Trauma

[RickyFitts]

4 hours ago, Hulia said:

Then what is the difference between enmeshment and non-enmeshment?

I don't know nearly enough about the subject to be able to offer an informed comment, sorry!

[Gianna]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:21 PM, Hulia said:

I am terribly sorry

It's okay @Hulia thank you for clearing up the confusion <3 

 

On 9/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, RickyFitts said:

I think with enmeshment the other person is still regarded as separate and distinct from you, whereas with love it's recognised that you're one and the same, that your heart is their heart.

Yes! This is great. @RickyFitts
 

On 9/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, Hulia said:

what is the difference between enmeshment and non-enmeshment?

Here is the short answer: 
enmeshment = 1 into 1
love = 2 into 1

Here is the long answer: 

The easiest way to understand enmeshment is to look at how it occurs in childhood. In this instance, the parent enmeshes themselves with the kid by turning the kid into them. When a parent molds a child into themself (the parent) instead of letting the child unravel into the unique being that they are (like a flower) it creates serious detriment and dysfunction in the kid. So ask yourself, is this loving? The answer is that it might have meant to be loving. But true Love holds 2 together in 1 (like the ying yang). Not making, focing, or molding 1 into 1 (redundancy). 

Here is a picture that illustrates enmeshment: 

 

Enmeshed children will most likely grow up with identity disorders. Because their parents interfered with their development process (by making 1 into 1). The child was never able to form themselves. They were never able to unfold into their unique individuality. Instead, they were 'enmeshed' or molded into the parent, into what the parent wanted them to be, or, into what the parent wanted to be themselves but couldn't.  

These kids will grow up not knowing who they really are, what they really want, what they feel and don't feel, or what they need. They won't know how to make decisions. They will turn to others (powerlessness). They won't be able to pick a suitable partner (Love) because they don't know what's right for them because they don't even know themselves. They will have to start from ground zero when reformulating themselves in a true and authentic way. 

Do you see how unloving it is to force one into one? How uncaring and even selfish it is? 

Unity is love. But remember, you can still be united and have both of the uniqueness of each being brought into the ONE that is the bond that you form. Again, like the ying-yang. The ying and the yang bring out the best in each other because they reflect each other by being opposite. They each bring their own uniqueness to form ONE that is bigger and better than them (synergy) but still expresses the uniqueness of each.

God is not interested in redundancy. God is not interested in making one into one (1=1). God is interested in the dance of two. The dance symbolizing ONE and the two symbolizing uniqueness and individuality. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Gianna

[Gianna]

Btw, I know I'm blonde and cute but this picture was not my childhood. JUST SAYING! lolol. 
toddlers and tiaras is some scary business. 

[Hulia]

@Gianna My mother is a capricorn -  a stubborn manipulative devil. Never await love from capricorns, they´ll find thousand reasons and long and boring explanations. They´ll create volumes of concepts and theories. 

I remember, when I was 16 or something, she told me to wash my hair, but I didn´t. I didn´t feel like wanting to wash my hair. We girls are peculiar about our hair, sometimes we want to wash it eagerly and sometimes not. 

Next day she was like a mourning shadow, all pale and sighing and not talking. An then: "Don´t you even want to know why I am feeling that bad? YOU did it to me. I was crying the whole night, because for the 1st time you simply told "no" to me"

How sick is it?

As a child I had to appologize every single day for something. Though she says, I was stubborn and rearly did the appologizing. I don´t remember exactly. But yes I remember her coming into my room: "Is it so difficult to say "sorry"? But I am you mother, I will endure anything from you... (sad smile of a saint)... any injustice and hurting - anything, because I love you much more than you will ever do" I think it was misunderstanding. She was waiting for appologies and me.. I thought, she delibarately avoided me and didn´t speak to me, because she didn´t like me, since I was constantly making her feel bad. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Hulia

[Hulia]

I felt good in the presence of my mother - safe and secure. Because she knew everything about everything and even more, she was never wrong and always right (her own words). Besides she always stressed that she would do anything for me, because she loved me more than antybody else. But I didn´t feel (feel) a kind of warmth or tenderness like I perceived it  from my aunt for exampe (oh my god, I should tell it to her! but she never let me talk bombarding me with her silly advices  how to be anything in this life but not her)

If my mother loved me so much, why she never bothered how I felt? It was always her, her, her. Hurt and mistreteated. Punishing me by ignoring and not talking. And then telling how bad she felt. And me?

[Hulia]

But the main message I have to bring to my aunt: "SWITH OFF THE FUCKING TV"

"Oh I don´t watch it, I have it just for the background not to feel alone and not to think all that depressing thoughts"

Say what you want, but what is the point of a big and beautiful heart if your nature is weak and surrending...  A lot of damage

Edited September 10, 2021 by Hulia

[RickyFitts]

3 hours ago, Gianna said:

Btw, I know I'm blonde and cute but this picture was not my childhood. JUST SAYING! lolol. 
toddlers and tiaras is some scary business. 

I can honestly say that that thought never even crossed my mind!  

You're not wrong though, that's some seriously disturbing shit right there, fuck me  

[Gianna]

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

My mother enmeshed all of us in one way or another,

You should read this book I am reading. It is really important to cultivate awareness around the effects of enmeshment. 

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

My mother used to verbally and physically smack me around a bit for minor transgressions and emotionally gaslight me when I didn't 'perform' for her

Being enmeshed with a critical or neglectful parent is seriously damaging. As is being enmeshed with a sexualizing parent, a "best friend" type of parent, a parent who relies on you for emotional needs, or a parent who puts you in the role of "surrogate spouse". Any enmeshment is damaging, but these are the most common.

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

It takes us a bit of time when we're left to our own devices to contextualise potentiality and growth for our own betterment

Kids who grew up enmeshed have a very ill-proportioned estimate of their own abilities. Reliable feedback goes a long way for them– so they know their own estimate. Oftentimes, when a child is enmeshed by a critical parent they will push themselves to the death to succeed. Because their parents pushed them. They push themselves without appreciating their success, without even realizing they are already the best. Or, if they were pushed by their parents without rewards as a child, they will have low motivation for discipline– discipline threatens them because they were pushed/controlled so invasively in childhood. It will be hard for them to commit. Hard for them to not waver. Both of these extremes are dysfunctional and detrimental to the human psyche and wider spirit.

 

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

just the simple act of traveling back in time in our minds can quickly lead our being to rehearse old feelings and therefore old traumas pretty quickly if we're not versed in emotionally reparenting ourselves in these situations.

Yes. I notice I get quite angry when I am interfered with, controlled, or even distracted. I have a tight grasp over my individuality which I need to learn to loosen and open myself up to others. But it is extremely difficult to do when you have been hurt this way in the past. 

 

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

 I'm not sure if you've done much reading or practice in this area of reparenting but the act has been invaluable for myself personally.

I haven't looked into reparenting; although, I am studying the trauma itself. But I think studying reparenting is the most critical piece. Maybe at the end of the book I am reading now it will go over how to reparent enmeshed conditioning. 
 

3 hours ago, lxlichael said:

it fragments us and creates a future we have to learn to heal from and turn into more wisdom than regret (unresolved guilt...) we had no control over when we were younger.

So wise. 

[Gianna]

3 hours ago, Hulia said:

Next day she was like a mourning shadow, all pale and sighing and not talking. An then: "Don´t you even want to know why I am feeling that bad? YOU did it to me. I was crying the whole night, because for the 1st time you simply told "no" to me"

Oh wow, this is a huge sign of enmeshment. You should also read the book I am reading on enmeshment. Not only is that not acknowledging your truth (that you didn't want to wash your hair) it also did not allow for individuality, and it violated an emotional boundary for children. You cannot expect your children to emotionally support a parent. They do not have the capability to manage a parent's emotions. It is the parent who needs to meet the emotional needs of the child, not the other way around. 

When kids are burdened with that kind of responsibility (emotional support of a parent) they are put in a bind because while they need their parent for survival, they cannot attend to their needs without ridding their own. Their childhood will end prematurely. They will either look down on 'less mature kids' or think that they are above them. Either way, this robs them of the feeling of 'belonging' in their social group and they don't even realize it. 

 

3 hours ago, Hulia said:

As a child I had to appologize every single day for something. Though she says, I was stubborn and rearly did the appologizing. I don´t remember exactly. But yes I remember her coming into my room: "Is it so difficult to say "sorry"?

I am sorry you had to deal with this. There is nothing more hindering than an emotionally immature parent. 

 

2 hours ago, Hulia said:

I felt good in the presence of my mother - safe and secure. Because she knew everything about everything and even more, she was never wrong and always right (her own words). Besides she always stressed that she would do anything for me, because she loved me more than antybody else. But I didn´t feel (feel) a kind of warmth or tenderness like I perceived it  from my aunt for exampe

Yeah, I totally understand. 

 

2 hours ago, Hulia said:

If my mother loved me so much, why she never bothered how I felt? It was always her, her, her. Hurt and mistreteated. Punishing me by ignoring and not talking. And then telling how bad she felt. And me?

You see how enmeshment ≠ love ? 

[Gianna]

1 hour ago, Hulia said:

"Oh I don´t watch it, I have it just for the background not to feel alone and not to think all that depressing thoughts"

 

Tell her she needs to sit with her depressing thoughts!! 

[Gianna]

15 minutes ago, lxlichael said:

get back to you on everything else. This is great, thank you.

please do  and yay! no problem. 

[Gianna]

1 hour ago, RickyFitts said:

I can honestly say that that thought never even crossed my mind!  

You're not wrong though, that's some seriously disturbing shit right there, fuck me  

Good!  Haha. And yeah right.. lol. 

[Hulia]

@Gianna THank you, but I won´t read this book. I don´t think, I´ll learn something new. It is as it is. We all have to live with our traumas - small and big. A kindergarden was a hell for me, I had 0 friends, I was just sitting on the floor, looking at the watch and waiting till my parents come to pick me up. At school it has become better anyway.

My mom has to cope with worse traumas. She was the oldest child with both parents working and constant lack of money and everything. With a sister needing special treatment because of her heart desease and a brother almost never at home, avoiding unhealthy familiy situation with the gangs on the street. Divorce of her parents when she was 4. A stepfather, who sexually harassed her, not in a violent way but still annoying. My grandma never loved him, she married him, because she had nowhere to live with a small daughter and he´s just built a house. Nobody ever took care of my mom´s emotions or each other´s emotions (except of my deseased aunt). So mom just wanted to raise a child who would take care, but instead.. a mess as always.

My aunt is not happy about her upbringing neither . It was a hell for her when she entered a real life. Grandma divorced her father, married another one and moved away. So did my mother. She has been left alone with a small child, a drug-addicted brother and a husband who turned out to be an alcoholic. She was even in a kind of psychological treatment not because of psychological issues (there wasn´t such a thing at that time) but because of physical outcome of psychological issues like paralysis of different body parts.