"intimacy"

[Schizophonia]

Just now, Judy2 said:

when i'm underweight or healthy? 

this is the part that tends to confuse (and trigger) me. 

You look better when you're healthy, the photo in 2023.

Idk if it's that but you can also be cute, fragile even being normal or overweight. 

It's not like you need to be skinny to appear cute, and therefore attract, if not be perceived, that way; it's an illusion, if that's what you're looking for.
Otherwise, you can also try to detach yourself from this identity, this "type of emptiness" for something else.
For example, less "cute" and more "sexy."
Both are possible, even overlapping; you can play with several masks at once depending on the context.

 

[Judy2]

@Schizophonia ... 

idk. i have many thoughts on this. it's okay though.

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@Schizophonia ... 

idk. i have many thoughts on this. it's okay though.

Tell me if I trigger things, if you want details...

[Judy2]

@Schizophoniait's okay:) thank you

[Judy2]

@Schizophonia okay i do feel a little triggered. but it's kind of my own fault and i don't know if there's anything we can do about it.

i don't want to live like that anymore, but it hurts to be reminded that it worked. it worked better than anything else, anything i could say with words now. and still, in those moments no one was there and i had to save myself. it hurts to think that maybe i should have just waited longer and then someone would have come around to help me. in my experience, that never happened and i had to let go of it all by myself.

although i suppose there's the additional aspect that i have disorganised attachment so either i feel as though i depend on people saving me but never fully accept help, or i run from it and feel too vulnerable to let others help me. 

[Judy2]

13 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

acknowledging what's challenging/difficult:

• triggering thoughts about the ed and everything related to it - i mean it's also good to confront these emotions, but it's still challenging. part of me feels ugly and bad about myself. maybe when i think about how profound and "smart" the ed is, and i feel like i'm stupid and ugly for being the character who let go of embodying that and can now only theorise the profundity while looking ugly and being too stupid to engage in those behaviours...""".... like i said, it's challenging to confront all this. i feel ugly. i feel as though i'd be more beautiful and everything that is good about me would be more beautiful if i wasn't so stupid as to choose recovery. (this is where the split gets so intense that i project my disdain onto the bottom half of this list and tell myself "all those gratitudes are annulled by the fact that you're so ugly and bad now"....and i don't even feel that ugly today, but energetically it's still a thing...ugh...
• it's an odd thing, but recovery and health have been associated with guilt for a long time, and this keeps popping up sometimes. it hurts to be dealing with this.
• i feel guilt and like maybe i am doing something bad by trying to be healthy and nice to myself. i feel as though it might be bad of me to no longer hate myself and hurt myself. maybe people like me better and find me more beautiful when i'm mistreating myself. maybe i shouldn't have stopped doing that and it's bad of me that i try to heal and be healthy. maybe by doing that, i'm ruining any possibility of me ever being loved, or accepted, or good enough, or beautiful....ouch....why am i so stupid as to "confront all these thoughts and feelings" when maybe i could just accept the beauty of how it works when one lives as an overtly vulnerable, frail, fragile self? i feel stupid for being too lazy to keep hating myself. it feels bad to choose life, and health, and recovery. i'm really stupid for doing that.

 

[Judy2]

it feels wrong. why do i call it recovery from an eating disorder if it's not ill, if it is in fact the cultural norm for a woman to care about a certain beauty standard? and if it is in fact socially accepted as essentially feminine to put on a performance of weakness, to play victim, to depend on someone to save me?

isn't it stupid of me to start loving myself, if i should in fact keep waiting until someone loves me because i'm so good at hating myself? i was very good at that. 

but when i do that, people keep telling me how i got it wrong. yet, when i try to do it differently, it's also wrong.

this is difficult to deal with, psychologically.

[Judy2]

i feel angry at the world and the people who tell me to love myself and that i can only save myself, but when i do save myself it's also wrong because it's actually okay to want to be saved, but when i wanted to be saved and did a pretty good job putting myself in a position where i needed saving, no one was there and no one saw me. 

and then i hear 5 years later that i would have been saved, but i wasn't, and so maybe it was just stupid of me that i recovered all on my own. but really i hate people and i don't like anyone being too close to me anyway so it's not like i would have enjoyed being saved because that itself would have felt too vulnerable and unsafe...which is why i moved halfway across the country and away from everyone i knew, because i knew they'd only make me feel triggered and unsafe...but then even when i recovered i kept feeling unsafe and like i want someone to save me.

...or in other words, i'm weird, and there's some serious attachment trauma causing me to feel so conflicted, and that's a deeper underlying thing that is probably persistent in my psyche even beyond the realm of the ed.

 

@Schizophonia not angry at you:) just trying to understand/feel through the emotions.

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, Judy2 said:

"Imagine that you are a soul without a physical body. So you don't have any access to a body to determine whether you are safe, good enough, or a goddess. Begin to imagine how you would connect with a sense of safety, being good enough, and your inner goddess, without having a physical body as a reference point. (Dont try and figure this out with the mind, just allow yourself to be playful and feel into it.)"

this makes me confused because i am always fundamentally confused about whether i can be that good self or if i'm doomed to be the bad self that i fear i am deep down. (borderline...and maybe some vulnerable narcissistic traits, i was told.)

my soul is probably just as conflicted as me, cause i am my soul. and even if it's disembodied, it is carrying out the exact same strugges. the exact same desperation to achieve perfection and purity, the unwillingness to tolerate contrast. so there's not really much resolution to be found in thinking of this as non-physical, disembodied energy...because already, the theme of wanting to be weak and wanting to be saved has always gone far beyond physical appearance.

...but i re-read the task and it didn't ask if my soul was good, it said my soul is safe, good enough, and the inner goddess that i want it to be and that i sometimes feel it can be. so maybe i'll just have to take that as a given and feel into it from there, and note down the associations that arise.

Edited August 14 by Judy2

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

it worked better than anything else, anything i could say with words now.

Worked for what 

[Judy2]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Worked for what 

expressing that i feel weak and that i want to be protected and loved and taken care of. 

it also didn't work in other regards, for example the part where i'm able to fully participate in life. 

[Schizophonia]

27 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

i would have enjoyed being saved because that itself would have felt too vulnerable and unsafe...which is why i moved halfway across the country and away from everyone i knew, because i knew they'd only make me feel triggered and unsafe..

Can you explain what you mean by being in danger/vulnerable

27 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@Schizophonia not angry at you:) just trying to understand/feel through the emotions.

No pb eheh

[Judy2]

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Can you explain what you mean by being in danger/vulnerable

idk it's like when i'm fully here and not engaging in any form of dissociation, that's when people and life and conflict can really get at me. 

and the other part is that i think i uncovered a bit of an attachment paradox just now. that i desperately want to be saved but for that i need to get close to people and that in itself feels unsafe so i preferred saving myself and recovering without help when i was in that situation, but then i still felt unwell after that.

but you're right, technically it doesn't even make sense to say any of this because there's no actual danger. there's just a lot of perceived danger in life and in social interaction. emotional vulnerability, i suppose.

[Judy2]

@Schizophonia please don't feel obligated to respond to everything i wrote today:) i wrote most of that just because it came up and not to you in particular...and it's not your responsibility to help me deal with all this. 

i myself am getting a bit of a headache now cause all this was quite a lot to ponder.

[Schizophonia]

12 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@Schizophonia please don't feel obligated to respond to everything i wrote today:) i wrote most of that just because it came up and not to you in particular...and it's not your responsibility to help me deal with all this. 

i myself am getting a bit of a headache now cause all this was quite a lot to ponder.

I respond tomorrow 

 

I'm not forcing myself, I'm just curious. 
A mixture of savior syndrome when it comes to women, and my clairvoyant Inspector Gadget game.

I guess

Edited August 14 by Schizophonia

[Judy2]

maybe it is wrong that i am sharing so much of myself, my psyche, my deepest emotions online. 

[Judy2]

i'm scared that people are judging me and that what you guys see when you read all my ramblings is a whole lot of ugliness in my soul. a whole lot of egotism, obsession, dysfunction.

 

for the most part, what i share here, i share out of a deep fascination for existence and psychology, and my individual psychology is the most direct point of reference i have for this. this fascination also exists independent of whether my psyche is making me suffer, or whether i am successfully healing it. although i like to believe that so far, it has helped me survive and it will help me heal. 

i would also write the type of thoughts that i share here in a private journal - only that private journaling has come to feel a bit futile throughout the years. i don't care who reads this and who doesn't, but just the idea of "putting things out there" feels nice at times. 

i don't know if this makes sense, and what the objective moral judgement of my journalling situation is. 

all i know is that sometimes it does feel helpful to put things out there. 

 

 

also, about the fascination with psychology: i think it can be both a coping mechanism, an adaptation to traumatic events, and a useful skill in life. it can be both, and that's legitimate. i'm sure Leo's insistence on TRUTH is also not as pure as he portrays it at times, i'm sure there's a story of individual psychology that plays into this, more than he likes to admit - but this is not wrong, either. there are probably thousands of doctors and lawyers on this planet who found their calling based on past traumatic events. this doesn't take away from their purpose; if anything, it makes it more real. ...don't know if this articulates the point i'm trying to make. 

[Schizophonia]

13 hours ago, Judy2 said:

idk it's like when i'm fully here and not engaging in any form of dissociation, that's when people and life and conflict can really get at me. 

 

Can you give examples if you don't mind 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

i'm scared that people are judging me and that what you guys see when you read all my ramblings is a whole lot of ugliness in my soul. a whole lot of egotism, obsession, dysfunction.

Ditto

[Schizophonia]

I hope it doesn't trigger, but I would like to know if it says you something.

Indeed you may appear less "cute" in the photo you looks healthy in the sense that given that you are healthy, you appeal less "energetical charity"; you makes use want to save you less, because there isn't something to "save anymore".

  

The question then becomes how to attract attention, enjoy as a woman in general, without being in an emergency situation; and this strategy is adult female sexuality.

And it's there, in genital sexuality (in the sense of Freud's stage of psychosexual development), where there is the most pleasure, the most love.

That is to say, okay, when I see photos where you're skinny, I have a reflex to find you cute, to hug you, etc.; but that's poor, it's like giving 5 euros to a homeless person.

Whereas if you were healthy and this time you act more (you can always play with slightly childish postures; women are generally more like that anyway) in a mature way, that is to say, for example, by keeping a journal of yourself where you wear pretty dresses, where you smile, etc.
So here you'll be playing at a clearly higher energy level, but because this time people will want to hug you/caress you voraciously, make love to you, etc.

Sorry if I sound grievous, but in the end, we always come back to archaic, universal sexual issues.

I haven't read much about anorexia but I remember i read that it's essentially a fixation on childish strategies, which is in line with my idea.
Not necessarily prohibiting yourself from playing at "being saved," but adding more "voracious" masks to your persona that will make you tend towards a naturally "bigger" and healthier character; if what I'm saying makes sense.

A bit like with food when you leanr to eat more healthy: don't remove the pleasure foods you're attached to; just add salad on the side.

Edited August 15 by Schizophonia