SoonHei

@Jack River Then what remains? Does the phsycoligical time not continue after this too? I mean you are writing this reply and all? I guess you are doing so and since that instant flash of the insight, you have been 100% aware of the movement. No falling back to the illusion?

@Jack River you state that seeing holistically the nature of effort is key to all this. What practices or contemplation led you to this? How can I try to think about this or see thru this illusion?

@Pouya yes, that is correct. but "loosening of attention" is easier said than done. he further defines it as a relaxation of a doing the example he uses which I like is that of a clenched fist. that is how we are right now. in order to clench a fist, it requires a doing/action. we are already doing that - which is what the attention on objects/everything is. to loosen this attention from objects and collapse it onto itself requires that one "stop" clenching the fist - notice how that is NOT a doing or an action but a RELAXATION of an effort/action/doing. so in your quest to discover and uncover, somehow, someway, you will get closer and closer to the truth until it finally all clicks and the attention collapses onto itself. a DEEP PROFOUND realization needs to be had you could say. no doing is required, rather a deep existential understanding. another example is of a movie actor, acting out a sad scene / story and forgetting he is in actor and is actually suffering while he acts out that scene... what does he need to do to realize that he isn't the character he is playing in the movie, he is the actor who does not exist in the world of the character? he needs to "do" nothing nothing but realize that he is already the actor outside of the character's world realize that he's made the mistake of identifying with the character in the movie. simply this.

@Pouya when you go to sleep and have a dream - whatever & wherever that dream world/reality appears inside is 100% the same space where your current waking state is appearing inside. call it mind space call it IOEFJWIOEJF naming it doesn't matter know that it is the same with this contrast. YOU ARE THE FORMLESS perceiving itself @Pouya is one of the infinite point of views/experiences that the ONE FORMLESS is having. you just happen to be the lucky one peeking out of @Pouya eye's / perspective

@Pouya you're on the right track keep in mind, there isn't a more or less "accurate" version as you say with the dog vision, eagle vision, human vision etc... reality is 100% what you see it to be there isn't a main fully constructed super real reality which can be seen with say an infinte resolution vision or somthing... there is just nothingness which appears in various forms you can say that form/vision which appears depends on the tool being used to look out from... dog's eyes, human's eyes etc better way to say what it is would be to think of a screen with tiny blank pixels and they are colored in accordingly - in infinite ways, rendering what you / I experieince, animals etc... reality is an illusion indeed - but it's deeper than what you're talking about. the whole construct exists in "mind space" it's all a thought/dream of ONE GRAND CONSCIOUSNESS

all enlightened masters say the same thing. there is no free will. there is no doer-ship. etc... it makes sense from their current viewing pov - of no self. while the common man / seeker is living in the illusion, the free will is there 100% one cannot say that if enlightenment happens (no self is realized) that it was all by grace and not their own doing. it is essential to note that our true self which is always present is 100% what we are right now, living as the ego. the true self, though, present, suffers as it has associated itself with the body-mind. the realizations/understandings which occur bring about the next series of thoughts/experience. all the while, the sense of doer-ship is there and it must be exercised as such and the work put in to seek / see-thru the illusion. it is only after the illusion is seen thru can we say it was an autonomous happening all along. However, just as there is the experience and living out of the life in duality while in the ego mode, there is also an actual living out of the free will. IT IS AN ILLUSION yes - but that's the workings of it. you have to steer the wheel and guide the flow, where the flow goes depends on your steering. you have that free will and control over it. this is a very crucial point often overlooked / misunderstood, especially when one hears from the sages that there is no-doer of actions or thinker of thoughts (that point of view is relative from where they are vs where you currently are)

@Shiva LOLOL @Jack River time comes to a stop = ego death = non-dual realization = seeing thru the illusion of self + separation = enlightenment yeah?

@Cepzeu great post! i know the deep realization that you're talking about here i have had this too and it's amazing you're just like WAAAAAAAAAAAA lol keep going. i did come out of that realization though and it doesn't feel as powerful as it did during that moment (that's what is called about being the understanding vs trying to intellectually grasp it) NOW is definitely the ALL and this realization can also be had that if you were able to "still" or pause a single slice of NOW then you have this reality-3d-4d moment of space-time all captured as ONE all there is to that moment is the entirety of it. as ONE SOLID BLOCK of reality. IT IS ALL ONE sure, there is the point of view looking out of "your" eyes but it is all a frame of experience of that total moment in the NOW that's how you can see and understand the duality collapsing and seeing and understanding how it is indeed all ONE

@Ero you raise some good questions there... i'd like to get an answer too, i have an idea about what it might require to see thru... but i'm hoping someone with a higher understanding / direct realization can step in and answer here... @Nahm @cetus56 @Leo Gura

@Preetom yup I agree what i mean to say is the same! embody your current experience. dont live it on the beliefs, like there is nothing to do etc... it is most of our experience right now that we are a separate self. sure, most of us on this path know so intellectually or have had a few peeks here n there about the TRUTH but it isn't out present experience it's just important to note that when a lot of the realized masters look back and say it wasn't anyone doing any of these actions which led to the realization. it is correct but all the while living as the ego in that past, there WAS someone doing something. inquiring, thinking, doing the work. the point of views are relative, not absolute. being with your current point of view and working from that is the key not projecting an expected POV and working out of that

@AlwaysBeNice yes, i agree. not all say that... but this is a common understanding when talked about exactly. speaking from a place of non-duality, most of what's being talked about are pointers as it can only be so that way

@Shin i'm scaled the level of skill that requires no glance at the keyboard or the screen to see what I am tying and if I'm doing so accurately. in other words, I can type without looking... care to venture a guess about where my eyes might be looking at as I type this? oh yes. you got it #TheHand

yes. i agree with this. the HIGHER SELF / TRUE SELF working thru/living out life each of the ego-minds is what has this realization and it is understood. I'm not sure about the question you asked in bold...

@SageModeAustin it's like trying to turn your head to look at the back of your head... any "doing" will not accomplish it that's why it's so slippery... it has to be realized

All the emotions+feelings that YOU have experienced, the Infinite Existence has also experienced... BECAUSE YOU EXPERIENCING THESE EMOTIONS+FEELINGS MEANS THE INFINITE EXISTENCE EXPERIENCING THEM! "YOU" ARE THE INFINITE EXISTENCE (EVERY MOMENT) HAVING THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING/LIVING AS SAMRA @Samra

was going over some trip reports and found this to be extremely shocking and terrifying that so many reports of bad trip reports have a line which kinda goes like this: I thought it couldn't get any worse and THEN IT DID! A LOT WORSE and it KEPT! GETTING! WORSE! that in-itself shows the boundless/limitless nature of reality how can there ever be the worst possible pain? if it could be quantified in some way then say if the pain level reached that highest quantified level, what's there stopping it from adding +1 to it. just like the infinity of the numbers in maths although, there does seem to be a recognition / feeling of a level which is known to BE the worst/BEST - the one having a non-dual samadhi experience feels infinite bliss/pleasure... INFINITE! how can infinite be felt? yet it is known that this is the best/highest there is just like that, there may also be infinite pain (resistance to what-is X 10000000000.... ) these could be the depths of the hell where lost souls may dwell to post the "death' of the physical body and if they arent in-tune with their mind or have a super guilt full consciousness just a rant.

wow this is so elegant! it makes sense also, that if there is no resistance aka resistance = 0 then we get; PAIN x 0 = No Pain! nicely done. thank you @WelcometoReality indeed! so many trip guides and Leo also says, just surrender (accept / stop resisting) and that's the key it is another one of those #EasierSaidThanDone things. but that's exactly why they suffered, yes, i agree.

@WelcometoReality <3 bless

Am I correct to state that we all have overlooked the Non-Dual state in our everyday life when considering the simple example of watching TV? When we watch a TV show or movie, we are fully immersed in the experience. We are fully watching and knowing the story/experience from a place of stillness - the dinstiction between ourselves and the show we are watching collapses . We aren't thinking about past or future, we are just in the NOW deeply watching the content and in a way, one with it? Sure, we don't get the experience of all duality collapsing - maybe that's because it is overlooked so easily... But again, is this correct or am I far off? Even a moment of a full hearty laughter. Someone has a funny slip n fall and you laugh ur heart out in that moment - you again don't have an " I " in that moment... There is just laughter.. you have become.one with that experience ! It is often said when enlightenment happens, there is usually laughter... Sure the above slip/fall laughter ain't the enlightenment laughter... But the essence of it is the same I feel. Being ONE whole in the moment Any existence purely in the Now yields the Non-Dual state.. with the ego quickly collapsing and then rising soon after - all unnoticed

boom. get this tattooed on the inside of your eyelids. #ReminderAsYouBlink

@WelcometoReality yes. you and I are on the same/similar page there. #WorkInProgress when there is resistance... it must be seen for what it is - you cannot force the resistance away... or pretend to accept WHAT-IS it has to be done at the core level it's almost like freaking out to see that there's a snake on the ground and you almost stepped on it. now you're on top of a chair and unable to move as you're afraid it may get you then you somehow see what you thought was a snake was a piece of wood. you mistook it to be a snake. the will annihilate the resistance/fear of it. and then there is acceptance of what is whatever the equivalent of discovering the snake was a piece of wood is for a particular situation needs to be discovered/uncovered (the illusion seen thru) and then the worry or resistance cannot remain. nobody in their right mind would continue to pretend to be afraid of a wooden stick thinking it maybe a snake or might turn into one once you see it for what it is. the resistance/pain is gone. POOF

to all: anyone doing this hand watching exercise have any understanding grow or any significant rising of awareness yet?

@Charlotte <3 indeed it's a gradul process "upwards" the more aware you become, the easier you can see thru a reaction of yours which is about to rise in response to a certain event this way, anger, a defensive stance comment, sadness etc all can be contained/coped with and let-go of easily someone grieving the death of their loved one does eventually stop and move on - doesn't mean they no longer love them ... they have now finally accepted their death and are at peace with it. is this not the case? so if someone is okay and business as usual the next day or the same day after the death of a loved one. doesn't mean she/he is heartless (unless they are and that's a diff topic) for an enlightened person or someone with a high enough level of awareness . they know life/death is part of what-is and it cannot be anyway else once it has happened. accept it. and move on. done. the gap between the incident and finding the peace with the said incident gets smaller and smaller as your awareness risies. the goal is to be able to do this MOMENT BY MOMENT - that's true enlightenment, living in the NOW and that level can only be attained by NO-ONE. you must become NO-ONE to be able to not have a zitch of attachment to anything to be triggered in anyway . so you merely live and accept life moment by moment. this is another way to say find out and live as your true nature. NOTHINGNESS. NO-ONE. gradual steps up to let-go of your beliefs and conditioning and then ultimately full non-dual awareness

oh no. absolutely not. it does not appear. nor is it to be asked during that experience. no thoughts outside of what is happening in that moment right NOW appear during that experience. this question is merely a tool to understand what's really happening in those moments . to see the process / mechanism of what's happening in such experiences @WelcometoReality

also linking this with it