Preety_India

@Keyhole thanks hun.

@Keyhole I went through it from 2017 to 2019 and some more in early 2020. It only stopped when I found my next boyfriend. Andrew was a lifesaver. I'm currently with Andrew But to be fully comfortable with Andrew, I need to overcome the shadow of Joseph and get through all the pain, hurt, trauma, vent it out as much as possible, process it thoroughly, and not let it stay like a wound inside This journal definitely helps in throwing all the hurt out of my system and gaining traction for my future healing and recovery. I guess I will need about 3 months from now to fully process and recover so maybe by February/March 2021, I will be back on my feet again and feeling upbeat and positive.. Andrew is also dealing with his own shit from his ex. So we both need this space of time to heal together from our respective exes. Only then my relationship with Andrew will be a good one.

@Keyhole yes I will never let him back in my life again.. He is done for good. I know that he wanted to be friends with me to start his shit again that's why I told him off. I just had to be a little more assertive.

@Keyhole you're an HSP and I'm an HSP and i understand your feelings really well. I can relate 100% to every word you say. As an HSP, it's always difficult to navigate the plane of people, lots of abusive people here and there, and you have to walk on eggshells to maintain your sanity and not fall in their traps.. Main lesson that I learned from my horribly abusive relationship is to put the foot down and not be forgiving. I guess an HSP can be a very forgiving person and this gets played on.. Now I have the one strike rule. If a man ever said one abusive nonsense in a relationship, he will be out of it immediately, no more forgiving. Just stricter control on who gets to be in my zone.. And no more falling for passive aggressive love bombing. It all looks nice but it isn't nice. And once the person is not being nice,, it's only going to escalate into more hurt. So put an end to that mess right where it begins.. Although this is easier said than done.

Same here. His ex wife had a restraining order against him. He would bitch a lot about it to me.

Once the ugly side of Joseph began to show up, it was getting very difficult to keep up with him He would need my attention 24/7. I was his puppet. If anything didn't go his way, he would be livid. He would project on me things that he would do. Every time I would say something, he would find something to put me down with. And his justifications would be endless

@Keyhole I'm sorry, that's a very horrible experience to deal with.

A little background on how I met and felt with my ex Joseph. I think I was a bit naive when I met Joseph the first time. This was long back in 2017,late 2017 and It was only a few months that I had broken up with my second boyfriend Mr Bud. We weren't getting along and I had suffered a collapse during an argument after which I had decided that the relationship wasn't worth the trouble. We had parted ways in June/July 2017. I met Joseph in a grocery store while shopping in Seattle in late 2017. He was being very nice when he approached me and he asked me my number. I remember my heart pounding at the highest speed and I gave him my number and ran out of the store. I was so anxious and nervous, I could hardly imagine that a stranger had approached me in such a way. I had been approached before many times but Joseph was extremely confident and upfront. That night he texted me and the entire week he had been texting me so much. He would tell me that he absolutely loved talking to me and he would like to meet me. He was very flirty, direct in his way. At first I was simply overwhelmed by his gestures of admiration. He would tell me that I was the woman of his life. He would tell me that he deeply wanted me and he never felt how he felt talking to me. He called me the sweetest person he ever met. At times I would feel deeply confused as to what I should do. Should I really respond to his request or not? He was tall and very attractive looking. We got along really well and he had a very charming demeanor. He would make me laugh so much. I remember laughing a lot with him. So I decided I will respond to his request. I met him at his place. We spent a lot of time laughing. I was very nervous so there was a lot of nervous laugher in the air. And he began touching me. He was very affectionate. He was just touching my forehead. I remember him kissing my forehead and then I almost caved in. I almost felt like a surrender to his sexual affection. We had sex. After which he dropped me home. In the next few days I was sort of guilting myself for having given into him. I was feeling strange about the whole thing. I was asking myself "how could I have sex with a guy that I barely knew" of course he was very irresistible in the moment, but mentally I wasn't prepared for a relationship yet. I remember Joseph wanting me to come back and meet him again. He was already treating me like a girlfriend now. He was acting like he was owning me. He was being very persuasive and persistent to the point of annoyance.. There were times when I felt like I just wasn't ready for this kind of a new relationship and yet there were times when I felt why was I resisting so much. One night Joseph was very emotional and telling me how much he needed me in his life... I was preparing to tell him that I didn't want the relationship. It was just one night sex and that's it. It was a mistake and I felt sorry. But he wouldn't let it that way. He persisted that I shouldn't go.. I finally said yes and that's how the relationship began. This was somewhere in late November. After that we had been constantly in each other's company, having sex multiple times. I had developed such strong feelings for him. He was my world. For him I was his lovely woman.. And the first few months felt like heaven. We were simply inseparable. And I remember it was nearly March next year that he began to show some violent tendencies. And he would suddenly get angry and give death threats out of the blue. He would get very very controlling. He would decide everything His caring protective side was fading away and being quickly replaced by a very dark side where he would dominate me with fear.

Yep.

@MuadDib you're welcome. It would be very difficult for me to make the distinction for you in the form of words. Because like all other psychological problems, it's a very experienced based phenomenon. For example I suffer social anxiety and if I sat here and told you my symptoms, you'd probably never understand the depth of my symptoms unless you experienced it yourself in some measure. Similarly I suppose that you would need to talk to many many people who suffered narcissistic abuse in order to find that thin line where you will be quite competent in differentiating general narcissism from narcissistic personality abuse. I can recommend you Richard Grannon on YouTube, out of all the resources on narcissistic abusive personalities, his resource is the best out there to understand narcissistic personality abuse. The stuff that he describes about the abuse patterns fits my personal scenario perfectly.

A lot of people might feel that way. But don't fall in that trap of simply using traits and applying them to yourself and then taking it as a way to diagnose yourself. Narcissistic personality disorder is a set criteria (and it is not gender specific, narcissists exist in both men and women and you can only know if someone is a narcissist if you are experienced extreme behaviors in a personal relationship with them) Also for any narcissist it will be hard for them to know if they are narcissists or not. So never fall in the trap of self diagnosis. Try to get an opinion from an expert if you think you might be. But just don't go with that thought. Narcissists aren't that common, although certain traits like attention seeking behavior is getting common with the rise in technology but this is in no way translates as narcissism.. And even if you felt that someone was acting narcissistic around you that itself does not count as abuse, abuse is a distinct set of patterned behaviors. For example the narcissistic abuse I suffered was very deep with constant verbal assaults, physical assaults, public humiliation and constant verbal abuse or gaslighting. This is very difficult to explain in words here.. But if I made you to listen to the conversations between me and my ex, you'll immediately understand what I'm trying to say. One of the distinct criteria is the fact that many people warned me early on in the relationship that he was very abusive and I turned a deaf ear to it because I was so in love with him that I wasn't ready to believe it. When his ex wife who divorced him told me that he was abusive, I still wasn't ready to believe it. So often times you will see patterns where many people in close contact with that person such as an ex wife, his mother cut off contact with him because he had threatened her, so you'll see many such deep red flags where you will a certain amount of information from close proximity people who have known such a person for many years and they will be able to tell you that so and so person shows narcissistic abuse traits. Remember that you'll come across narcissistic people in your life, but they are all not necessarily abusive.. Whereas narcissistic abuse takes a deeper form. And these characteristics can only be used for cursory assessment. This is just a screening process. You try to understand their game so you're protected from them early on. However this is not to mean they are going to be dangerous. You can still be friends with them and then try to get to know them. If you see that their narcissistic patterns still continue even in an intimate relationship with them, then you need to think twice before continuing it. But like I said, these are just cursory assessments, they won't tell you how a person is deep inside. So should you take a chance with people showing such characteristics? Yes of course. Because it depends on the dynamic that you share with them. A narcissist can be more abusive to someone who they see as a target, what if they don't see you as a target? So it depends not just on the assessment but also on the dynamic. This is a huge confusion that people often have. Narcissism always exists to some degree in everyone. However you won't find a perfect fit of all criteria with everyone. Such a perfect fit will only happen with true narcissists. Even then it's not necessarily that they are going to be abusive. Although abusive narcissists will also show patterns of other narcissists but they will show deeper patterns of abusive behavior as well. You can do this to anyone. You can replace the word women with men. Children try to seek attention. Should I call children narcissistic? No. The problem with your theory is that you're simply selecting a few traits which are very common in the population and using that as a diagnosis for something much more specific. You put the person in the category only after having a long relationship with them in some form. It shouldn't be a surface level diagnosis. These patterns play on a deeper level and not on a surface level and they are also in a bunch. Not separated. It's totality of them that's helps you to come to a diagnosis. And you need to consider these patterns within the context of the dynamic of the relationship. For example if a person is simply attention seeking then it's simply attention seeking behavior. But if a person is attention seeking within the context of a relationship and using such attention as a supply then it's a completely different situation. It doesn't stand as a general trait but a sign of a deeper problem. You could easily fall in this trap but like I said above you need to be in a certain form of a relationship with that person to come to the conclusion where you feel that they have displayed these behaviors in the context of the relationship. If you began to diagnose a large majority of people as narcissists, you have already failed there. Because it's a very specific thing. In order to fully understand how these patterns play out, you need to be with that person for some amount of time. For example if someone says that they are camera shy. This automatically does not conclude as social anxiety. Whereas social anxiety is a set of behaviors that only another socially anxious person can understand. Another example is if someone shows rage. It could be a genuine instance of anger, but it may not be bipolar. What you're alluding to happens with almost all psychological disorders. Because many of those traits are commonly found in people. It's only when a set pattern is seen where these traits are affecting their general function and relationships it's only then that they need to see a counselor. Regarding the point of demonization, narcissists are important for society, they are high achievers. Many of them can be highly successful people So it's a double edged sword. Understanding narcissistic abusive behavior and recording the observations is extremely important because meanwhile it's nice to see the narcissist achieving great things but it's also important for a potential victim to identify these behaviors and stay away from them for self protection because vulnerable people often get attracted to the gameplay of narcissists and end up becoming victims of their abusive dynamic. Understanding narcissistic behaviors is not only helpful in the recovery process but also helpful in avoiding interactions in the future. Yes such traits are on the rise. But you can be assured and relaxed that many of these people are fun to be around with and not necessarily suffering from the npd disorder which is a very distinct form and these people despite showing such traits are not going to be abusive, narcissistic abusive personalities are distinctly different from the general narcissistic population, the abusive behavior that you see in an npd person won't be seen in the general population displaying narcissistic traits. Also I saw that you replaced words with "woman" in certain statements. That is just a generalization. Do you think that all women are hypocrites? That would be a massive generalization.. Here you need to understand that narcissistic personality disorder exists in both men and women. It's not gender specific at all. I have worked under a narcissistic female boss and as well under a narcissistic male boss. So such characteristics are not limited to a gender. It's important that you don't put the gender lens on it and look at it from a gender neutral perspective. When I'm giving examples of my ex, he happens to be a male, so I'm definitely going to describe narcissistic personality from the standpoint of my own personal experience with him but that does not mean that it is gender specific, it is not. If you want to identify narcissistic abusive personalities I would suggest you do a lot of research on the internet, watch YouTube clips on the topic and read articles and you'd have an in depth perspective on the subject and I'm pretty sure after reading all that you won't call yourself a narcissist.

Discuss narcissist hierarchy and pyramid scheme in the other journal. Also discuss "behind the curtain" activities. And how to behave around a narcissist. How narcissists use strict filtering controls and hidden filtering codes. When does the narcissist give you the boot? How are narcissists beneficial to society? Discuss if all narcissists are abusive? Counterintuitive approach to love bombing. If someone sends you a beautiful or at least apparently beautiful message, learn to say to yourself (Counterintuitive) - this is not that sweet the way I'm thinking. Stop being instinctual around a narcissist.

Behind the curtain activities What does a narcissist do behind the curtains? For example if you encounter a narcissist boss in your office (always remember that narcissists love boss positions, anything other than that is relegated as slavery), the narcissist is usually going to create a special group of personal attendees in the office that specifically cater to the needs of the narcissist. In this regard the narcissist is very careful in making his special picks, only the most trusted and loyal people are selected, anyone showing any signs of emotional irregularities is immediately dropped since the emotional ones are the first ones to break loyalty contracts and expose the narcissist to the institution where he is working or to the mainstream or general public. The secret place from where a narcissist gets his "comfort dose" and "supply" and "groupie harvest", I will call it the narcissist haven. Or simply den.

Do narcissists engage in "behind the curtain activities"? Yes absolutely. They always want a tiny group of people who they use as gatekeepers and surround themselves with these gatekeepers (its like a protective entourage) who ensure that certain practices and activities are kept well hidden from public view. The narcissist ensures there is little transparency. It's only the people who belong in this circle who are well aware of these activities and events and practices. The public is generally unaware of the sneaky "going - ons" that are always practiced with caution. Such groups and places are described as "hi-fi" or "special" because for the narcissist these places are special hideouts from the general media, the narcissist more than anyone is too scared to ever be fully mainstream with his work. The funny part is that the narcissist is deluded enough to think that loyalty can be trusted. Often people with some sanity break out of such circles and break their ties with the narcissist and that's when these exact people begin to divulge internal politics and secrets to the general public, that's when you get your "aha" and "haha" moments.

More insights Whats the meaning of vulnerable You're essentially dealing with people who are either physically or mentally weak or have been going through trauma or have a delicate mental state, either due to genetics or their circumstances. Vulnerable people are twice (if not more) likely to get impacted deeply by the behavior of abusers and narcissists around them. It's important to give vulnerable people tools and resources and guides so that they can effectively navigate the space around them without crossing paths with narcissists. Next question Why do narcissists love to love bomb? Using the word "mentally weak" can come across as disparaging to those who are mentally weak and so in psychological circles the word vulnerable groups is often used as a replacement..

Do narcissists operate in mini cults? Yes absolutely. They always need groupies.

questions to ask.. Uncovering the game of the Narcissist. Why does a narcissist have a polished public image? Why does a narcissist constantly replace people under him? Why does a narcissist use short words and phrases in communication? Why does a narcissist need a nice secretive place (tucked away from general humanity )? Can a narcissist ever be happy? Have you spotted hypocrisy in the behavior of a narcissist? I have had several experiences with narcissists. I worked several jobs where I had to work under a narcissistic boss and it was really tiring to always meet their every demand.. They almost treat you like a slave. Many of them can behave like kids, throwing tantrums and being completely oblivious of those around them. Most importantly they never sit down to talk.

Important things Perspectives Reprogram the mind Understanding Say no to "shutting the door" If someone doesn't take you seriously Cognitive Dissonant people and bickerings.

Yea try to come full circle with every experience in your life so you have proper closure and can move on. What you're doing essentially is bundling up all your anger, frustration, traumatic feelings, venting the whole experience, and throwing it out of your system, once and for all, and then throwing this wrapped up bundle and then starting a new chapter after all of the venting is done. Through this process you're also learning a lot of things that you missed out on. On another note, these women are helping me so much, I'm glad they exist and their voices inspire me so much, I can completely relate to them, they are so soothing in how they are relating to my experience.

This picture though. Indian media discussing about Modi not wearing a mask, all others around have to wear one.

Regarding my ex Venting about him helps me a lot with my recovery from the traumatic experiences in the relationship.. One thing that I observed with him is that he has a double image and when I studied narcissists, this is confirmed with them. Narcissists often tend to have double images - one that they portray to the outside public and the other that they have in the private. Their private persona is radically different from their public image. Their public image is someone who is very desirable and friendly and well liked. And their private persona is their real self. So publicly my ex boyfriend used to make it look like he loves all people of all races But privately he used to use racist slurs while describing people to me. And I used to always observe(notice) this great divide between who he always tried to portray himself to people versus the reality of his life. For instance most people who he was friendly with didn't know that he had been to jail. He wrote endless stuff on social media about how wicked his ex wife was etc etc. But in private he told me to have a conversation with his ex wife. And when I talked to her, she told me a completely different story than the one that he had told me.. She told me how he was violent to her. I assume that she went through a similar experience as I went through and she similarly suffered narcissistic abuse with him during their marriage and got fed up and divorced him. He also confessed to me that he slept with another woman while he was still married to her. And that was a bombshell revelation. And he tells me this towards the end of the relationship. There were so many things that he told me so much later. I presume that she had absolutely no idea that he was cheating on her.. This a fundamental characteristic of narcissists. They confuse you with little details. They never give you a clear picture. They silence you when you ask for more details. They keep a different image in the public and a different person in private. I saw him saying things and doing things that were completely different from his public persona. It's almost like you're dealing with 2 different people. Unless you have a private or deep personal communication with a narcissist, you'll never really figure out how they think in private. This is also confirmed when I see Donald Trump. There are scores of people writing books on him, describing their private experiences with him, usually not in a favorable light and clearly able to put out his private transgressions and separating it from his public image.. Often times you feel like you are dealing with a person who is leading a double life.

@soos_mite_ah hey Sush, thank you for being here for me. And any time you need something feel free to pm me. I'm always here to be for you.

This thread was really useful.

What do you think about this?

Sometimes you have to put your hand in the mud to know what mud is like You cannot become Christ by simply wearing the clothes of Christ. You have to embody Christ and Christ consciousness. Simply trying to imitate Christ is not only an egoic activity but also its basically corrupting something that is pure, basically corrupting the Swan. If you have to practice spirituality to come back to the materialism paradigm, essentially your spirituality is bogus.