CreamCat

@Clayman Leo said lots of Green people did not properly integrate Orange. They didn't skip Orange. They just didn't integrate Orange properly. It's also possible that Blue or Purple people are disguising themselves as Green. I feel that I probably didn't integrate Blue properly in the past. I don't remember being Blue. Perhaps, I was Blue without knowing that I was Blue.

Despite the fact that traditionalism has problems, the changes people neurotically suggest do not seem any better because they force answers to come out of their egos. Answers that you force out of your egos are low quality answers. People are trying to peg a square block into round holes. Answers will emerge organically. Don't force answers out of your egos. Accept the fact that we may not know a better answer for a while. Be patient. Trust that high quality answers will naturally emerge out of infinite intelligence. I don't care much about traditionalism, but Jordan Peterson is right in that short-sighted neurotic answers coming out of human egos are not going to solve problems. Lots of neurotic answers people suggest are dogmatic and inflexible. Let the problem simmer in your subconsicous mind. The answers may not come from you, but others. Leo said that while we are formulating a theory, we should have ability to act in opposition to our forming theory and keep doing what we have been doing until a good theory emerges. Theories change everyday, and we can't change what we do everyday. Why are people so eager to push new theories down others' throats before the theories are tested? We need scientific politics.

@martins name Western societies have plenty of angry Green activists who team up with Purple and Red. I live in asia, but my country is highly westernized. Look for angry activists. You'll find Green, Purple, and Red. Also, there are many Red psychopaths among corporate executives.

@GreenDragon When I see Blue and Purple, they are different. Blue is absolutist. Blue emphasizes law and order. Purple doesn't mind chaos if chaos destroys its opposing tribes. Purple is not particularly interested in enforcing law and order. Also, Orange is not as selfish as Red. Orange at least has some conscience and doesn't want to hurt other people intentionally. Red is psychopathic. Red would stab your eye with a fork just for practice of power if it can without getting caught. Red screws people over for practice so that they can get away with bigger thefts in the future. Orange can be opportunistically selfish.

Islam is Blue. You can lead them into Blue-Orange. You can't directly change them. Blue-Orange is not bad. Blue is quite oppressive. People don't like to be oppressed. Give them tastes of Blue-Orange which would feel like liberation to them.

@fireworld Spiral Dynamics tier 1 is not about evolution. Every stage of tier 1 merely tracks how an individual's psyche changes over time. If you have successfully integrated all stages below your current stage, it may feel like evolution. For example, an Orange person can see how its selfishness hurts people and become Green. In some situations, Red is better suited than Green. For example, let's assume that a robber(Red) intruded your house. You can't cope well with robbers with Green mindset. You need to awaken your inner Red and grab a shotgun in this case. The ability to flexibly apply various stages of Spiral Dynamics to situations is the way forward. Green can be good if it is applied flexibly. Dogma and inflexibility can ruin any stage of Spiral Dynamics. We need dynamic balance. You need to dynamically balance yourself between stages of Spiral Dynamics according to situations. If you have successfully integrated all stages of tier 1, you can do this.

@fireworld I think that's because many Green people skipped Orange. They didn't properly integrate Orange. People on the healthy side of Green are reasonable and compassionate. One example of healthy Green is universal basic income movement. Leaders of universal basic income movement embrace Orange and Yellow, but they are mainly Green. Some of them are transitioning into Yellow and show signs of extensive systemic thinking and selflessness. I'm not saying universal basic income(UBI) is the right answer to every problem. We have yet to see whether UBI solves problems. Although it "seems" UBI will solve many problems we face today, I'm not dogmatic about it. Green people who didn't integrate Orange properly cannot transition into Yellow because Yellow seems colder and more criminal to Green than Orange. Also, many seemingly toxic Green people are actually Red or Purple. Unhealthy Green people who didn't integrate Orange properly tend to accommodate Red and Purple people in their Green movements. The end result seems to be psychopath(Red) infection driving out Green. Psychopath infection is a serious issue in every level of tier 1 of spiral dynamics. Orange tends to cope with Red better than Green does. Without tints of Orange, Green can be very vulnerable to Red. Once a Green movement is hijacked by Red people who lead Purple people, the movement assumes cult-like characteristics. Purple is cultish and tribal. Purple is also known for magical thinking. That's why Purple can seem unrealistic and disconnected from how things work.

Because you can't taste this life after you die. You want to stay in this life for a bit longer. Be patient. Your ego is an illusion, but illusions exist. Illusion is a higher-order phenomenon in my theory. Take human body for example. A human body is the sum of human cells, but it is more than a mere sum of human cells. A human organism possesses properties that mere cells don't have. A human cell is a first-order phenemonon. A human body is a second-order phenomenon. If pure awareness is first-order phenomenon, your ego is probably a second-order phenomenon.

Focusing on a single task requires mindfulness on that one task. Meditation is pure mindfulness without doing anything. If you practice mindfulness, you exercise your focus muscles. Work and meditation both strengthen your focus muscles. By practicing meditation, you can improve focus on a single task. It's the opposite of multitasking. Meditation is the cure for your ADHD.

@intrastellar I think I agree. Unless you have directly experienced or observed the other side, you can't say for sure that grass is greener on the other side. You can only approximate loosely. I think it's an egoic bias that people are not aware of. I often see people speak in the lines of 'My group is better', 'My country is better', 'My culture is better', 'My gender is better', 'My group suffers more than yours did', etc, ... Have you actually experienced the other group, or the other culture? In the past, I automatically assumed USA was better than my country. I was wrong. Grass is not greener on the other side. Perhaps, my country is better than north korea because north korea is visibly terrible. This is a bias I see a lot. To me, it seems like an artificial boundary. Can you pinpoint the boundary between your kitchen and your living room? You can't. People take artificial boundaries too seriously. Dividing an issue between genders often feels as artificial as gerrymandering. You can divide a district however you like to benefit your ego. You divide a district by geography, race, gender, etc, ... to benefit your ego the most. If you want to access truth, you should stop gerrymandering. I am going to show you an example of racial gerrymandering. People are taught that white people enslaved black people. That's true and false. It's only half the truth. Black people enslaved more black people than white people did. It was Black people who sold black slaves to white people. Black people had a lot of white slaves, too. When black people hear this, they say `it's ok for black people to enslave other black people`. It seems each social group doesn't want to admit that their own group members are just as bad as outsiders.

@SFRL Leo is pretty alpha, though. I'm neither a dick, a pussy, nor an asshole. Your model doesn't seem to fit this forum too well.

Your subsoncious mind controls your consciousness. There are things that pull strings behind your subconsious mind.

I think you are looking at only half the problem. Women and men are both objects to be used. Why would society let men roam freely when they can be used as valuable resources? If I was a Red person, I would probably screw everyone over, regardless of their genders. Where it's dangerous for women to go out, it's dangerous for men to go out, too because the area is infested by gangsters. Gangsters are dangerous to both men and women. Gangsters themselves are resources to be used for the benefits of gang leaders. Red is the culture of resource extraction and paperclip maximization. In their view points, humans are just resources to be turned into paperclips. Fortunately, in regions where modern policing evolved, Red is suppressed.

@Emerald You are vague about your needs. That's why I don't understand it. If you don't want to talk about it, don't. I read in a book that women are drawn to success and winners of competitions. Wealth and power indicate success in the past. Resourcefulness predicts success in the future. For example, humor predicts social success, so women like men who are witty with humors. I was able to pass a job interview with my wits in the past. Perhaps, that's why I was harsh on myself for not having been successful with my career. Career failure felt like death to me. Perhaps, your body is an object. It is a truth. My body is an object, too. Humans are basically biological machines and physical objects genetically designed to be used for purposes. History proves that men were used as death objects in wars. Men take orders and die in wars, mines, etc, ... Women as sex objects. Men as success objects. Men can also be used as sex objects by some women who wish to do so. I saw some women who wanted to use male olympic athletes as their sex objects. They were fun creatures to watch. But, you are not your body. You are not a human being although you are affected by your biology and your culture. You have to adjust your expectations realistically. It's going to take a lot more emotional labor than you expected. Also, be open-minded about spirituality. Perhaps, spirituality itself is just as much an ideology as money ideology. I kind of accepted the fact that I'm pretty much worthless to me and others. Accepting insignificance of your own existence can be a good starting point. When you accept your own worthlessness, you are free. Self acceptance is to accept your worthlessness.

@Emerald I don't think women are supposed to think of themselves as sex objects. That sounds like masturbation. Would it help to think of men as sex objects instead? Note that men view themselves as success objects because access to sex for men boils down to wealth and resourcefulness. Women are drawn to men who already have resources or are resourceful. It seems that you're worried about your diminishing sexual market value. Sexual market value matters only in social contexts. It seems to me that it boils down to who's the coolest girl in your town. If you surrendered your social life, you would be more internally grounded. Note that surrendering your social life doesn't mean abandoning your family and living in monastery. Fashion and physical attractiveness are one facet of social competition among women. Another facet is how desirable your husband is to other women. Material success is how men participate in social competition. I know it's difficult to let go of social competition because it is stimulating. It was easier for me to let go of social competition because I have lived in social isolation for many years. It was difficult to let go of material success for me. Letting go of material success felt like death. But, surrender was aided by social isolation.

@aurum You make me interested in PUA although I'm becoming okay with just being without anything fancy in my life. In the past, I was kind of reluctant to try it because the results I can realistically get with short stature, average face, and very little money would not be great. It turns out that not having been in relationships with women was good for my dwindling finance.

@StardewValley When people behave in explicitly tribal manners, it's pretty obvious. After you study tribes for a bit, you will recognize tribal behaviors in many places. What's good for a tribe is good for a tribe member. What's bad for a tribe is bad for a tribe member. What's worst for a tribe and its tribe members is its opposing tribe. They rage tribal flame wars. It's pretty obvious when you see tribal warfare. Their thoughts are pretty magical, so they don't use logic. If logic is bad for a tribe, logic is bad. They believe any idea conducive to the survival of tribal identity. If an idea dissolves tribal identity, it's bad for a tribe. If truth is bad for a tribe, truth is bad. Logic and truth dissolve tribal identity. They desperately hide from truth. For example, let's assume that you belong to Apple tribe. You are an Apple fanboy. You worship Apple products. You believe anything conducive to survival of Apple tribe's identity.

You don't have to remember people's birthdays. You can just record the birthdays on your calendar software.

It's probably easier for me to surrender because I haven't had sex for my entire life. I made peace with not having a girl friend and not having sex at some point. I still have monkey sex drive. If you withdraw from something for long periods of time, you will eventually surrender. I will probably have sex when there is good reason to have sex.

@Emerald I thnk you fell into the trap of buying into societal pressure. My parents have put enormous pressure on me with regard to marriage. They often emphasize how I need to man up by making more money and hooking up a woman. Tell a poor person to make more money, and see how it turns out. It's like telling a cancer patient to get better instead of paying for the patient's surgeries. Men are not having it better. The evolutionary pressure is enormous on both sides. If you buy into the narrative that women's worth is primarily determined by physical attractiveness and validation from the other sex, you are disempowering yourself. Take responsibility for your self worth. I chose not to buy into the narrative that men's worth is determined by muscles, height, masculine face, and money. Women don't have less power just because society wants to make women believe their worth is determined by physical attractiveness. We need some balance here. Be cool about dating and marriage. But, I should probably worry about about dating and marriage because I'm too cool.

@MM1988 I think you are too neurotic about getting sex. You need balance. Be cooler about sex. If you are neurotic and needy around women, women will avoid you.

Leo said one should probably pursue personal development and life purpose for 10 years before starting self actualization or enlightenment. I want to clear up some confusions around the definitions of personal development and self actualization so that my efforts are not misdirected. Does personal development mean things like curing oneself of addictions, growing muscles, eating healthy, productivity, and career development? Does self actualization mean enlightenment and living a virtuous life?

I don't know what Coral is. I can't say whether he is Coral. But, I watched TJ Reeves' video about the spiritual ideology. His video resonated with me. I think I'll watch more of his videos.

That's fatalism. Perhaps, fatalism affects your sense of time.

Leo is a real man. We should learn to take responsibility for not having sex. Become attractive. I was just entertaining the possibility that female hypergamy could be a truth. I don't see female hypergamy as a problem. Women in casual relationships can leave men freely. So can men. There's real problem with marriage laws, but that's a topic for another day.