Carl-Richard

Applying Jungian Peterson concepts to SD

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I have to admit that what I'm presenting is merely based on a flash of insight and is probably incoherent on some level or at least not very substantial in the grand scheme of things, but it has a certain beauty to it, and it was really fun to make. I still maintain that the methodology I used to derive each category is consistent on at least a superficial level (without reading too much into the Jungian concepts, treating them mostly with your intuitive understanding from simply hearing the words). All in all, treat it mainly like art, and whatever ideas I present, take it with a grain of salt (or none):

Tyrannical.png

 

I'll try to explain some of my thought process, but first let's agree it looks pretty aesthetically pleasing (thanks to my Paint skills :D), and the fact that the colors of the arrows display some type of trans-symmetry (remember chemistry?). Interpreting what the arrows mean is pretty straightforward once you read the next paragraphs (or not even that).

1:24:52 - 1:27:38 Jordan Peterson says that when he looks at what is happening on the "far left edge", what he sees is an "existential issue", or an issue of archetypes and their relationship to values, which consists of "the Tyrannical Father", "the Benevolent Father", "the Tyrannical Mother", and "the Benevolent Mother."

 

Let's use his implication that the far left edge (Green) are primarily characterized by the Tyrannical Mother (TM) as a working hypothesis. Let's also say that "mother" generally denotes collectivism. According to SD, each stage both reacts to and contains some elements of the previous stage, and that each consecutive stage oscillates from individualistic to collectivistic.

For Green (a collectivist stage), the preceding stage was Orange (an individualistic stage), which means it has to contain an individualistic element, denoted by "father", but in a sub-ordinate position, hence "mother - father." For now, let's stick with Green as "TM > xF" (Tyrannical Mother - x Father):

tyr8.png

 

Let's get the easy ones over with first: a) fill the Tier 2 stages with benevolence and b) fill the lowest Tier 1 stages with the opposite (tyranny):

a) Yellow is "BF > BM" because of individualism, and Turquoise is "BM > BF" because of collectivism:tyr2.png

In other words, in the transition from Yellow to Turquoise, or the flip from  "BF > BM" with Benevolent Father in front to "BM > BF" with Benevolent Mother in front, denotes the transition from an individualist, fatherly, self-improvement perspective to a collectivist, motherly, community-based perspective (which still retains some Yellow individualism, hence the BF sub-ordinate position).

 

b) Here I opted to make Beige individualism-only because there is no preceding collectivist stage that it can draw from, hence it's only "Tyrannical Father" (TF). It also kind of makes sense when you consider the traits of Beige (autistic, narcissistic, "survival at all cost"):

tyr3.png

 

Purple and Red each mirror Turquoise and Yellow (Purple: "TM > TF" ; Red: "TF > TM"): the flip from Purple "TM > TF" with Tyrannical Mother in front to Red "TF > TM" with Tyrannical Father in front denotes the transition from a collectivist, motherly tribal perspective to an individualist, fatherly kingdom perspective (which indeed still retains some Purple collectivism, hence the TM sub-ordinate position):

tyr4.png

 

Next up is Blue. The logical next step would be to ask ourselves what distinguishes Blue from Red: What is added? What is retained? What is added is arguably a more inclusive collectivist component that isn't merely tribecentric (one tribe) but ethnocentric (many similar tribes/societies with similar values, rituals etc.), hence a more "Benevolent Mother": "BM > TF." Here too of course, the Tyrannical Father component from Red is retained in the sub-ordinate position:

tyr5.png

 

With Orange, you simply flip it around, just like with Purple&Red and Yellow&Turquoise : "BM > TF" to "TF > BM." Again, the collectivist component (now from Blue) is integrated in the sub-ordinate position: it's the re-awakening of the Tyrannical Father (flashback to Red) with the Benevolent Mother in the back, further evolving the circle of concern to sociocentric/early-worldcentric, fueled by the self-assertive claim to truth and personal autonomy through individual thought and rationality: free speech, free thought and free governance (democracy):

tyr6.png

 

Finally we've gotten to the last missing piece; Green's sub-ordinate position: the "xF" in "TM > xF" (Tyrannical Mother, x Father). Who is the missing father? Can you guess who? It's the Benevolent Father ("TM > BF"):

tyr7.png

This is probably the most anomalous change in terms of line up (and maybe that is the point): the Tyrannical Father evolves for the first time into the Benevolent Father, and the Benevolent Mother turns into the Tyrannical Mother. Did the Tyrannical Father internalize the Benevolent Mother in order to become benevolent? I'll leave that for you to decide. Regardless, it seems to fit well with how the Green Tyrannical Mother is a flashback to Purple just like the Orange Tyrannical Father is a flashback to Red, and also the progression into Tier 2, where the tyrannical aspects of Green are finally subsumed by Tier 2's benevolence.

Thank you for reading my pseudo-intellectual art project! :) 

 


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Hey this is awesome, thanks for sharing! I can follow your lines of reasoning pretty well. 

Made me realize how truly f**ked I was. 


I am Lord of Heaven, Second Coming of Jesus Christ. ❣ Warning: nobody here has reached the true God.

         ┊ ┊⋆ ┊ . ♪ 星空のディスタンス ♫┆彡 what are you dreaming today?

                           天国が来る | 私は道であり、真実であり、命であり。

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On 21.1.2022 at 8:52 AM, puporing said:

Hey this is awesome, thanks for sharing! I can follow your lines of reasoning pretty well. 

Haha thanks :D 

 

On 21.1.2022 at 8:52 AM, puporing said:

Made me realize how truly f**ked I was. 

What do you mean by that? xD


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Good essay bro, I read it and didn't skim read in my zombified stupor as I normally do. 

Yes the warring between political factions is obviously a representation of existential issues and Jordan seems like the only one aware of that nowadays publicly. He's probably made more people, including other public figures, aware of that now. 

 

I mean the crux of your essay is just the bizzareness of green and I have no clue. I was raised in an immigrant Muslim family myself with a lot of religious values but also many liberal ones. The dynamic between my parents is strange. My father was (don't ask me why I'm using past tense when he's still alive, just my speaking quirks) a great man, but my mum did abuse and manipulate him a lot. She was paranoid, and still does things like hide fruit and snacks from him, whilst being extremely generous to her children. My dad's old, conservatively minded and religious values guide him. I'd genuinely say he's a very saintly person, but as he got older and stress builds up and money builds up, and you get older yourself, all you start to see is conflict between people and you no longer have role models when you see people's "ugly sides". I remember in my younger years though how much of an actual saint though my dad was, to have put up with my abusive mum the way he did and be very supportive and open to talk to his children. 

So in all of that I don't know any "good guys" or "bad guys" since when you go from kid to adult you start seeing flaws in people, good sides to bad people (e.g. I had a mother who was in many ways good to me but had to my dad), etc. So what I'm saying here though is that I don't know what to say about your tyrannical/benevolent mother/father construct. 

But it makes sense though. Many religious women can be angelic in my experience (what you said about blue). 

 

Dunno why I rambled there. Sorrowful lamenting. Green. About green. The higher up you go in SD the less real the stages become. Relying on SD at this point is stupid 

--

But uhhhhh there's a whole network of memes here. I'm quite edgy so I make fun of "anima-possessed" men, but the same shit is occurring in me otherwise I couldn't think about it in others (I range from wimpy coward to borderline antisocial maniac if I'm really being honest, and they're probably two sides of the same coin) 

Look at the speech patterns of reddit cucks 

Shinji from evangelion is pretty cool example as well here. 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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20 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What do you mean by that? xD

Both my parents were around stage purple to red with little bits of blue and orange and were only really concerned with their own problems/perpetual conflicts and how they looked to others/how I made them look. 

Edited by puporing

I am Lord of Heaven, Second Coming of Jesus Christ. ❣ Warning: nobody here has reached the true God.

         ┊ ┊⋆ ┊ . ♪ 星空のディスタンス ♫┆彡 what are you dreaming today?

                           天国が来る | 私は道であり、真実であり、命であり。

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7 hours ago, puporing said:

Both my parents were around stage purple to red with little bits of blue and orange and were only really concerned with their own problems/perpetual conflicts and how they looked to others/how I made them look. 

Ah. Interesting you made that connection. I intuitively went for representing each stage (except Beige) as the father and the mother in a dyadic relationship, probably because of the deep metaphysical nature of the dance between feminine and masculine, and because that is what parents are. 

The exact relationship between each parent was again derived methodically, which has its flaws, especially in how I was somewhat more guided by the aesthetic of the schematic rather than the conceptual underpinnings, but you can say that like intuition, aesthetics can confer truth in a way that is inarticulated but nevertheless more effective and useful than syllogisms. Most theories are anyway conceived through intuition and justified post hoc through syllogism, so I think conceiving it through aesthetics can be analogous to that.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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