electroBeam

Yeah that was kinda my point in a way haha.

Thats why i didnt mention tier 1 or 2 in the original post, but after you took what i said as a lecture rather than just a new way of doing things, you forced me to you outline it specifically you bugger saw everything coming lol.

Now that everyone on here is awake, lets move on to the next revolution where we realize there's no such thing as being awake

Just keep in mind that this is Tier 1's mantra. Sure i can see how that post was off topic. I didnt initially see it that way because i thought the new way of thinking would be very powerful for your specific topics. But now that im more aware of how you feel about things, ill refrain from such discussions in the future.

@Heart of Space i wasnt lecturing you dude, i was expressing an idea. I think any 3rd person observer can see what i was pointing at, especially the part that it was just a vision/idea i had. You've just taken it too personally. Actually what im alluding to is a tier 2(SD) way of understanding and communication rather than tier 1. You just werent open to that possibility. I guess this forum just isn't ready for it.

And the funny part is, he already sees that, because he's not some other that's making epistemic mistakes, he's you. Just another finite expression of the infinite youness.

On a practical note. No you dont need faith(although i love mandyjw's perspective on faith). You need honesty, sincerity, open mindedness and being genuine about truth. If you've got these things, and you start to really question atheism, I'm not sure if you'll discover "god" for "god" is just a concept, but you'll feel a sense of deep love, satisfaction and joy from the effort you've put in.

Lol. I think the bigger point i was making was another way of seeing compassion is it literally being your entire spiritual path and journey, challenges, growth, AND helping others(if helping others is within the form youre realized through). In other words instead of compassion being some special trait that the almighty enlightened beings have and act on, compassion was actually flowing through the universe at the same rate the entire time, yet just manifested itself in different ways. Because the entire thing, not just self realization but also before that, was Love. Your "helping people" is just a tiny puzzle piece of the constant compassion that was always flowing through the universe. But at the same time, i can definitely see a mandyjw hugging rocks while on walks.

IME you can try to be a good Samaritan all you want and refuse the intellect because your mind is too curious and active, yet you won't win, the force is too strong, and you'll have to learn to go with the flow of it, rather than reject it. So contemplation, insight, meditation it is, just learn to use it properly rather getting lost in thought. I like metaphysics, the sort of philosophical/idealistic type(quantum mechanics is too dry for me) yet more as a force of creative expression and design rather than a truth yielding mechanism. I find that you can try and just focus on removing karma all day, but eventually the creative mind will get sad and depressed that its creative energy isnt being let out, and so thats when the metaphysics comes into it. Just as the buddha/Moksha warned, getting lost in it is a distraction, any metaphysics beyond "ejaculating" creative energy and expressing compassion tends to be a waste of time. And waste of time = ego deception/you just got played by your karma.

Sure, acting on that compassion definitely occurs in humans, yet doesnt occur in infinite love realized rocks.

I appreciated that joke, thanks! Love != egoic saintliness. Love includes "get the fuck out of my thread you silly billy".

Yeah I was trying to communicate a vision for an entirely different way of contextualizing a message. Where your perspective, views, attitudes, objections and observations are expressed with an agenda of showcasing the beauty of the universe's intelligence, diversity and wisdom, rather than as pitfalls or challenges that supposedly "others" are doing on the path. Much more like a painting rather than pure criticism. Such a new framing looks at the world more from the point of view that there are no individual "others" climbing up the path, making mistakes and pitfalls, but rather the universe as a whole is a integrated, intertwined and orchestrated play of different dynamics coming seasonally in and out of flow with a cumulative effect of growth of everyone as an entire organism, and such pitfalls are just new, and necessary dynamics of consciousness that makes the growth as a whole possible in the first place. Such framing I don't see happen on this forum much, if at all. And I see such a framing as being really really valuable for such topics such as the ones you bring up. Because the topics you bring up are much more unique to the individual then say the act of stabbing yourself in the eye. For example, people on the path have such wildly different reactions to psychedelics, that making a general statement for how users aren't using psychedelics properly, certainly has its place, but there's also the element that whether people are actually misusing psychedelics, or whether they are getting deluded by them, is not as clear cut as it seems. Even if they are getting deluded, they might be worse off without them, you don't really know, and then theres the fact that such delusions might not actually be delusions, such people might actually need aliens to advance on the path, its ridiculously diverse. Such diversity is at a similar scale for your other points. So for such complicated topics like these ones, your message might actually come through more effectively if its framed in a way where what you're offering is a showcase and an invitation of exploring a particular perspective of consciousness, and you highlight especially the beauty, wisdom and intelligence of the perspective, without adding in assumptions about the pitfalls of those "others", or rather an assumptions of what those others should be doing, or what they should be aiming for, because in a sense each person really does have their own unique path, even though giving others clear directions on what they should or should not be doing is cool sometimes. For a concrete example: (B) could be reframed as: "I want to take you, if you're willing, on a tour of a newly emerging perspective about the properties of psychedelics. In this perspective, such tools radically break the mind's ability to process stimuli in ways that are far more chaotic and extreme, which destabilizes the mind's ability to make sense of such breakdown of stimuli and cause it to try and rush immature, unbaked, rushed reconstructions of interpretations of such breakdowns that lead to a destabilization and misleading of direction on the spiritual path. In this perspective, such minds were unprepared for what just occurred, and now have to deal with the added turmoil of correcting such broken reconstructions". That way you're not assuming stuff, but just introducing the insight in its pure form, which was your insight originally anyway because "others" don't exist. Anyway I didn't post this here to convince you of anything, the original intent was to clear up my previous message, because I didn't feel right about how my original message was misinterpreted. I didn't actually think you were being unfair or biased, I was just trying to communicate the above.

You can debate, i didnt say you couldn't. But there's an underlying assumption in debates that there's an absolute correct answer that both parties have in common. There is a total lack of acknowledgement that people have different truths. And that lack of acknowledgement has limitations on the effectiveness of such communication. It limits ones ability to probe into understanding the other's position, as it is assumed that their position is the same as his/hers. The orientation is misguided from the outset because it is assumed that if this person has the same reality as me, and they dont get what im writing, then they must have blind spots, or be deluded somehow, when actually when one considers everyone's position is different and everyone has a different truth, one's mind opens up to possibilities beyond that such as their brain chemistry is different, personality differences, differences in emotional vibration or frequencies or energetic signatures. It could be possible that such a perspective is absolutely irrelevant to them due to such differences, no blindspots at all, just living in a different world or reality entirely, like a salvia user debating over what the universe is with a LSD user. Which is just an elaborate way of saying all perspectives are finite.

I'm really struggling on how to make a decision. I just don't have enough exposure to the field. I've got just enough money to sign up for an almost 6000 dollar pickup course, where there will be a pickup coach(not a famous one, but he seems solid) teaching you stuff every weekend. I have no idea how good the course is, or whether its worth it, but it seems good. Here is the pickup course. The cost for me is the price, if I do this course, I'll have almost no money to survive, I'll be living off less than 200 bucks a week. This is a problem because its stressful, wont have money beyond food and rent, but also because I'm super passionate about psyches at the moment and I wont have enough money to buy psyches. I'm also super interested in spiritual courses like reiki and other modalities, although I can do without these things. My social skills is quite bad, and I've got autism. I can and have approached girls solo before, have gotten numbers and dates before through pickup, yet my skills are still lacking. The biggest issue I have is I'm quite weird and therefore have virtually no dress sense, and my mindset is just radically different to everyone elses. I don't see social cues the same way as others. Whats weird for others is normal for me, breaking social norms is what I do daily. Doing stuff, having out of the ordinary opinions and not being aware of common social rules sums me up pretty. I also have virtually no friends, especially into pickup (they are hard core Christians, older people or hard core hippies who arent into pickup because its too individualistic for them). I dont have much fear problems, its really just the way I act. I've got almost no fear these days. I break social norms and dont sweat a thing. I've walked into clubs and bars alone doing awkward stuff or having bad dress sense, humiliated myself, and didnt even care. Just over caring about that shit after all the spiritual work that has been done. The biggest thing I think this course could offer me is linking up with pickup friends(although if I work hard enough, I might be able to find some on social media groups and somehow orchestrate it myself). And also giving me a 3rd person perspective of how I seem when doing pickup, outlining everything I'm doing wrong. Lastly I think this pickup course could give me some tribal knowledge that you just can't get through text or video, if I watch other experts do shit I'll pick up on very non verbal, subtle cues that I can use myself. Just like how the energy and presence of a teacher teaches you stuff that cannot be said. Especially when it comes to bars and clubs. I don't have any friends to go with to these things, and I am not afraid of doing it alone, infact thats a great social challenge for me, but I just feel like a huge fish out of water in these places. I dont understand them, dont get why people love them so much, dont resonate with the vibe, and I just feel like I need someone to show me how to be a normal human. I resonate and vibe lots more with hippy festivals and healing circles and events like that. On the other hand, I am totally capable and willing to do pickup solo. And I'll save a tonne of money doing that. I've already bought a 1000 dollar pickup course, so its not like I haven't done that yet. And I'll be able to not stress and take psyches. My motivation for pickup is deep intimacy. I just want to have a very very intimate, loving connection with someone. Its just a desire to care for someone. Sex is good, but its not something I'm desperate for, the caring and intimacy are much bigger driving factors. I dont have a desire to be a pickup god or be world class in getting women. Its really just a desire to explore the sexual and intimate aspect of the universe. On one hand I'm thinking I've got an online course, am fearless enough to approach solo, and why not if I get to spend money on spiritual stuff. On the other hand, I'm concerned that I'm missing out on deal breaking growth by choosing not to have a 3rd person observer give me feedback, and to watch someone do it live. TL;DR: What are your stories about doing pickup solo vs with a coach and community? Was the coach and community a deal breaker, or you did well just by yourself?

Lol! Nice one!

Yep, interesting. I think that's what most "others" aim for. Definitely agree that those things are partial realizations. Yet what I aim for is actually getting epistemic things right first and foremost, rather than increasing love or reducing suffering. So spotting deception, making sure I truly know what I think I know(whether thats a thought/ideology, state of consciousness, insight or realization) and always being open to other possibilities to make sure I'm not closing myself off to what might actually reveal a deeper truth. I've always got lots of karma, no matter how many realizations I've had, and there's always stuff to spot, always areas where I've just noticed I'm wrong or incorrect about something, or where others are incorrect about something, even people like ramana, and you can prove that to yourself through highly rigorous letting go, meditation or contemplation. That's really fun for me, its like solving maths problems, except they are epistemic knowings. And this process does lead you to being more loving, because that's whats true. I don't think that's enlightenment TBH, I think that's just truth. Its definitely the process Leo follows though, and half of my influence came from him.

yep, but could it be that that progression was pretending to happen/not absolute aswell, and it only seems absolute because consciousness is so groundless that if the progression occurred in a different way we wouldn't be able to tell the difference and would be saying the same thing about that progression. Well the human form is finite, and that progression's got some human form stuff intertwined in it, especially the helping "others" part(can an enlightened rock help others on its spiritual journey), so as mental masturbationy it sounds, there might be something to it.

And the one who sees that ajnana, jnana and vijnana are all just different, finite flavors of the infinite has bestana

Something so beyond words thats its even beyond pointers. Pointers just become a hindrance. Actually its more like that savage is still in Brazil, still has a Brazilian map, but trying to get to the twin towers, but we're telling you it isn't there. Then you're saying oh because the towers got taken down in 2001 and we're saying no because you're in Brazil. The answer is to let go of knowing. You assume truth requires obtaining a knowing. And you dont have it and therefore dont get it. But the actual truth is you really already do know the truth, its that assumption thats fucking you up. Youve got low self esteem issues But do you go to the foundation of if to show that Mario's house is made of pixels?

Don't mind me, I'm just doing my Dharma

let go of feeling like you don't know anything, that you're not getting anywhere, that you're not gaining anything, that you're not getting "it". The universe IS NOT INFINITE LOVE the universe IS NOT INFINITE INTELLIGENCE the universe IS NOT NOTHINGNESS We are tricking you. We are gaming you. The truth is not those things. NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT LET GO LET GO LET GO

You're only a real mystic when you chuck away all that Bhagavad Gita, and jnana and bhakti and kriya and the universe is love crap and just BE

The greatest master is the one who knows he's the greatest fool. So don't expect a true master to be able to answer any of these questions. Rather a true master wont be able to answer any of them. Why is the universe structured the way it is? Why did I unenlighten myself? What is knowing? Both, because singularity isn't one, its everything. hehehehehehehehehehehe..... From a human's POV, a human is intelligent and rocks are dumb. From a rock's POV, a rock is intelligent and a human is dumb. Because relative intelligence is based on our form's POV. From total groundlessness, so groundless that calling it groundless is too grounded, EVERYTHING IS INTELLIGENT! Which means its almost correct to say that a human just popping out of nowhere is just as intelligent as a human being born from parents. But almost is a key word here, because Truth includes you, and you asking these questions, and you coming up with these questions, and you coming up with the scenario of a random human popping out of nowhere, and ALL OF THAT IS INTELLIGENCE! Isolating your scenario of a human just popping out of nowhere from the fact that you asked it, and came up with it and wrote it here is separating the truth. And if the truth is separate, then its not the total truth, and if its not the total truth, its not completely true, and THATS WHY a random person popping out of nowhere isn't true, and intelligent creation is necessary, because the truth cannot be not intelligent creation, because the truth cannot be not true. Yes. I've seen how the entire spiritual path is just pretend, it doesn't get you enlightened. God was pretending to get enlightened from the spiritual path all along, because pretending to get enlightened from the spiritual path is within or a subset of infinity. Enlightenment is FINITE, not infinite, I've seen both getting enlightened, and getting unenlightened, in the same lifetime.

Have you noticed yet that the more your spiritual path develops, the more open you are to different vibrations of different people, more open you are to what others say, the more you listen to others, the more open you are to exploring different perspectives? That's because the path reduces your biases or "karma". So that you can open yourself up to more and more and more of the universe - letting go of your judgements and rejections. Yet you still have lots of karma, rejections and judgements, and these are the culprits for why certain teachers resonate with you more then others. Once you fully merge with god, beyond awakening, you'll be totally in-discriminant with accepting each teacher, and the point of this work is to get as close to that as possible.

Keep in mind that everything you've written is a perspective. Perspectives are FINITE. Finite means they begin, but also end. Everything that's finite is not superior to anything else that is finite, because at some stage that finite thing will end, and another finite thing will begin. You love this perspective now, because it has begun, but you will not love it anymore when it ends, whether it ends because you get sick of that perspective, or you reincarnate into someone who likes a different perspective. I could debate you on exactly how I think you're wrong on every point, and I would be totally and completely correct from my perspective, but the bigger picture is realizing that what you and I believe are perspectives that both have a beginning, but also come to an end.