Leo Gura

Obviously moar! Why would we do this work for 10 seconds of pleasure?

It's pretty hard to drop humanness. Much easier to drop Christianity.

You are correct that in the end things hinge on one's values, and there is no objectively correct set of values. My values are not objectively best, nor would I ever claim that. However, one's choice of values matters a lot in terms of where you'll end up. Actualized.org is about a certain set of values which are designed to take one to very high places. If you disagree with the values you can find other teaching with others priorities. But, your understanding of God will suffer for it. If you don't care about understanding God, then fair enough. There is nothing I can say to make you care. And yes, there are tradeoffs. Your social life will take a hit. Your career may take a hit. Your family may take a hit. Those are some of the costs, and most people will not want to make those tradeoffs. But, then they lose the right to speak about God because they know not what they say. If you select your family over Truth, then you lose the right to speak about Truth because your ideas about it will be corrupt. Any value prioritzed over truth will lead to corruption. This must be the case and people like Jordan do not understand this. It is not true that placing beauty or love over truth will lead to the same place. It will not. It must end in corruption. Not as hard as you make it sound. I suggest something deeper is at play. They never even understood the import of pure understanding. They are lost, but it is their right to be lost. No, they aren't. They are doing much less profound work. But you are right that that's not wrong per se. They just don't know what they are missing. Yes, philosophers can have smaller aims than God and there is utility to those smaller aims. For example, Vlad Vexler is a great political philosopher but totally clueless about God. Is he wrong? Not really. But also, he cannot even imagine what he's missing. I would never criticize him about his lack of understanding of God because he doesn't pretend to know. Jordan Hall presents Christianity is a valid path towards God. This is where I must come in to say that that is an advanced self-deception. The reason I exist is to tell people what they're missing, because they don't even know. If a Christian knew how much he was missing, he would drop Christianity immediately. But the mind is so closed that it will never know. You sorta just have to trust me that something huge is being missed. But of course you cannot know whether I'm right or wrong. In the end, no matter which teaching you follow, you have to trust that it will lead you somewhere higher than other teachings. There's no way around this problem. Christainity makes certain claims. I make alternative claims. Who is more right? Only you can figure that out.

I listened at 33:30 and no such thing was said. But even granting he said it, Jordan does not understand God. He has a nice theoretical abstraction it, which is precisely the danger I am pointing out. Just because he can speak about God being ineffable does not in any way mean he is conscious of what God is. And also, notice BTW, how Jordan Hall will now ally himself with the likes of Jordan Peterson and the right-wing thanks to his new Christian identity, showing exactly why mistakes at this level will also spill over into politics. Wilber doesn't understand that the Dao is ineffable and can't be formalized? Come on. Anyone in the Integral community can parrot such cliched profoundness. I'm unsure exactly what Wilber is conscious of, but it seems more than Jordan Hall. But I wouldn't say Wilber is fully conscious of God either. He's conscious of Nothingness which is not the same thing as I'm pointing to. Wilber is not a sacred cow here. He's just a great philosopher relative to Western philosophers, and guys like Jordan and Daniel owe a lot of their knowing to Wilber and the Integral community. They are like Wilber's children. Wilber was smart enough not to get seduced into converting to Christianity and then promoting it across the web. So what does that tell you? Nice try but no. There is no crisis for me here. These people did not understand God, with the exception of Hegel. Their level of understanding of reality is tiny. No! Zizek has no clue what God is. This is intellectual masturbation which is designed to obscure lack of understanding and substance. Zizek is a perfect example of philosophy turned into bullshit. The issue is not that I don't understand Zizek. I do not fully understand his confused mental ejaculations. The issue is that he would not understand me. See, if I fail to understand Zizek, virtually nothing is lost. But if he fails to understand me, Infinity is lost. That's the difference.

Cause Europe is going Green.

Crucial point.

That is not how podcasts work.

Rogan will not heavily edit a podcast, nor would I want that. That only feeds conspiracy theories.

I will after I finish my next retreat.

Dude, it doesn't just "happen". It has to be forced. The mind has to be whipped into submission. It will not go willingly. Torture your mind for 200hrs and it will start to rewire and change. Irrelevant. Meditation presents its own kinds of truths. Do it to enhance your perception of truth. Insight is good but there's more to this than insight.

You are kidding yourself. Even 30hrs of meditation is not serious enough really change consciousness. Just because you can silence the mind or recognize God does not mean that a 200hr retreat won't take your consciousness to a whole nother level. You are not some special unicorn that you can accomplish in 10 minutes what can be accomplished with a 200hr retreat.

It's hard to say. People have different goals and experiences.

I'm not good at being so calculating.

I got weeks of meditating to do!

I haven't made any final decision, just thinking out loud about it. It's an interesting cost-benefit analysis. I want to share the ideas as widely as I can but there may be such a thing as too wide. It's hard to anticipate people's reactions and sensitivities. It also depends a lot on how things are framed, and that's its own skill. I am not so good at gentle framing.

Serious things should only be discussed with serious people who have demonstrated that they are open and willing. Otherwise problems ensue.

Yup. Doesn't mean Clinton can embody it.

Calling it: One of Trump's idiots is gonna turn out to be a Putin spy for sure.

That analogy doesn't hold. The children are not deep down some ideological rabbit hole. And sex education is nothing like this work. For Rogan's audience to benefit from my ideas they would have to be willing to admit they are wrong about Covid, anti-vax, mainstream media, conspiracy theories, Trump, libertarianism, wokeness, post-modernism, etc. Which is not going to happen. They will instead react with a furious ego backlash.

Even they have to work to become wise and not screw everything up.

Anyone in the culture wars ends up radicalized. That's the price for using the culture wars for clicks. It takes a lot of integrity to not chase clicks.

He does not imply otherwise. However it's very easy to get seduced into thinking Christianity can be reformed and salvaged. Jordan does not pretend to be more than he is. However it's easy to think that his way of making sense of reality will work. It will not. Much more skepticism is needed towards all these Game B theorists. I see it becoming the next trap. I've spent a lot of time closely studying the flaws in their thinking.

Many many possibilities. Like deconstructing science to promote anti-vax delusions. Or using the reality of God to validate Christian Nationalism. The Rogan audience will not use my ideas to find truth, they will use it to double down on their biases because they are too lost down the epistemic swamp to admit of any wrongdoing. Rogan's audience has become much more radicalized since Covid alongside Rogan. The show ain't what it used to be. Bernardo Kastrup had a great analysis of these dangers, which at first I dismissed but now I see the wisdom in his position. Kastrup has a lot of integrity.

I've thought about it a lot and realized that it would be very dangerous to introduce my teachings to Joe's audience. The teachings can be misused by conspiracy minded people to justify whatever falsehoods they want. This is a much more tricky issue than it first appears. The commitment to truth just isn't there. These teachings are too serious to serve as mere entertainment.