WindInTheLeaf

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Everything posted by WindInTheLeaf

  1. If this is the case there is no problem inherent in searching for answers. It is merely the expansion before and after any contraction. But perhaps the process can become optimized if we stop searching for answers to questions without answers and stop seeking security in answers without questions. I don't know, interesting to contemplate. Thanks everyone so far for contributing to this thought-stream, love you even when I don't.
  2. So wholeness, being complete mystery, is divided in the attempt to grasp/explore/know itself? And divided it attempts to become whole by letting go of itself? Like breathing in breathing out.
  3. @Jack River urge/need. maybe depending on where we start, our first expressions, we either set out to know for the sake of stilling our anxiety of the unknown, or for exploring by our love of the mystery. hmmm i wonder how it all began in the first place? ahhhh here we go again
  4. @Jack River yeah, like either side comes with the price of the loss of the other. But maybe by going on a journey out and back again can return us to mystery but without the urge to know it anymore
  5. Sharing it with someone over a cup of tea as part of a joyful conversation for the sake of conversation is one thing. Or perhaps in the right setting with the right person needing that angle to get further in their own thinking. Posting it as some kind of certain knowledge on an online forum dedicated to getting rid of attachments is a whole other thing.
  6. What I attempt to point out, is not that thoughts, ideas, words, lie outside of truth. On the contrary, I believe that everyone is already - no matter who they are and what they may believe - expressions of the absolute truth. And i agree with you, that thoughts arise within truth. But when we become attached to thought, and start believing that we know what we cannot know, we suffer a great deal. If we wish to attain a complete grounded-ness in the actual, we must relieve ourselves of our false beliefs standing in the way of attaining such a thing. Observing so many seekers following the words of those having gone further along the path, I believe it is crucial for those trying to offer guidance by words to question whether or not this is actually a possibility. Also, here lies a seeming contradiction: If everyone is already expressions of the absolute truth in relative form, then how can we judge one human being to be closer to truth than another? If thoughts arise as expressions of truth, can truth ever be grasped by thought or is thought always a step behind, truth always evading the grasp of anyone trying to catch it? If this seems to be the case, if there is just a reasonable probability of this being the case, then should we not abstain from talking about truth? Don't we risk spinning a web for ourselves and those who may, by their own interpretation of our words, find some new theory to cling to? I do not advice you or anyone to abstain from talking altogether. Just because talking is a step away from the non-dual state, does not mean it is a step away from truth. Being human is, i believe, most of all about human connection. But when we wish to be part of the progression towards a deeper sense of human connection, love, acceptance and togetherness, we should abstain from creating more confusion and separation. If anything we may experience, any memory, thought or word, lies within the relative domain of 'reality'/'dream'/whatever as an expression of the absolute truth, then how can we by any of these means ever grasp the absolute truth? Why should we? If we are already the absolutely amazing mystery that is, what more is there to be? Is there more to be? Or is the search for more what separates us from the feeling of completeness, of needing and wanting nothing else than what already is. And don't we all love mystery above certainty? Perhaps the mystery is what gets us going on our quest to discover, as it kind of drags us in, but at one point the mystery starts fading and the world becomes dull and boring and cold as we are now apart from it, and all those different people having started out as children just like we did, have gone a different route and have attained a different nuance of truth and now we start clashing with them, as we take our own truth too seriously. I do this all the time as well, just now i have spend so much time trying to be all serious making a clever sounding post for you to read. Looking at it now, it seems kinda silly, but it would be a shame to delete it, and what would be the reason for that anyway?
  7. @Serotoninluv how do you know that you experienced what you now believe you experienced back then? @Nahm well, I believe you were the one talking about 'things of past', but I'm glad we sort of agree. My question still stands. How do you know, that what you believe to have directly experienced, and what you believe to be mere illusion, is in fact so? How do you know, that whatever distinction you now hold of what is true and what is not, based on 'what you have and have not directly experienced' is not illusion? If, as you say, anything outside of the actual is mere illusion, how can you be sure of anything? Now, I am a tad perplexed at the way in which this thread took a weird turn, ending up in some kind of mental masturbation. My head hurts from writing out this reply, but I believe it was necessary. I am kind of tired so it might just be some grumpiness so don't take it too harshly, but it seems to me that you attempted to derail a thread that poses some questions that might make some re-evaluate whether or not a forum such as this is the right place to look for answers. As I see it, you posed a question within the duality of time and space, and as soon as I answered you turned around and started talking about non-duality, although I merely attempted to point out the absurdity of your question and answer. If this is merely us talking past each other, as we all often(if not always?) tend to do, or a direct attempt to undermine the validity of the original questions and answers, I do not know, and I hope this doesn't seem too much of an accusation. No one is to blame for anything. Either way, thank you for the dance.
  8. @now is forever yes exactly! it's like that saying that you hear the truth from kids and drunks. having no filter must be so liberating, but then you might say something that others won't like and hurt their feelings.
  9. @Nahm But even if that experience was lingering now as a memory, how would I know that I experienced what I believe I experienced? How can I know that I know what I believe to know? And how do I know, that I did not in fact experience birth and just have no recollection of experiencing it? Perhaps it was such a traumatic experience that it got repressed. Perhaps it was such a dull experience that it didn't quite stick as something of significance.
  10. Don't worry, nothing will be taken from you if you don't want to let it go. How far you go is up to you.
  11. @now is forever thats awesome! it's like kids, before they get all indoctrinated into the way of doing thngs - looking at the world, what is right and wrong, fantasy and reality, etc etc - are the wisest of the wise. They have this amazing flow of truth, like they are just naturally enlightened masters doing without contemplating whether they are doing it 'the right way'. There is no wrong in their world, and so they are just messengers of the divine 'is', until something happens that makes them start worrying, or they get too serious about playing or start believing in the grown-ups or whatever happens. Perhaps we return to the way of the child by enlightenment, it surely seems like they are closest to the truth if you ask me.
  12. Lately kids have been a sort of guide to me. Walking past a little girl, not more than a few years old, playing, and as I'm right beside her she starts singing a children's song going something like: "mister are you sleeping", right as I'm kind of in a gloomy mood being little old me. Another little girl on the train with her mom the other day, where everyone is kinda just sitting in a sour mood, the atmosphere kinda heavy people keeping to themselves, and she just starts laughing the way small kids laugh, you know like she is overflowing with joy, and while her mom tries to shush her, she starts singing another children's song: "the wheel going round round round" and she just can't get past this sentence as she cannot contain her laughter, but at one point she exclaims "because it's made of water" and she goes back to laughing, and then she says "I want to live in a ball of fire...hahaha... I want to walk on an angle of electricity", and her mom tries explaining to her, all rational and grown-up: "nonono you cannot do that it's too hot and you'll get electrocuted..blablabla". And slowly the flow of joy comes to a halt and things return to normal. Kids seem very wise, grown-ups not so much.
  13. @Serotoninluv I should perhaps have put it differently: is truth beyond thoughts-of-truth? Can truth be grasped by thought if thoughts arise as expressions of truth?
  14. Very valuable post for anyone on this forum. Oh no something to hold! But as long as there is seeking, and he who seeks truly wishes to end seeking, this would be helpful as it outlines many of the traps along the way.
  15. Look for yourself? What do you mean? I know who I am! And who are you to try and tell me what to do!
  16. Like your answers short and concise, especially the maybe of the last one. From 1-3 i have this followup question or counterquestion: If truth is beyond thoughts and words and thoughts sort of hang together, how can you point at the truth by words to someone clinging to some thoughts about it? Wouldn't anything you say be twisted into something else? So you may point one way but they hear/see you pointing another. Is it not better to be truth than spend energy trying to describe it?
  17. But if theory is a layer through which the road is seen and traveled, would the closest approximations of 'truth' not be the hardest to get beyond? Doesn't we tend to cling the hardest to that which helps us the most?
  18. @Rilles ma dude! would love to hear your thoughts on thoughts! but perhaps there are none? in that case keep on doing what you doing <3
  19. @Jack River Hehe, attempting to point the finger at the finger is very hard indeed, perhaps impossible but i dont know and i will probably never know but i just cant let it go. @Sven Thank you for putting much attention to these ramblings of mine when you realize the impossibility of the task, very much appreciated. Alan Watts is perhaps the most central figure who keeps me wondering if there is perhaps still a place for talking about what cannot be put into words. I agree on your final point, I too believe it would be an obstacle moreso than a tool, but perhaps i do not wholeheartedly agree as I'm here asking questions hehe.
  20. @Nahm 1. Thoughts arising as part of truth, making thoughts about truth the truth chasing its own tail by the illusion that it is apart from 'it'? 2. So you can help someone reach the end of thought by providing the right questions for him to ponder? Would this be possible aside from a one on one interaction, as in speaking to a wider audience? 3. If there is nothing to say about the truth, and anything we say is truth hiding itself from itself, then why speak in relation to the quest for truth? 4. If whatever they do next is anchored in these thoughts-of what they seek, would such a theory not create an even larger illusion for them to break through, as they now have an idea that is very hard to break?
  21. As i see it, flow state is sort of losing yourself in completely surrendering to your experience as 'i', and enlightenment losing yourself by complete detachment from experience as 'i'. @i am I AM thank you for clearing that up
  22. If you have figured out that nothing matters, why do you hold on to the position that sees that nothing matters? Perhaps there was a reason you became a dreamer in the first place.
  23. If all is illusion, and someone living out the illusion of 'reality' sees a devil, is he not there? How can you progress to higher stages of awareness if you did not go through the lower ones first, and reach heaven without first going through hell?
  24. Exactly. Even he who points his finger cannot see past his fingertip. Leave the moon alone, there's nothing there to grasp. Only no one sees the moon for what it is.