIVE whole!

just an insight further painting a picture of reality i think this is quite deep for me at least as we know, all of reality is alive+aware that would mean, my chair, house, car, table, carpet are all "aware" in a different sense that I am, but aware/alive nonetheless - in a very still sort of way following this logic, each of my body parts is also self-aware for example, my hand may think it makes its own moves/actions. has a mind/life/experience of its own but then the hand can expand it's awareness and realize that the hand is just a distinction of this large ONE-BODY. and that the HAND itself was never itself a separate thing but part of this WHOLE so in that case, say for the emo folks out there, who cut themselves... if someone uses their hand to cut their other arm . it's the same-self harming itself. the separation is from the point of view of hand to arm. not from the ONE BODY turning this around - murdered vs the murderer - ONE raped vs the rapist - ONE so on.. and the ego realizing it is a mere part of the WHOLE of INFINTE existence this is why it's so unimaginably radical. thinking you were the 'hand' vs you were the entire body >>>> thinking you're this body vs you are the whole of existence! WOAH

i find i tend to live my life this way but maybe it has to be lived in a very authentic way for example, i mean, i am not sure if you're working, retired, well off such that you dont have to work or whatever but about the not worrying about the future part, how does that fit in? is that then the "law of attraction" wherein if you're not projecting thoughts/worry into the future, the universe will keep your positive/flow going on its own? like if you lost your job for example and have to pay the bills which will continue, by being in the moment and not worrying about the future how will that resolve? i suppose by being in the moment, the required action which must be taken arises "spontaneously " and that way the "future" is secured and you aren't worried about it in the "present" ? @Enlightenment also thank you for replying <3

wow yes. so simple and elegant "time flies when you're having fun" so that state one is just being - just the experience... no experience and an experiencer and yeah, i have had many moments like that heck even working on something like a school subject i like, or coding or something that comes to me "naturally" and fully in it. but i guess in all those states, i have not been aware that i am just experiencing. i would still look back after the fact and say i was doing XYZ but sure, time flew by i understand what you're saying wow. and yes. the tv show + you sitting on the couch does = duality when compared to this way you have explained so, just in a nutshell your experience / non-dual experience is abiding that that natural flow state - but doing so, consciously ? @Enlightenment

wow so it seems like there maybe the occasional coming back to the ego but for the most part you're watching a TV SHOW of your body's life+experience while sitting on a Couch ?

@Enlightenment to "you" , from where and how is the experience of writing that reply on this forum viewed/seen ?

@cetus56 when the perceiver is gone then, is it the ABSOLUTE experiencing itself, knowing that it is experiencing itself? ( I guess knowing+experiencing+itself also break down at that point - there are no VERBS, only Noun. a single Noun, i.e. what remains is just the self-aware-ABSOLUTE) ??

@Osm @Psyche_92 Point is it depends on what ur life experiences have been . For e.tolle he had been depressed and had anxiety attacks since he was like 18 or so. Can't recall the age. He was constantly depressed to the point where he said I don't want to live with myself anymore He genuinely meant it Deeply And had an ego death. Any normal person cannot just have this done to them Someone may get a glimpse but will return back to ego In his case, he was ready for it all to end and therefore there was nothing "he" wanted to go back to and therefore he had abiding Non-dual state he's still in today e.tolle died that day and was "reborn" as awareness only

yes@Haumea2018 . i agree enlightenment ~=~ to being pulled back into the couch-less couch of witnessing and watching your life play out on a TV-less TV in a way. sadness/happiness/fights/war/rap/murder all will be displayed as various programs/shows on that TV but as the audience/watcher of the show you can "enjoy" it while being involved in it to an extent but freedom is there each second just like if u watch a sad movie or horror movie - at the end of it all, you tell urself its just a movie/show/cartoon whatever

yup. 100% agree. he needs some psychedelics but it might make the ego stronger in his case

i have read on the forum, plus heard in many videos online that what reality is, cannot be talked about. no words can capture what it is I watched a clip of Alan watts in which he says you want to know what reality is? It is this >>>>> *hits a bell loudly, and a ringing bell GONG echos* is this because anytime we use words to point to reality, we are, right then and there, using a part to explain the whole? the words themselves are part of that "moment" which reality is constructed out of, therefore cannot be used to explain it words automatically have meaning as you hear them and this takes you in thought vs the whole of your experience with this understanding, I suppose it would be accurate to describe reality by making an random sound from your mouth or saying some gibberish words after the statement, want to know what reality is, it is this *insure your words/sound* as Alan watts did with the bell gong random thought, but I think I dig it

@Leo Gura yoooooo U got me good with that bruhhhhhhh #MansLittRightNowBTW